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View Full Version : Decisions.....feel free to disagree with me :)



tupperwarequeen
11-04-2007, 07:04 AM
OK, I know that a lot of people will probably disagree with me on this one, but I have done a lot of research and had a big think, talked to a lot of people, including my vet, and I have decided to use a homeopathic vaccination this year, rather than the conventional method.

Basically I am posting this because I know that some other people on the forum use this method but don't make it widely known.
I know that there have been terrible outbreaks of disease in some areas, and whether conventionally or homeopathically vaccinated, bunnies have still passed to Rainbow Bridge.
I have had a long chat with my vet, I had concerns last year as Smokie had a horrible reaction to VHD, and I was really concerned about it. He was very honest, and said that recently (the last couple of years) they have seen increasing numbers of vaccinated bunnies sucumming to the diseases. I am uneasy about subjecting them to vaccination if its not really effective any more. I asked him if it was technique, he said he didnt think so, as he had treated bunnies from various vet practices (ours is one of only 2 offering 24 hour care in this area). He said (in his opinion) that if there was a virulent strain, it would be unlikely that any vaccination would protect the buns, and he thinks that the strains are mutating and so that is why the traditional vaccinations are not as effective. We discussed the fact that buns in generally good health, regularly monitored and checked, should be able to fight off milder strains of myxi, especially as the main reason wild bunnies die of myxi is that it stops them eating, whereas obviously if I noticed my buns were off their food I would intervene.
I know that whatever treatment is used, its never 100% guaranteed, and so for me and my buns, I feel I have made the best decision.

I have not posted this to cause any upset or even debate, but really just to let anyone who is interested know.

woodstock
11-04-2007, 07:15 AM
out of interest, can you do both? (traditional and homeopathically)

My personal opinion is to go with traditional as I have little to no knowledge of homeopathy, and trust traditional more than an unknown. What does it involve?

Jack's-Jane
11-04-2007, 07:16 AM
Hi Sally

I too have researched the use of Homeopathic Vaccination and have consulted a Vet who is also Qualified in Homeopathy. She said that the ONLY thing she would never use Homeopathic Treatment for INSTEAD of conventional treatment is Vaccinations. She gave a rather complicated explanation as to why which too be honest was somewhat above my head :oops:

As things currently stand and from the information I have obtained so far I still believe that conventional vaccine is the best way to protect my Bunnies. I will, however, continue to research and review.

Janex

tupperwarequeen
11-04-2007, 07:18 AM
I don't see why you can't do both, the homeopathic method involves giving the buns a tablet every so often called a nosode. This is what one of them is

What Is A Nosode? In homeopathy, there is a special type of remedy called a nosode. A nosode (from nosos, the Greek word meaning disease) is a homeopathic preparation made from matter from a sick animal or person. Substances such as respiratory discharges or diseased tissues are used. It sounds repulsive, but the preparation, using alcohol, as well as the repeated dilution and succussion, essentially renders the substances harmless, while producing a powerful remedy. The use of nosodes in a prophylactic manner, for preventing disease, has been employed in veterinary and human homeopathy for many years. It is supported by various holistic veterinarians and authors

Spacegirl
11-04-2007, 07:23 AM
Is there any independant research into the effectivenedss of the homeopathic versions and, if so, what are the success rates that they show? How do they compare to the protection of traditional vaccines?
Where did you find your information from?

Gem
11-04-2007, 07:25 AM
I've thought about it but never got further than thinking about it really, not so confident with my vets after loosing my buns :(

Might ask my other vets when I take the others for their VHD's in a couple of weeks :?

For me, I don't know enough about it to be confident in giving a Homeopathic vaccine...yet

But then again I don't have much faith in traditional vaccines now :oops:

I think I'm at a loss as to what potentially would be best :?

Beebop
11-04-2007, 07:26 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but did someone on here not have an awful time with VHD/Myxi and all their buns were done homopathically?
I guess the same could be said for traditional methods though....its a tough decision, so no one can really say its a bad/better idea compared to traditional methods. I just wish there was a way to irradicate the disease! :(

tupperwarequeen
11-04-2007, 07:29 AM
Is there any independant research into the effectivenedss of the homeopathic versions and, if so, what are the success rates that they show? How do they compare to the protection of traditional vaccines?
Where did you find your information from?

As far as I could discover, there is no conclusive research on comparative effectiveness. Most reports are anecdotal.

I did lots of internet searching, some of the links are here :

http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/Immunization/NOSODES.htm

http://www.homestead.com/VonHapsburg/whatisanosode.html

http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/view,49

http://www.heilkunst.com/homeo_immun.pdf

http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/

OK, there were more, they are just the ones still in my history (hubby makes me clear my cache every week :lol: :lol: )

tupperwarequeen
11-04-2007, 07:33 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but did someone on here not have an awful time with VHD/Myxi and all their buns were done homopathically?

thats true, but as I said, I also know people, and the vet said too, that conventially vacced buns have also been lost to the disease.



its a tough decision, so no one can really say its a bad/better idea compared to traditional methods. I just wish there was a way to irradicate the disease! :(

I completely agree!!!!

Spacegirl
11-04-2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks for the links . . will have a look at those when I get some time :)

CottonMather
11-04-2007, 08:22 AM
I know nothing about the homeopathic versions of the vaccinations... but from what I have read here (about the nosodes) and from what I already know about immunology... both methods aim to introduce the antigen (either VHD or Myxi, in an inactive form) to the immune system... from what I gather, the homeopathic version does this via ingestion and the traditional version does this via injection - the only difference that I can see is that the injected form is more likely to reach white blood cells (of the immune system), and would do so quicker and be less damaged by the process than the ingested form...
that's the impression I get from reading this thread only... off to do more research, but until I am strongly persuaded otherwise, I am going to go for the traditional approach.

Azraelm
11-04-2007, 08:36 AM
I would be interested in using them if they are proven as effective as the vaccination, as I hate the thought bunns must have suffered to produce the vaccine when it was tested on them :cry:

fluffiebunnie
11-04-2007, 09:22 AM
I dont think "alternative" medicines are any good. Just my opinion.

colliewoman
11-04-2007, 10:40 AM
i'll dig out the info if anyone wants it, but.....

according to hahnemann in his 6th organon, nosodes are for the prevention of disease *whilst in an epidemic* situation only.

i am a 10000000% believer in homeopathy, by the way :wink:

i will also add that i dont believe a vaccine 'runs out' 365 days after the booster was done. i believe that once an immune response has been created, in the absence of chemo etc the body will remain immune.
levels of protection are measure by titre testing. the test only shows what antibodies are circulating in the blood at the time of the test. it doesnt show if the animal has formed the memory cells in the bone marrow from which a future immune response will be launched. (i do hope i have written that correctly, i am very tired)

i personally go for minimal vaccines with my animals. some that means no vaccines at all, others it is what i believe they are most in danger of.
i am a firm believer in the effects of vaccine damage too.

research, research, research then make your choice doing what you truly believe is best for you animals xx

honeybunny
11-04-2007, 10:48 AM
I'm afraid I would only use homeopathic on top of traditional vacs..for added protection...All the trusted vets I have spoken to.. since Su lost 2 of her buns to VHD who were homeopathically vacs....have said they are not to be relied upon in the vaccination field..
So i would strongly urge people to continue with the traditional vaccine.

kayjay
11-04-2007, 10:49 AM
Seeing the heartbreak that Su (cannonwoman) has gone through over the past few weeks with her homepathically vaccinated buns dying from vhd I think anyone doing that must be mad - just my opinion of course!!

What I've observed is that it's often members with quite a few rabbits who pursue this, presumably there's a cost factor involved too (not saying this is you at all, just what I've seen). If it is often done homepathically due to the sheer number of rabbits they own/foster/rescue then maybe few buns could mean they are properly vaccinated.

Good luck to you, I hope vhd or myxi don't catch your buns and if it does the homeopathic vaccines work, but I'm not convinced at all :?

Gem
11-04-2007, 11:17 AM
Again I believe in homeopathic meds in humans, I use a lot myself but I'm not convinced they would work for the animals.

I guess it's like humans, some it will work for and some it won't.

But as has been stated already for some the traditional vaccines don't work either :?

So either way could be a loose loose situation

TheGaffer
11-04-2007, 11:20 AM
I'm not sold on homeopathy for people never mind for animals!!!
The whole concept is just so ridiculus!!

I actually did an internet search not long ago for homeopathy in vetinary care, vaccs etc, and found nothing, not one single bit of research! Obviously that doesn't mean none exists, but there's nothing published on the web that is specifically aimed at rabbits and vaccinations.

But, I am a nurse and I'm a firm believer in medicine.

At the end of the day, if there was a homeopathic MMR for kids, I'd opt for the traditional vacc every time. I wouldn't risk my childs health, and I wouldn't risk my rabbit's.

Sorry, just my opinion.

Nicola

Gem
11-04-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm not sold on homeopathy for people never mind for animals!!!
The whole concept is just so ridiculus!!

I actually did an internet search not long ago for homeopathy in vetinary care, vaccs etc, and found nothing, not one single bit of research! Obviously that doesn't mean none exists, but there's nothing published on the web that is specifically aimed at rabbits and vaccinations.

But, I am a nurse and I'm a firm believer in medicine.

At the end of the day, if there was a homeopathic MMR for kids, I'd opt for the traditional vacc every time. I wouldn't risk my childs health, and I wouldn't risk my rabbit's.

Sorry, just my opinion.

Nicola

This is one of those cases that we're going to have to agree to disagree on, it's an individual thing, you're always going to get people that swear by Homeopathic stuff and never go to a doctor, just the same as you'll always get people who are at the doctors for every little thing.... my gran being one of them :roll:

I don't know, maybe using it in conjuction with the traditional vacs, maybe that would give better protection than just a traditional vac?

Inimical Me
11-04-2007, 12:47 PM
If homeopathy was anywhere near as good as clinical treatment, we we'd never have developed modern medicine.

If I wasn't going to vaccinate with a traditional vaccine, I would save my money and not bother at all because IMO, the protection from disease would be the same.

I wouldn't entirely rule out homeopathic remedies, but not for life and death situations.

kayjay
11-04-2007, 06:57 PM
I've used homeopathy for my son when he was little as a friend was training as a homeopath. I used it for conjunctivitis, ear infections and minor ailments and I have to say it worked brilliantly. He used to get a lot of ear infections but the remedies soon cleared it up without antibiotics and arnica is brilliant for bumps and bruises. So I'm not a non believer at all, but I see it as complimentary, so if my bun (or child) got an illness I'd use it to relieve symptoms alongside conventional medicine but I wouldn't rely on it totally for illness prevention or cure

Jack's-Jane
11-04-2007, 07:51 PM
Seeing the heartbreak that Su (cannonwoman) has gone through over the past few weeks with her homepathically vaccinated buns dying from vhd I think anyone doing that must be mad - just my opinion of course!!


But what about poor Gem and her conventionally Myxo Vaccinated Buns who went on to get Myxo and did not make it :cry: :cry: :cry:

I still say I am sticking with conventional vaccine for now but will never close my mind to alternatives should I find enough evidence to support their use. People do seem to forget that vaccines have side-effects which may, over time, cause more of a problem to the animal than any protection from disease. There is certainly evidence of over-vaccination in dogs............

One thing I have learned since having Bunnies is the minute you say 'I'd never do that' you find yourself in a situation where 'doing that' is the most appropriate course of action!! :roll:

Janex

Caz
11-04-2007, 09:09 PM
Seeing the heartbreak that Su (cannonwoman) has gone through over the past few weeks with her homepathically vaccinated buns dying from vhd I think anyone doing that must be mad - just my opinion of course!!


But what about poor Gem and her conventionally Myxo Vaccinated Buns who went on to get Myxo and did not make it :cry: :cry: :cry:

I still say I am sticking with conventional vaccine for now but will never close my mind to alternatives should I find enough evidence to support their use. People do seem to forget that vaccines have side-effects which may, over time, cause more of a problem to the animal than any protection from disease. There is certainly evidence of over-vaccination in dogs............

One thing I have learned since having Bunnies is the minute you say 'I'd never do that' you find yourself in a situation where 'doing that' is the most appropriate course of action!! :roll:

Janex

But with mxyi even the manufacturers say the vaccination may not prevent them completely catching the disease but should mean they survive (myxi is a fast mutating virus so the vaccine may be "out of date" for the strains circulating in your area but still give partial immunity as the virus retains some conserved features).

I am not aware of any conventially vaccinated VHD bunnies getting VHD but do know of two seperate homeopathically vaccinated groups of buns that got it and at least one set of un-boosted/vaccinated buns (owner did myxi but couldn't afford VHD and was saving up to get them done when they were hit).

Caz

kayjay
11-04-2007, 09:33 PM
If I were to homepathically vaccinate against anything it would be myxi not vhd as I understand vhd gives total protection but myxi doesn't. If my vaccinated buns got myxi I would pts anyway so I'm hoping they just don't get it - I do have my doubts over the myxi vacc as you hear of quite a few still getting it. In humans if we vaccinated against diptheria but some kids still got it there would be an outcry wouldn't there :?

anon101
11-04-2007, 09:39 PM
What amazes me is that people seem to think that as soon as there has been an outbreak of myxie/VHD in homeopathicaly vaccinated rabbits they immediately say its a load of rubbish and you should use traditional vaccines. They seem to think homeopathy should be 100% effective.

But there has been many many more cases of TRADITIONAL VACCINATED rabbits getting these diseases but people see that as bad luck or keep putting it down to the fact the vaccines aren't 100% effective. They don't for one minute question whether they should keep vaccinating this way.

I've been using homeopathy on my rabbits/dogs/cats for over four years now. We've lived in three different areas and not once have we had an outbreak of a disease. Yes I'm sure people will say this is just good luck but I truly believe it works.

For those who want to know how homeopathy works do your own research. There's masses of information on the internet. If you look yourself you can make an unbiased opinion. If you don't like it that's fine but I wish people would stop implying we are stupid for treating our animals this way and that we are putting them at risk.

Its human nature that if we don't understand something we tend to be negative about it.

Oh and if people think that we don't traditional vaccinate due to expense they should look at my vet bill for the last year. :roll: :lol:

Louise

SOAD
11-04-2007, 09:59 PM
I would never use homeopathy treatment over other stuff, Ozzy had some homeopathy treatment as well as reiki when he had bone cancer, but that was on top of his treat ment that he had the vets.

I believe the cylap vaccione to be 100%? I would never comprise my buns/fosters or rescues with anything that I would consider to give less protection. As far as the mxy goes, I wrote a letter of complain to my vet because I felt they were doing it wrong, they now do it part in the ear to keep me happy. I wouldn't do homeopathy instead of, but as well as is worth looking into. I've used homeopathy pasterella vaccine type thingy as there is no vaccine avaliable for it, but if there was I would use that instead :oops:

BirdieBun
11-04-2007, 10:27 PM
I wouldnt use homeopathic vaccine treatment no way - how many buns on RU have we known die from VHD that are vacciented? Not 1 - and this will probably make me even more hated but I am not 100% convinced that all people on RU that have lost buns to myxi DID actually have their buns vaccinated sorry just my opinion :oops:

SOAD
11-04-2007, 11:05 PM
Is there any independant research into the effectivenedss of the homeopathic versions and, if so, what are the success rates that they show? How do they compare to the protection of traditional vaccines?
Where did you find your information from?

As far as I could discover, there is no conclusive research on comparative effectiveness. Most reports are anecdotal.

I did lots of internet searching, some of the links are here :

http://www.naturalrearing.com/J_In_Learning/Immunization/NOSODES.htm

http://www.homestead.com/VonHapsburg/whatisanosode.html

http://nationalcenterforhomeopathy.org/articles/view,49

http://www.heilkunst.com/homeo_immun.pdf

http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/

OK, there were more, they are just the ones still in my history (hubby makes me clear my cache every week :lol: :lol: )

The only thing that would worry me about those links is that, they're written by practicing homotheropy people and pro-homotheropy sites, they're not going to give the downside to it.

good luck with it though :D

anon101
11-04-2007, 11:08 PM
I know several people who have lost rabbits to VHD when they had been vaccinated.

I would be extremely surprised if any manufacture guaranteed their vaccine offered 100% protection. :?

Louise

BirdieBun
11-04-2007, 11:10 PM
I know several people who have lost rabbits to VHD when they had been vaccinated.

I would be extremely surprised if any manufacture guaranteed their vaccine offered 100% protection. :?

Louise

Really? You actually know of vaccinated buns that have died from VHD? I find that very hard to believe :o

SOAD
11-04-2007, 11:11 PM
I know several people who have lost rabbits to VHD when they had been vaccinated.

I would be extremely surprised if any manufacture guaranteed their vaccine offered 100% protection. :?

Louise

Really omg, don't tell me that it gives me something else to worry about :lol: . I personally would stick to original vaccine, but I don't know enough about the other to be confident, plus I would probably get it wrong with dosage and stuff :oops: .

I'm not slagging people that use it though, it's just not for me :D

CrazyBun
11-04-2007, 11:12 PM
There is no scientifically acceptable evidence that homeopathic treatments work (over and above the placebo effect, which is nevertheless a real effect). In my opinion, people who do not conventionally vaccinate their animals because they believe that they are protected by homeopathy are being misled.

People can tell you the exact effectiveness of the conventional myxi vaccination. It is not 100%. Nobody can tell you the exact effectiveness of the homepathic vaccinations. By only vaccinating your rabbit homepathically you are risking rejecting a let's say 80% (I don't know the real figure) effective vaccination for one that is quite possibly 0% effective.

If something is completely, 100% without side effects (as many people think complementary medicine is), then it is probably completely and 100% without any effects, including the beneficial ones the user wanted.

Tupperware queen is in a particularly difficult situation, as her rabbit reacted badly to the VHD vaccination. I don't know what the bad side-effects were, but she clearly has to make a difficult decision. If all her other rabbits are vaccinated conventionally, and all other rabbits in the area are vaccinated convetionally, then her sensitive bunny will get some protection from herd immunity (ie, few rabbits around will be getting VHD). I don't think that her dilemma should in any way affect the way people treat their non-sensitive rabbits though.

sgprescue
11-04-2007, 11:13 PM
What amazes me is that people seem to think that as soon as there has been an outbreak of myxie/VHD in homeopathicaly vaccinated rabbits they immediately say its a load of rubbish and you should use traditional vaccines. They seem to think homeopathy should be 100% effective.

But there has been many many more cases of TRADITIONAL VACCINATED rabbits getting these diseases but people see that as bad luck or keep putting it down to the fact the vaccines aren't 100% effective. They don't for one minute question whether they should keep vaccinating this way.

I've been using homeopathy on my rabbits/dogs/cats for over four years now. We've lived in three different areas and not once have we had an outbreak of a disease. Yes I'm sure people will say this is just good luck but I truly believe it works.

For those who want to know how homeopathy works do your own research. There's masses of information on the internet. If you look yourself you can make an unbiased opinion. If you don't like it that's fine but I wish people would stop implying we are stupid for treating our animals this way and that we are putting them at risk.

Its human nature that if we don't understand something we tend to be negative about it.

Oh and if people think that we don't traditional vaccinate due to expense they should look at my vet bill for the last year. :roll: :lol:

Louise

I totally agree. I personally find my bunnies are a lot healthier using homeopathic vacc's. I see no end of people posting on this board who have conventionally vacc'd rabbits and they have developed no end of health problems, something I dont see in my bunnies. One of the side effects of conventional vacc's is digestive problems, how many people reading this have had problems with bloat in their bunnies? something I very rarely get here ;). In the time I have been doing rescue (4 years ;)) I have heard of hundreds of cases of conventionally vacc'd bunnies developing myxi compared to only a couple with homeopathic vacc. Some people seem to forget that you will never get a vaccine that is 100% guaranteed to work. Dont knock something you know nothing about :thumb:. The people who say they would never use homeopathic or are convinced they wont work are the ones that havent done enough research. A lot of vets will only recommend conventional vacc as thats the only one they know enough about and use regularly.
On average I have around 25 - 30 rabbits here at any one time and it is rare for me to get one become ill, in fact the majority of my vet bills are neutering and dental work.
From experience I have seen my bunnies are far better off with homeopathic vaccines, I dont force my views on anyone, we all have to make our own choices. I often get the rescue bunnies conventionally vacc if their new owner requests it but I will continue to use homeopathic on my residents.

sgprescue
11-04-2007, 11:15 PM
I know several people who have lost rabbits to VHD when they had been vaccinated.

I would be extremely surprised if any manufacture guaranteed their vaccine offered 100% protection. :?

Louise

Really? You actually know of vaccinated buns that have died from VHD? I find that very hard to believe :o

Yes Carys, it does happen, the VHD vaccine is not 100% guaranteed :wink:

BirdieBun
11-04-2007, 11:17 PM
I know several people who have lost rabbits to VHD when they had been vaccinated.

I would be extremely surprised if any manufacture guaranteed their vaccine offered 100% protection. :?

Louise

Really? You actually know of vaccinated buns that have died from VHD? I find that very hard to believe :o

Yes Carys, it does happen, the VHD vaccine is not 100% guaranteed :wink:

Gosh well I am shocked, have not known anyone on here have VHD vaccs buns die :shock:

How do you know the buns wouldnt get ill if they didnt have the conventional vaccine though? I mean I wouldnt take the risk to try and prove that scenario wrong as I wouldn't choose anything else other than conventional vaccines.

TBH this may sound harsh but I would rather lose my bun to a bad reaction to the vaccs than let them actually contract myxi and watch them suffer with it :cry:

SOAD
11-04-2007, 11:18 PM
I lost Marley to bloat, but I don't think it was due to his vaccine :cry: :cry: :cry:

BirdieBun
11-04-2007, 11:19 PM
I lost Marley to bloat, but I don't think it was due to his vaccine :cry: :cry: :cry:

No mateit wouldnt have been, same as Little Man deep jaw bone abcess wouldn't have been caused by his vaccine which would have been due any time now :?

Phill
11-04-2007, 11:19 PM
After loosing 10 of my bunch to VHD when they weren't vaccinated and then seeing the heartache Su went through with her homeopathicaly vaccinated buns, and then any buns coming to me after we had VHD being conventionally vaccinated i would definatly stick to the conventional VHD vaccine. However for Myxi this year im not entirly sure, Samson contracted Myxi 18months ago and he was vaccinated, non of my others have caught myxi but samson did, that does leave me to question a few things, 1) could it be that samson didn't build up much of an immunity when he was vaccinated and all my others did, 2) are the strains of myxi now so different that the vaccine is less than 60% effective. I do think i will be looking into the Homeopathic Myxi vaccine, i may not use it this year but i am definatly going to do some research on it.

BirdieBun
11-04-2007, 11:20 PM
After loosing 10 of my bunch to VHD when they weren't vaccinated and then seeing the heartache Su went through with her homeopathicaly vaccinated buns, and then any buns coming to me after we had VHD being conventionally vaccinated i would definatly stick to the conventional VHD vaccine. However for Myxi this year im not entirly sure, Samson contracted Myxi 18months ago and he was vaccinated, non of my others have caught myxi but samson did, that does leave me to question a few things, 1) could it be that samson didn't build up much of an immunity when he was vaccinated and all my others did, 2) are the strains of myxi now so different that the vaccine is less than 60% effective. I do think i will be looking into the Homeopathic Myxi vaccine, i may not use it this year but i am definatly going to do some research on it.

BUT Samson has survived and that wold have been to to him having the vaccs :thumb:

Azraelm
11-04-2007, 11:21 PM
Surely if the vaccination was going to cause bloat, it would happen soon after the vaccine was administered?

Rowan had a limp after his VHD vaccination and then (it seems) he died of stasis several weeks later. After he got over the limp though he seemed fine :? .

Phill
11-04-2007, 11:22 PM
After loosing 10 of my bunch to VHD when they weren't vaccinated and then seeing the heartache Su went through with her homeopathicaly vaccinated buns, and then any buns coming to me after we had VHD being conventionally vaccinated i would definatly stick to the conventional VHD vaccine. However for Myxi this year im not entirly sure, Samson contracted Myxi 18months ago and he was vaccinated, non of my others have caught myxi but samson did, that does leave me to question a few things, 1) could it be that samson didn't build up much of an immunity when he was vaccinated and all my others did, 2) are the strains of myxi now so different that the vaccine is less than 60% effective. I do think i will be looking into the Homeopathic Myxi vaccine, i may not use it this year but i am definatly going to do some research on it.

BUT Samson has survived and that wold have been to to him having the vaccs :thumb:

Yes Carys it would have been because of the vaccine he had but i do think it's worth doing the research into the homeopathic myxi vaccine.

sgprescue
11-04-2007, 11:22 PM
After loosing 10 of my bunch to VHD when they weren't vaccinated and then seeing the heartache Su went through with her homeopathicaly vaccinated buns, and then any buns coming to me after we had VHD being conventionally vaccinated i would definatly stick to the conventional VHD vaccine. However for Myxi this year im not entirly sure, Samson contracted Myxi 18months ago and he was vaccinated, non of my others have caught myxi but samson did, that does leave me to question a few things, 1) could it be that samson didn't build up much of an immunity when he was vaccinated and all my others did, 2) are the strains of myxi now so different that the vaccine is less than 60% effective. I do think i will be looking into the Homeopathic Myxi vaccine, i may not use it this year but i am definatly going to do some research on it.

BUT Samson has survived and that wold have been to to him having the vaccs :thumb:

A lot of conventionally vacc'd bunnies dont survive if they get myxi as several people on this forum will unfortunatly be able to confirm.

Angie65
11-04-2007, 11:30 PM
I have wondered about it. All my buns are vacc'd, but i don't know enough about the homeopathic stuff to make a decision either way.

Diddeen
11-04-2007, 11:37 PM
Im open to read more about homeopathic vaccines, especially the myxi as that is very obviously not 100% going to stop them getting ill.

Where do you get the homeopathic nosodes from if i wanted to get some? Im sure i had a link somewhere but cant find it now :?

TheGaffer
12-04-2007, 12:08 AM
I have heard of hundreds of cases of conventionally vacc'd bunnies developing myxi compared to only a couple with homeopathic vacc.

Thats because there are far more buns conv vaccinated than there are homeopathically vaccinated. So those figures aren't really that reliable.

Nicola

BirdieBun
12-04-2007, 01:18 AM
I have heard of hundreds of cases of conventionally vacc'd bunnies developing myxi compared to only a couple with homeopathic vacc.

Thats because there are far more buns conv vaccinated than there are homeopathically vaccinated. So those figures aren't really that reliable.

Nicola

:thumb: :thumb: i agree

Inimical Me
12-04-2007, 02:05 AM
Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence enough to make some of the sweeping statements that have been made in this thread!

There is scientific evidence for traditional medicine. There isn't for homeopathy, and that's enough for me. As I said I would use it as complimentary, but not in life and death situations.

I go back to my initial argument... if homeopathy was so good, why would we even have modern medicine...

Beebop
12-04-2007, 02:08 AM
Is VHD and Myxi not a man made disease? Therefore I would struggle to see how homopathic vaccs are effective. I was also going to point out what the gaffer said.

At the end of the day, my two have never suffered from being vaccinated, and I ain't going to stop, although in N.Ireland I probably don't even have the choice to use other methods.

I haven't done any research because I have very little time, although I will do some research this Summer after my exams, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

To be honest though, I think we need a new vaccine rather than going down the homopathic route, as I don't think the current vaccine is as effective as it should be. In an ideal world we could all be treated in a natural way, but with man's activities and diseases being created all the time because of our actions, I can never see herbs or other natural treatments being effective. For common problems yes, but for dieseases made by man, I say no to homopathetic versions.

Sooz
12-04-2007, 02:15 AM
Forgive me if this has already been asked but the nosodes contain matter from infected animals, right? So where does this come from...I mean are the animals actually already suffering from the disease or is it induced in some to save others?

Its just that someone mentioned about suffering to produce the vaccine and i thought the same must apply to the nosodes?

haffyj
12-04-2007, 03:12 AM
After loosing 10 of my bunch to VHD when they weren't vaccinated and then seeing the heartache Su went through with her homeopathicaly vaccinated buns, and then any buns coming to me after we had VHD being conventionally vaccinated i would definatly stick to the conventional VHD vaccine. However for Myxi this year im not entirly sure, Samson contracted Myxi 18months ago and he was vaccinated, non of my others have caught myxi but samson did, that does leave me to question a few things, 1) could it be that samson didn't build up much of an immunity when he was vaccinated and all my others did, 2) are the strains of myxi now so different that the vaccine is less than 60% effective. I do think i will be looking into the Homeopathic Myxi vaccine, i may not use it this year but i am definatly going to do some research on it.

BUT Samson has survived and that wold have been to to him having the vaccs :thumb:

A lot of conventionally vacc'd bunnies dont survive if they get myxi as several people on this forum will unfortunatly be able to confirm.

Me being one of them, Only Sugar and Amber got Myxi whilst Vacc'd the other four didnt which does make you think either they were unlucky or it was given incorrectly. They had always had the Vaccines the same time and just on this occassion did they manage to contract it

I will be sticking to my current Vaccine rather Homeopathic medicines for the time being, until there is more proof that these are far more better to use than ordinary medicines

cannonwoman
12-04-2007, 03:38 AM
Just thought i`d put across my point of view after my recent VHD outbreak.
When my outbreak started all my bunnies were homeopathically vaccinated, the 1st 2 i lost ( digby & angel ) who lived together died within 8 hrs of each other. We then had all remaining buns vaccinated & our 3rd & final death was Blue, he died 12 days after the intial 2 BUT when he was given the vaccine his immune system would have been compromised as he was suffering from EC so may not have got the full benefits of the vaccine. His 2 hutch mates, who would have had full immunity from the vaccine at the time of his death have both remained well.
To me that gives me some sort of evidence that cylap offers far more protection than the homeopathy i was using.

I`m aware with myxi vaccine that there are questions as to it`s effectiveness but atleast if you give the conventional vaccine there is a chance, albeit a small one that the rabbit can be nursed through it.

I didn`t choose homeopathy because it was cheaper but because i felt it was the right way to go at the time but with what i have learnt from my outbreak & doing an awful lot more research, is that i personally feel conventional vaccines offer more protection & so therefore that is the way to go for me at present.

Su.x

Azraelm
12-04-2007, 04:35 AM
you know the homeopathic vaccine? how do you make sure the bunns get the right amount? Particularily if they live in pairs/groups? (I believe it is put in their water?)

kayjay
12-04-2007, 04:44 AM
you know the homeopathic vaccine? how do you make sure the bunns get the right amount? Particularily if they live in pairs/groups? (I believe it is put in their water?)

With human homeopathy it's not the quantity, it's the dose, ie you get a dose whether you have one ml or ten mls


I do think this debate has been really interesting and offers food for thought, especially where myxi is concerned.

Azraelm
12-04-2007, 05:06 AM
you know the homeopathic vaccine? how do you make sure the bunns get the right amount? Particularily if they live in pairs/groups? (I believe it is put in their water?)

With human homeopathy it's not the quantity, it's the dose, ie you get a dose whether you have one ml or ten mls


I do think this debate has been really interesting and offers food for thought, especially where myxi is concerned.

oh ok thank you.

colliewoman
12-04-2007, 08:34 AM
although this wasnt what the question was about, (nosodes, which no i dont think work the way they are most commonly used and which isnt what they are for).....
homeopathy saved my dogs life.
my vet is a conventional vet and agrees with me. i understand many people have reservations on the subject, and i also firmly believe there is a VAST difference in the way homeopathy was taught by Hahnemann (classical homeopathy) and what is generally practiced today, leading to many spectacular failures :( (that is why i use an american homeopath via email, because she is classically trained from the 6th organon)
i have posted it before, but if anyone wants to hear tikki's story and see the pictures feel free to pm me and i will send it to you.
the reason homeopathy fell out of favour originally is because hahnemann was firmly against such barbaric practices of bloodletting etc and spoke loudly about it. he was not a popular person with the medical elite of his time
i am not posting this to say i am right you are wrong or anything like that, everyone has their own opinions which is fine. my heart and soul, my baby boy tikki is still with me and that is ALL i care about :wink:

Gem
12-04-2007, 08:41 AM
But what about poor Gem and her conventionally Myxo Vaccinated Buns who went on to get Myxo and did not make it :cry: :cry: :cry:

Yep, there were ten vaccines in the box my vet had, five went to my guys...they caught mxyi and died, I found out today that two other vaccines from the same box went to two buns a few streets away from me, they caught mxyi and also died :cry:

The remaining three doses were destroyed because they obviously were faulty.

All were vaccinated by the SAME vet, just days after my babies were done :cry:

I don't believe it was the fault of my vet, rather that the batch was faulty as the vet vaccinated my other two using a different batch and they were the only two out of the seven at home that didn't catch it :?


Not 1 - and this will probably make me even more hated but I am not 100% convinced that all people on RU that have lost buns to myxi DID actually have their buns vaccinated sorry just my opinion :oops:

:roll:
And what would you know? Do you know my vet? No. Do you know me personally? No....I rest my case :roll:

Denny
12-04-2007, 11:00 AM
I pesonally would not substitute the myzi or VHD vaccine for the homeopathy version but may consider using it along side :) , I believe all vaccines are designed for a reason whether that be human or animal. I would also not go against my adoption agreement and mine states that I must vaccinate for both each year, I respect Tracy's adoption agreement at the end of the day and would not go against her wishes :D :D :D

Years and years ago, TB was illiminated in this country due to the TB vaccine, now, they are not vaccinating teenagers for TB unless they are of ethnic minority so you can bet your bottom dollar that TB will return to this country big time now that the government has made this ridiculous decision :roll: :roll: vaccinations are important and I feel that the RWA would agree with this otherwise they would not be preaching such importancy of the myxi and vhd vaccine.

Seems to me that people really dont know what to do for the best as there is mixed messages coming from all angles regarding rabbit health.

I would rather know I gave my buns a chance if they caught myxi or vhd despite having the vaccinations than have the guilt of knowing I could of given them the vaccinations and given them a chance of beating such cruel diseases but chose not to :( :( I could not and would not want that on my consience :(

tupperwarequeen
12-04-2007, 09:07 PM
Its really interesting to hear peoples opinions, I would like to clarify that the reason I have made this decision is not based on cost, I have had them all twice yearly vacced for myxi in the past and annually for VHD. I will admit that the homeopathic version is a cost saving, but that is not the foundation for my decision.

I understand that those of you who have lost bunnies to either of these terrible diseases will have strong feelings, and my heart goes out to all of you. I feel comfortable with the decision I have made, which I appreciate may not be for everyone. It does not mean that I love or value my buns any less, it simply means that I have made a decision based on my personal circumstances.

I am not fixed in my views, I will continue to review the information available, and if I feel that there is a change in circumstances which means I need to change my decision, then I will. Being a mum (of kids and of bunnies) often means making tough decisions when no-one really knows the right answer. I respect the views of everyone else, and hope that the courtesy is returned :wink:

Jack's-Jane
12-04-2007, 09:13 PM
I respect the views of everyone else, and hope that the courtesy is returned :wink:

It certainly is from here :)

Janex

haffyj
12-04-2007, 09:19 PM
I respect the views of everyone else, and hope that the courtesy is returned :wink:

It certainly is from here :)

Janex

ditto

At least at the end of the day you are having your buns vacc'd which ever way you choose to do it.

Its just not for me :D

tupperwarequeen
12-04-2007, 09:28 PM
thanks guys :wink:

bizzy_vicki
12-04-2007, 09:46 PM
I can tell you vaccines be they for cats, dogs or rabbits are NOT 100%. You simply cant make a vaccine that protects 100% against a rife disease. Vaccinated pets still catch the disese, they just have a better chance to fight it off than none vaccinated pets, although sadly not all do. Vaccinated pets who catch diseases usually have underlying problems also, poor immunity, a virus, or bad vaccine batch which sadly happens.
Many vaccinated dogs contract Parvo but these are the ones whos live to tell the tale. I've seen homeopathic remedies used well in some cases but know nothing about the vaccines so cant comment.
I remember being involved in work with a rescue who's whole rabbit section, bar one rabbit who I later adopted, died of VHD despite most of them being vaccinated :(

tupperwarequeen
13-04-2007, 12:04 AM
But, I am a nurse and I'm a firm believer in medicine.

Nicola

I'm a nurse too :D however thats probably part of my problem, a questioning mind :lol: :lol:

BirdieBun
13-04-2007, 02:28 AM
But what about poor Gem and her conventionally Myxo Vaccinated Buns who went on to get Myxo and did not make it :cry: :cry: :cry:

Yep, there were ten vaccines in the box my vet had, five went to my guys...they caught mxyi and died, I found out today that two other vaccines from the same box went to two buns a few streets away from me, they caught mxyi and also died :cry:

The remaining three doses were destroyed because they obviously were faulty.

All were vaccinated by the SAME vet, just days after my babies were done :cry:

I don't believe it was the fault of my vet, rather that the batch was faulty as the vet vaccinated my other two using a different batch and they were the only two out of the seven at home that didn't catch it :?


Not 1 - and this will probably make me even more hated but I am not 100% convinced that all people on RU that have lost buns to myxi DID actually have their buns vaccinated sorry just my opinion :oops:

:roll:
And what would you know? Do you know my vet? No. Do you know me personally? No....I rest my case :roll:

Urmmmmm I beg your pardon? :shock: Is there something you wanna tell us? :shock: