Making 'The Decision'-Difficult Post................

As some of you know two more of my Buns (Ned and Norman) have a terminal illness At the moment they are being stabalised on medication, although thus far we have not achieved the level of therapeutic results I'd like. In the past we, me and my Vet, have continued to treat 'terminal' Buns as long as their quality of life remains good. However, recently I have had my confidence shaken by someone telling me I am cruel to push Buns on and on when there is no realistic hope of a cure

I read an article in RO about 'Sayng Goodbye' and reference was made to those who let their terminal Buns go at a relatively early stage, ie they are not 'ill within themself'. I would find this so very hard to do but due to my loss of self confidence I would value other people's opinions on this very sensitive matter.

Christobel would not allow me to push a Rabbit on if she believed it to be unkind to do so. But I wonder if she is thinking of ME too as she cares about her two-foot clients just as much.

I guess I am still so upset about losing many other Buns recently and really dont want to do the wrong thing with regard to Ned and Norman.



Sorry to ramble on

Janex

Hi jane ,

firstly i would just like to say how sorry i am that you are having to decide something like this yet again so soon after the last time

As for putting buns to sleep ...god i dont know .... im probably not the best person to give an oppinion , i tend to sway from one side of the argument to the other .

Ok so we have the means to relive suffering . ie PTS . this is good . it means a bun (or any animal )can go with dignity before any real pain sets in . ....BUT

i also feel that sometimes it is done to ease our suffering too . its not nice watching a loved pet suffer.Is this right . but if they have no chance of recovery is that a bad thing anyway .

And back to the other side . if PTS is so right ...how come it only applies to animals ....surely if it was so right it would apply to us too . :?

twice now i have almost had a loved bun PTS only to change my mind and that bun recover. so surely its not a bad thing to try first .


what im trying to say i suppose is that there is no right and wrong like in so many other things .
i think you should follow your heart and do what is right for your buns and you and b er what anyone else thinks .

Angie x

Here, here, I totally agree.

I think if an animal is terminally ill, but not in pain and living a good quality of life, they should be given every chance to extend that for as long as possible.

When it looks as if they're suffering, then is the time to let them go. I firmly believe this should apply to both animals and humans.....but that's a different discussion!

Everyone has their own views....but NO-ONE has the right to tell you that what you are doing is wrong, you are a wonderful bunny mummy, who takes the advice of their veterinary surgeon to the letter and no-one can or should fault that.

What you feel in your heart will tell you what to do.

Good Luck and Keep Fighting

Amanda x

Yep, I totally agree. I think you always know whether your bun is happy or not. My vet always says that whilst they seem happy and are still eating, toileting etc then they deserve a chance.

Of course everyone is different. I guess sometimes, people feel that they either can't cope with the nursing or can't afford it...

I have always tried to just do what is right for the individual bun, on my vets advice.

Jane, you shouldn't listen to people who are judging you. No one has the right to judge anyone else. Everyone on here knows how much you love your buns and you wouldn't put them through anything that would cause them more pain.

Sorry you are having to make this decision again - I'm lucky I've never had to face it, so it's easy to say this....I'm mostly anti-pts. i think it should only be done if a bun is in great pain & suffering so the end is just brought closer.

A horse at the stables I work at was recently PTS, before I thought he was ready, & I've actually quit over it, but unfortunately it wasn't my decision. I've worked there 13 years.

Only YOU & your vet know your buns & if they still have a reasonable life & their pain is controlled. It's easy for someone 300 miles away to condemn you, when they can't see the bun enjoying his food, or getting groomed by his partner. Make the decision as if we weren't here - then you'll be doing what your heart thinks is right.

Echoing what others have already said..

aslong as the rabbit is not in pain and is enjoying it's life to some extent....then I think it's unfair to cut that life short.
If the rabbit is suffering or has "given up"...we all know when our pets stop eating and lose their zest for life..then the time has come to say goodbye.

You know your rabbits and you have a good vet. Only you can make that decision Jane. As in all cases of nasty mails or pms..they are best ignored.

I'm so sorry you are in this postion again but I suppose it's to be expected when you open your home to so many small furries.
Take care xx

I agree with what the others have said, you have always done the very best for your bunnies, nobody can dispute that, some might try but what do they know.........they are very selfish, thoughtless and ignorant.

Be guided by your vet, you have 100% faith in her, you trust her and if you think you are getting it 'wrong' she would tell you, wouldn't she??

From your posts I don't think you are getting it wrong, you give every bunny the utmost care and consideration, you always think through each problem and in my opinion you ALWAYS do what is right.

Thinking of you

Jane,
I can`t really say anything different to what has already been said, just want to echo what others have said.
You know your animals best & i know that you wouldn`t let them suffer or go through unnecessary treatment if you or Christobel didn`t feel it was worth trying.
As you know i have a terminally ill cat ( she was literally given a matter of months to live nearly 2 yrs ago now) & yes i know she can never be cured. Pollyanna has good & bad spells but thus far each time she`s gone down hill we`ve managed to nurse her back again. I, like you would never put her through treatment if we/or our vet felt it was hopeless & she didn`t have a good quality of life but we won`t just give up on her either.
I feel that as our pets carers we know our animals best, i:e: whether they are happy or not & truly believe that in our hearts we will know when our pet has had enough.

I fully understand how upsetting nasty emails/messages can be, especially when you`re feeling so emotional anyway. But please remember there are many more of us that feel your rabbits recieve amazing care & dedication & those vindictive people are in the minority & really have nothing better to do with their time.

Hugs to you,
Su.x

AWwww Jane I know how you feel, Ozzy would be pretty knobbed off if I put him to sleep yet. I'm going to assume it's absolutly obvious when a bunny needs to be pts.

Dont let ignorant people make you doubt yourself Jane.

I also agree with what others have said. Even if you know for definite that an illness is terminal I still do not see that as a reason to PTS if the bunn is still happy and eating...if I were diagnosed with terminal cancer I think I would want to live out my remaining time enjoying life, not 'put out of my misery' because there was no hope of recovery.

As I've said before about Bob, the vet wanted to put him to sleep, but after a second opinion he lived for 2 more months and he was SO happy in that time- he got to be with Esmerelda and enjoyed playing in the garden in the sunshine every day.

You will make the best decision for them xx

Jane

Knowing Cristabel as well as you, I am confident that she will not allow you to soldier on treating a suffering bun without any light at the end of the tunnel. Like many others here only you will know when that time is right, if the bun has symptoms which are controlable and they are not suffering then it may be appropriate to continue treatment.

If they have given up or their symptoms are causing them pain and suffering then it would be appropriate to allow them to get their ticket to travel to the bridge slightly early than at the time nature would allow.

As for people pm'ing you saying you are cruel for continueing to treat a rabbit with a terminal illness, the one thing I would add is that only the people who have actually seen the animals in question can realistically make that descision. Would these people feel it was appropriate if a member of their family were euthanased because they were diagnosed with any form of heart disease or cancer or would they prefer their relative to be given medical treatment.

I can only echo what other people have said. It is such a difficult decision that of course you doubt yourself. The doubt is a part of the decision. But you also have advice from somebody who knows the situation as well as you (and that is your vet, not some random person who emailed you). You are certainly not making decisions on your own whim, so you need not worry about that. Your vet may well be considering you too, but she will not be considering you ABOVE the rabbits. She must consider you - and her advice is based on her knowledge that with you, the rabbit will get the care that makes a few more weeks worthwhile.

I can give as little advice as the person who emailed you and knocked your confidence. But I can say that a good guide for everybody is to trust their vet, and my impression of you is that I can say without qualm that you should trust yourself too.

I can only echo what other people have said. It is such a difficult decision that of course you doubt yourself. The doubt is a part of the decision. But you also have advice from somebody who knows the situation as well as you (and that is your vet, not some random person who emailed you). You are certainly not making decisions on your own whim, so you need not worry about that. Your vet may well be considering you too, but she will not be considering you ABOVE the rabbits. She must consider you - and her advice is based on her knowledge that with you, the rabbit will get the care that makes a few more weeks worthwhile.

I can give as little advice as the person who emailed you and knocked your confidence. But I can say that a good guide for everybody is to trust their vet, and my impression of you is that I can say without qualm that you should trust yourself too. Have a hug, Jane, for the difficult time you are having.

As the others have said - only you know your bunny well enough to decide what is best, and I'm sure that Christobel would not carry on if there was any distress.

Ignore the nasty emails, Jane - they are from nasty narrow minded people who enjoy causing this fuss. :evil:

We all know that you do a wonderful job with your buns and long may it continue.

Thank you everyone. I just want to do the very best for Ned and Norman. And being aware of my judgement being a bit off course due to a loss of self confidence I am so affraid of getting it wrong. I do know that Christobel would tell me straight if she thought continuing treatment was not in a Bun's best interests.

I am really feeling quite emotional about everything and so it helps to sound things out amongst respected friends here.

Thank you

Janex

hi Jack's-Jane
just to say in agreement with the opinions expressed.
it sounds like you have a great relationship with your
vet which is vital and if you both agree they have a quality
of life still then you know them best.

Jane, like others have said, you are a superb bunny mummy, and I am sure you know when the time is right for your special babies. Have faith in yourself, and be strong in the knowledge that without your love and care these bunnies would have had no life at all.

Keep the faith sister :wink:

Jane, you have had a really rough time recently, and it is understandable and ok that you feel low. It is also ok that you are doubting yourself, at the end of the day you are only human. Being a fellow mental-health sufferer I kno how when things start to go wrong it just really knocks everything out of you. Yet you still manage to stay strong for your buns. You are a wonderful bun-mum and you will know when the time has come, in exactly the same way that you have with all your previous buns. Do not doubt yourself or all your years of experience. And if someone is too cowardly to say what they think of you in public, then how valid is their opinion? Lots of people on here are very open about their views, its not as if there is a culture on here of only saying nice things. People are honest and open. So for that person to send you a PM instead of making their views public shows them to be a coward and a bully. And bullies often pick on people like us, (those of us with depression in our lives) because it makes them feel good to make us feel worse. My old deputy head completely demoralised me, and took great pleasure from it, and left me doubting my ability to teach. However now I am ace at what I do. You know you wil make the decision at the right time and do not be scared to give your buns another day, another week, another month. Don't just think about you spending time with them, but also them wanting to spend time with you. As much as they are everything to you, you are everything to them. Take care x Jess
P.S please PM me if you just want a depressed rant, I know how it can seem that everything is going wrong and how bad that can feel x

Poorly buns

Hi Jane,

I so feel for you and your buns at this difficult time. I know absolutely that you would never push any of your ill buns, and equally so, Christobel would not allow them to suffer either. I believe that you are absolutely right to give each bun the maximum time possible - I would do exactly the same.

Kindest regards from Sue

I think after the rough few weeks you have had Jane, I think it's not surprising that you are doubting your judgement But you really shouldn't - you are a very respected and knowledgeable bunny mummy and you know your own rabbits better than anyone else. I doubt for one minute that you have always considered their best interests

I agree that if I had a bun that was eating and drinking and seemed comfortable and happy but had been diagnosed with a terminal condition, I wouldn't want to have him / her PTS.

Harley's emergency treatment was expensive and heartbreaking to see but he was eating throughout and was happy to see Jen and I even at the end - the vet offered me PTS as soon as I took him on the Monday night, as she was sure he had chronic kidney failure and wouldn't survive, but I wanted to try and treat him. As it happens he made the journey to the bridge himself just 14hrs later, but I know he wasn't suffering during that time and I don't regret trying to help him for one minute. I felt I did my best for a very special friend and that's been a huge comfort to me.

Tracie x