bad front teeth - [updated] vet says he can't take them out

My rabbit - Cody - is having terrible trouble with all of his front teeth following an accident.
(Short version: when I was in hospital my housemate who was supposed to be looking after both rabbits, dropped cody, on his head breaking all front teeth and a few back ones.&no, he hasn't been near the rabbits since.)

The vet says that the back teeth are now all right; but Cody's front teeth are absolutely hideous. He's having to have them burred every three weeks, and recently every two weeks. He last had his teeth burred two and a half weeks ago, today they are so long it looks like a really bad case of rabbit neglect. If you saw the photographs you'd think he hadn't been fed/let out/cared for in months.

He's eating some, but not much. He doesn't use his front teeth at all,crunches the pellets with the back teeth; he can't eat any treats even bread is difficult, and his teeth are starting to give him sores from being too long. All four of his front teeth are affected.
I'm obviously going to book him into the vets tomorrow to have the teeth burred, but it seems like time to consider whether I keep having his teeth burred, or risk having them taken out completely.

It seems mean to keep having his teeth burred every two weeks, and they obvously cause him pain: and it does seem that the growth is actually accelerating. He's been this way since last may (at first he needed teeth done every five or so weeks, the vet said wait and see if it settled down. )

The vet has suggested taking all four front teeth out. Which seemed like a viable option, until another vet told me that damaged teeth CAN actually grow back, in some cases, and that they can't give me a guarantee that cody's back teeth are actually okay enough for him to eat without his front teeth.
((but he can't possibly be using his front teeth the state they're in.))
He is very,very thin though. But it seems when his front teeth are burred right down, he eats normally - so he might well be okay with all four front teeth removed.

I just don't really know what to do: I would hate to take his front teeth out and put him in a worse position or unable to eat at all. But they cause him a lot of pain; and he is so thin it frightens me.
Has anyone else had a bunny with all front teeth missing/taken out?
Cody's back teeth seem allright, and he eats a diet of mostly hay, some herbs and suparabbit pellets. I just don't want to a)put him through pointless treatment or b) make this worse.

Also at the moment, he is hardly eating,and I wondered if anyone had advice on what I can feed him that's nutritous and will help with his weight but that he can eat with either long teeth or his teeth burred right back?

Hi I have had a few buns have all four front teeth removed. I had a gorgeous mini black lop and he was absolutely fine when he had them removed, I just had to chop his veg up small but he was much happier without them. another lop had his removed and unfortunately died from an unrelated prob, so couldn't really tell if it helped or not. I guess you have to look at how Cody copes with having them burred so regularly. sounds awful him being dropped on his head, poor bun. I know a lot of people have had buns front teeth removed and then the bun has been happier and healthier as it can eat properly, and I am currently considering it for one of my does. Good luck, you need to make the decision based on what is best for Cody. x Jess

It sounds as though removing all 4 incisors and both peg teeth (making that six teeth) would be in his best interest. Burring the teeth back is very stressful, and the surgery (if done properly) will be the last of his troubles with poorly front teeth.

And also, feeding him an all hay and veggie diet would also be best for him. This is the healthiest diet for any bun, and it could also help to slow the growth of his teeth as they would be worn down a bit by the hay. I noticed you mentioned "bread and treats". What type of treats? Bread can actually be very dangerous and unhealthy for buns so I would reccomend you cut that from his diet

-Brandon

Hi Brandon, 'treats' i mean the occasional apple or cranberry/blueberry bananna bit. I give them in really small quanities.
The rabbits are fed mostly on hay, with some herbs and veggies and supplemented with Burgess Suparabbit that the vet recommended to help grind cody's back teeth down when he was struggling with them.
Bread - I give very rarely because it isn't intended to be rabbit food, treats are most often little bits of fruit. I only gave some to cody today thinking that it was soft and at least he might be able to eat *something.* and bread is something he really,really likes - apparently before he came to me he was fed bread quite a lot . He hardly gets it anymore, but it's usually a good indicator of how poorly he is, if he won't eat it.

Even on a diet of mostly hay and suparabbit his teeth don't seem to get worn down (that is why it's been left this long. He just seems to not use the front teeth at all; but his back teeth are now okay.)

Do you have any suggestion what I can feed him at the moment (he's ignoring his hay too. )

I would highly recommend having his teeth removed completely. Squidgy had his removed almost 5 years ago, and he has been much better without them. We have to chop his hay up for him, and his veggies, but he manages absolutely fine.
As for them growing back, one of Squidgy's teeth has grown back, but only very slightly.

Bad front teeth can actually contribute to back teeth issues. If he can't close his mouth as fully as normal because his front teeth don't meet properly then it stops the back teeth meeting and wearing normally.

Leaving a small part of the root behind can cause them to grow back so occationally a bun will need a second op to re-remove the regrowth.

He should cope fine without them - as you say they can't be much use to him now. If he usually eats hay that's a good indication his back teeth would work fine given the opportunity.

I think I'd go for removal if it was my bun.

In the interim you might find porridge, which you can mix soggy pellets in to, tempts him and will help keep the weight on. Another good option is veggy baby food.

Tam

Alice had her front teeth removed and was absolutely fine. You just need to cut their veg up a bit. I think it'll be the best thing for your bun, rather than putting it through burring every few weeks which must be stressful.

Gemma

I have had lots of rabbits front with teeth removed and they cope very well , just some of them had the peg teeth grow back

Thanks everyone.
I'm still somewhat confused though - I phoned the vet to explain that his teeth were atrocious again, and she sounded very dubious about taking out any teeth .... she said it's a very risky operation and quite bad for the rabbit.
And also that Cody could be too thin to have it . (I was told this once before, right at the beginning of the trouble when his back teeth were problematic, he put on weight, but has lost it all again.)

I'm having his teeth burred tonight, and seeing the rabbit savvy vet, who might have more of an idea. But the other vet told me on the phone they are very reluctant to do it at all. (Yet I've been to three vets over this period - including the present one, and all have suggested that it might come to a point where he might need the teeth removed.)

So now I'm just confused! Hopefully the rabbit-savvy vet will shed some more light on the subject - when he realises just HOW quickly cody's teeth are growing.

Has anyone else been told that removing the front teeth is a nasty operation?

i think what everyone said on here is very good advice. and your bunny will be better off having the offending teeth removed.

all ops carry some risk but it is about the quality of life and i am sure having my teeth burred on nealy a weekly basis would not only be costly but also very stressful for your bunny.

as tamsin said the bad front teath can also mean eventualy bad back teeth because the jaw mis-allignes to accomodate the front teeth as best it can so.

without the front teeth bunny will enjoy eventual pain free and stress free life.

some consessions have to be made about the food prep but bunny will still enjoy many treats and should eventualy gain weight.

i have to agree if it was my bunny i would go for the opp , after all bunnys can have long lives so the sooner done the better.

yes all operations carry risks but the benefits outweigh the risks.

ps you can always look around for a good bunny savy vet.

i wish you and your bun the very best of luck , do let me know what you decide.

Thanks deborah.
I know all ops carry some risk, but that wasn't the way the vet put it - not the general it'll be a bit uncomfortable,need TLC and the anaesthetic danger. It was more 'this is just about the last thing on the planet I want to do' : which is a bit bewildering because twice I've got to the point of seriously discussing it with a vet at a surgery that's already suggested it might be the ultimate option only to have them turn around and be really,really reluctant.
More so than just general op warnings.
I'm just going to be really firm with the rabbit-savvy vet tonight, and make sure he understands cody's been like this since may, 'waiting to see' if it settles down.
Hopefully he'll take one look at his teeth and see that there's little option really.
I just wish the advice all the vets gave would stop conflicting!

back from vets

We just got back from the rabbit-savvy vet. Who was indeed shocked by Cody's teeth - they're not meeting at all, he's obviously just not using them.
BUT his back teeth aren't that great either (Even though they've grown back they're not very straight, but he's coping.)
But the vet is afraid that if he takes out the front teeth the back teeth will be more likely to go all jagged and horrid, and have more pressure on them and get problematic, and he'll have trouble eating at all.
He was also worried that the teeth could be so damaged at the roots that it would be almost impossible to take out properly, because of the impact and the horrible way in which he was dropped.
*fumes*

So he really advises against taking the front teeth out, but recommends that I take him to have them burred every 2 1/2 weeks. :shock:


Cody seems okay at the moment, happily tucking into pellets , despite having tiny tiny useless front teeth. And not too traumatised by the vet, so now I don't know what to do for the best .
Keep having his teeth burred, and hope that as long as I'm vigilant he always stays able to eat, or find a second opinion when i go back to sheffield and see if they agree or not. (Though the vets in Oldham phoned Sheffield to discuss it with them.)
grrrrrrrrrrrr.

I would go for a second opinion, at least then you will be more informed in any decision you do make. Its unfortunate that this could have been avoided, but thats life sometimes. I wish you all the best and you have a very hard decision, but only you know Cody well enough to make it. Good luck, let us know how he goes, x Jess

As a sort of aside, my bunny Alice who has sadly passed to the bridge now had only one tooth in the end because most of them dropped out or had to be removed. We managed really well by blending up her food into really small pieces and I supplemented her diet with either recovery liquid feed sprinkled into her veg or protexin pro-fibre. This worked really well and it's just to let you know that I'm sure the teeth problems will be overcome one way or another and your bun can lead a very happy life without them.

I vote to get a second opinin too.

David Crossely based in Manchester is a rabbit dental specialist, otherwise phone a few local vets and ask who their rabbit referral vet is (specifically tooth related issues) then ask your current vet for a referral to the named vet for a second opinion.

That way you know the advice given is coming from someone who may not necessarily profit from the decision (i.e. constant burring is more money than potentially a single removal op) and is the most qualified person in your area to asses his teeth.

Caz

Teething Problems

Hello

My rabbit has had teeth problems over the last year, we have now settled into a routine of having them burred every 4/5 weeks but having read the above I might discuss getting them removed with the vet again, she did mention it before but neither her or I felt too enthusiastic.

On the subject of the vet I would recommend seeing a few different ones at the practice to find out which one you and your bunny get on with, I saw 3 at our practice before settling on one who I felt I had a good rapport with.

Bunny (original name I know) has never really managed to get her weight back to normal since the appearance of the dodgy teeth until I went away for the weekend leaving my husband in charge!!

I've always fed oatmeal and tea leaves (just from a used tea bag) as a treat occasionally (something my dad did for his bunnies when he was a kid) the rabbits love it, hubby then ground down some pellets with a pestle and mortar (I now use the food processor) and finally took the carrot pith out of our Juicer(could probably just grate it) and mixed the whole lot together adding some of the carrot juice to make it pretty squishy! Looks pretty grose and is a bit of a hassle to make but Bunny is putting weight on at last, shes even putting weight on along her back which has looked scrawny for ages.

Good Luck with you Bunny

Lynn

Hiya, i have a lion head, lolly, who had to have her teeth burred reg. After much sole searching and advice from here i had them removed. one grew back so she went back and had it removed again (little bit of root had been left behind). She manages hay unchopped and pellets also she still has the ability to strip plants including phormiums (very hard leafed shrub) in minutes!!!! I have 10 bunsters and three of the others have teeth issues. All the rabbits have their teeth checked 3 times a year by vet, front and molars and every time he states that lolly's molars are in the best condition of all the rabbits. I am soooo glad i decided to have the front teeth removed i feel it would have been quite stressful for her to keep attending vets for burring. Hope bunny is fine what ever you decide.