Bad teeth - should bunny be PTS?

A friend of mine has a lovely little bunny who was very ill over xmas as his back teeth werent growing correctly and consequencly he had sores in his mouth and couldnt eat.

He has had the teeth burred (i think thats what he has had done) and she has been advised that this will need doing under a GA every 3 to 4 weeks. She has taken him for a second opinion with another vet practice and been told the same thing. She feels she is making the right decision about having him PTS as she doesnt want him to be in pain and hav to go through and operation every 3 - 4 weeks. The et apparently was very good and answered all her questions etc.

Has anyone else had the same problem and is there really no alternatives? I have to stress this is his back teeth (not front).

How old is the bunny?
My personal opinion is that poor teeth do not equal a death sentance in rabbits, many rabbits can live a full and happy life despite needing regular dentals.

What diet is she feeding? Diet can effect the teeth, it the rabbits had a very poor (low hay) diet then fixing the diet can fix the teeth. Even if it doesn't fix it it can reduce the frequency treatment is needed.

With burring the idea is you time it so the teeth are treated before they cause any pain. Depending on the rabbit this can mean dentals anything between 4 weekly and every three months.

I would be inclined to switch diet (if needed) and see how long before treatment is needed before making the decision to pts. She may find that it doesn't need to be done as frequently as expected.

Tam

I would suggest a switch in diet. I have just found out Fiver has molar spurs and with a good diet we can cut his dentals to every three months max.

We are going to restrcit him to hay and veg once has gained some weight. He had his teeth done yesterday and the difference in him is amazing, he hasnt stopped eating since we got him home.

Travis has problems with his back teeth (molars). He has to have regular dentals. This can vary from 3 - 9 weeks apart, but averages around 6. There's so much that can be done, but most importantly, is to ensure she has a very rabbit savvy vet. My vet see's Travis 4 weeks after his previous dental for a FREE check-up, and then once a week after that until we decide he has to have another dental.

Travis' teeth are not burred until it is obvious that they are beginning to cause discomfort (ie cause cuts or sores on the tongue.cheek). If there are obvious teeth causing the problem, they can be removed. Travis has had a total of 5 molar teeth out that had either come loose from the burring, or were the root of the problem (excuse the pun). I also had x-rays done of Travis' jaw to ensure that there were no underlying problems such as the roots of the teeth causing them to grow funny!!

Travis has had this problem for 15 months now, and you wouldn't know it to look at him. Burring is very quick, and there's not much recovery time associated with it as it doesn't cause much pain for them. I could never have Travis PTS because of his teeth He's my baby, it causes him no pain or trouble. When you know your rabbit inside out you know when they need burring again without even looking. I do worry every time he goes under GA obviously, but he's always woken up so far! And I have the comfort in knowing that I'm giving him a long and loved life, I'd feel awful if I cut it short like that.

My vets have said Travis is the most frequent they've had to see a bunny, but they love it when Travis and Treacle go in there for the day!!! I get discount on his dentals due to the fact that he has them so often, and all of his check-ups in between are FREE too.

Your friend really needs to find the reason for it happening - X-rays can rule out problems with the roots or jaw alignment, and may show teeth that would benefit from being removed.

Teeth removal is an option if it's always a certain tooth/teeth. However, this does come with risks as sometimes the remaining teeth may shift to fill the gap, causing more mis-alignment. In Travis' case, I decided that the benefits outweighed the risk of that happening.

Genetics play a big part, lionheads and lops are more prone to dental problems than some breeds due to the shape of the skull. And dental problems are hereditory.

Diet can make all the difference. Ensure that the rabbit has plenty of hay. Try lots of different types to find one that they like. (Excel Herbage is popular in our house!!). The rabbit should only have a small amount of dry food (pellets/mix) The rest of it's diet should be hay / grass / veg. When it comes to veg things like spring greens are good for keeping teeth down.

A rabbits jaw is designed to move from side to side when they eat in order to wear the teeth down, commerical foods and pellets require a rabbit to eat like we do crunching in up and down movements with the jaw, thus, not wearing the teeth down. Therefore, the more "wild rabbit" food you can give them, the better. So hay, grass and leafy veg is best.


But don't give up hope, there's a great chance that this bunny could live for many years yet. A guide of 3-4 weeks is rubbish as it can vary sooooo much, one month it might be 3 weeks, the next, it may make it 9 weeks. Some rabbits have managed to go for months at a time between burring, it can all change so much. So please, keep trying for a little while before making a decision, you never know. And encourage the vets to give you discounts etc. :wink:

My vet had a rabbit in yesterday whose last teeth burr was April last year! I have also started the ball rolling with discounts, esp. for my foster bunnies neutering and vacs now that they know i wil be spending £60 every few months on dentals.

Thank you for all your replies - just the answers I thought and hoped I would get.

The bunny is about 4 years old and the problems have only just started. He has always been on mixed food (my advice went unheeded)!! And I am unsure of hay quantity or quality.

The vet said that if the teeth were removed the rabbit wouldnt be able to eat which is why my friend has not gone for that option.

Unfortunatly the rabbit has just had a check up and will need his teeth burred again next week if not PTS this is only 4 weeks.

I am very tempted to take bunny and care for him myself but I am not in a financial position to do this as relying on benefits to just make ends meet at the mo I would be foolish to take on a bunny I couldnt afford to care for.

If it's 4yrs and not previously had a problem then it's unlikely its related to the head shape and more likely diet.

Tam

Hi,

My first bun had to have her teeth removed and she had some eating problems until we discovered you could soak Ecxel in water to make it nice and soft. She ate very well after that.

I really hope your friend finds a better solution than PTS.

It would be most unfair to put this rabbit to sleep because his hooman was too thick to feed him properly :x

Back teeth will often stop growing at some point and the dentals will no longer be necessary.

If they were removed he could still survive on soaked pelletes and grated veg. Not sure about removing back teeth though. That is usually only possible through the cheek when there is an abcess present.

We have a 4 1/2 year old buck here at the moment that was returned to us after 6 weeks.
With what we where told was grade 3 dental problems and needing dentals every 4 weeks. My vet is very bunny savvy and had never heard of dental problems being marked like this.

This rabbit was returned to us in a terrible condition, he had amongst other test etc a dental on the 19 sept last year. Due to a forum member taking a shine to this little man he has been given all sorts of different hays to get him to wear his teeth down. (oat is his favourite) The teeth are now keeping them selves spur free although they are still on a slant. He is fed on as much hay as he wants inculding his favourites and allen and page pellets.

His weight at his last check was 2.65kg and he hasn't had a dental since that one in september. We are continuing to monitor him but at the moment I'm very happy as is my vet.

One thing that may be of use to your friend. Burring can be done with a wiff of gas even on back teeth. If the vets are able to do it this way it would save him having a GA every time.

Please persuade your friend not to PTs..if she doesn't want to keep him PLEASE could you get him and keep until We have a space then I will take him and rehome him . I can collect from you as come down to Chippenham regularly.
We have 2 vets in our reach who burr teeth without a GA

Just to add that two of my buns have had molar spurs burred, but the spurs are very well managed by the amount of hay they eat. It's been a year since they needed them doing. I think Bobby may need his sorting again soon, but Salt is fine. They can certainly have an excellent quality of life.

Well I have learned more in the last five minutes reading this.

I have four buns who all require regular dentals. It is very very stressful. The stress for me comes from waiting until they go off their food and then arranging the dental and the small amount of TLC reuired afterwards. But the biggests stresser is the fact that then the cycle happens all over again with the next bunny needing her dental.

I have watched the pattern closely in two of my bunnies and will be arranging regular dental checks every 4-5 weeks to have the teeth examined in the hope that they don't become problematic. I think quality of life is poor in my bunnies if I let it get to the stage where the go off their food and in pain.

I have reduced their veg to a small daily treat and they are fed the minimum amount of pellets to encourage maximum hay consumption. I hadn't realised that some veg is good for grinding the molars as mentioned above. I do suspect that diet has a lot to do with it for most bunnies, but occlusion of the molars (and other teeth) and genetic factors play a part.

Hope bunny gets on well,


Fiona x

I agree, please don't let bun be pts! I use the same vet as Jill and she is very good and one of the few that can clip molars without GA, but teeth can definately improve with diet - When Jill first got Sam he and his teeth were in a terrible state but after she put him on a good diet and plenty of hay, which I have continued (although he is adamant he doesn't eat hay and is starving so needs more pellets) his teeth have not needed to be touched since I adopted him - also they were very yellow with ridges on them which the vet believed was down to calcium deficiency, they were so bad the vet couldn't believe he was as young as he was, but now they are a lot whiter and less ridged.

KerinTravis mentioned that spring greens are good for helping with keeping teeth down - are there any others that also help?

Many rabbits has teeth problem, some members here has rabbit currently without teeth. One thing come to my mind is to mix baby food w/ seedhead powder by stripping the seedhead on the surface of the babyfood and force feed the rabbit that way.

Choy up miniature size veggie can also give it to the rabbit w/o teeth. I mean, worst case, just get a juicer, fruits and veggies can be chop down to liquid level if necessary. And a juicer is cheap

i had kibbles pts as she was having dentals every 4 weeks and the ga leads to kidney failure and she was soo depressed from her beloved feline sweetheart dying she never picked up..she had constant eye and ear infections which made us think it was teeth roots and a misaligned jaw but it was never xrayed they didnt think there was any point..i feel awful now..i should have persevered she was the feistiest bun ive ever known and the most intelligent!

bifs had two since coming to live with me..andive had her since the end of last march! once they have one dental..thats it..dentals for life!

i feed her spring greens which help and 2nd cut timmyhay and the odd first cut which she doesnt like as much..she likes to chew on barley straw too..and grass when its dry! i get dried leaves..strawberrys her fave off bunny basics and those excel sticks the dandelion ones only have grass and dandelions in..look like cigars! shes on science selective and her downfalls apple( which she hasnt had for a few eeks cos oof her tum) and carrots. i got them some dried rosehips full of vot c and theyve gone barr one so its not bertie cos he eats it all..bifs always been a nibbler who leaves bits for later!
im growing some catnip for this year and i dry some at the end of the season..the buns adore chewing on that stalks an all..
bertie has long teeth vet said but nothing to worry about. he adores timmy hay..ooh and marigold flowers!

My first bunny had a problem with his teeth and they just removed them he lived a long and happy life without them

Travis copes fine without 5 of his molars (he still has 7 left) When he had the two ops to have them removed, he was sore, but still ate by having his veg grated up each night and his pellets crushed using a pestle and mortar so that they didn't need chewing. As I said before any veg that requires buns to eat naturally (grinding the jaw from side to side) will help. So just hink "grass/hay" and a similar veg, so anything leafy like spring greens, cabbage (if your bun is ok tummy wise with this) and herbs. Rabbits see their veg as a nutritious treat, and wont think it's boring if it's 90% spring greens, and a little herbs with a small amount of carrot/cauliflower/celery/broccoli.

Rabbits molars do not have to be removed through the cheek, I have heard of a lot of vets being under this impression. Obviously individual circumstances will alter this, but all 5 of Travis' teeth were removed under GA in the same way that our own teeth are removed. It is however imperative that the entire root is removed as the teeth could re-grow.

I have found since Travis has had his dental problems that this is still a tricky area for vets, and that it can really sort out the bunny savvy ones from the rest. Therefore, I believe that calling around to suss out the local "talent" is important in these situations.

As the bunny is 4, and has never had problems before, I would agree with Tamsin that diet is likely to be the main cause of the problems.

As I have previously said, X-rays and other scans can be done to rule out any underlying root or jaw traumas that could also be the casue, although unlikely.

Less rabbit mix, minimal pellets and lots of fresh tasty hay is the answer I believe. Even if it does not prevent the dentals, it should certainly slow them down. Timothy hay is best as it's courser and wears teeth more than most other hays. Another idea is to use the excel nature sticks as treats. This is not to replace the hay, but to compliment it as they also contain hay and dry herbs. I also feed my two buns dried herbs and leaves from online stores (most of mine from bunnybasics)as a treat, as these, again, encourage the grinding jaw action when eaten

purplebumble said:

i had kibbles pts as she was having dentals every 4 weeks and the ga leads to kidney failure and she was soo depressed from her beloved feline sweetheart dying she never picked up..she had constant eye and ear infections which made us think it was teeth roots and a misaligned jaw but it was never xrayed they didnt think there was any point..i feel awful now..i should have persevered she was the feistiest bun ive ever known and the most intelligent!

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Don't regret your decisions. We all make decisions based on what we know at the time and based on how well we know our animal. It doesn't matter if the dentals could have kept her going, the point is that your little Kibble had given up on life In the case of the little bunny mentioned in this thread, it would seem too soon to give up now. I will watch my bunnies closely in terms of happiness and quality of life now they all need regular dental work. I will do anything I can to help them lead a good life but will let them tell me if enough is enough.

Sometimes we are in danger of reading advice given to others that makes us doubt ourselves as bunny mums/dads.You are clearly very good at what you do with your buns.

Fiona x