• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

  • Please Note - Medical Advice

    Please keep in mind that posts on this forum are from members of the public sharing personal opinions. It is not a replacement for qualified medical advice from a veterinarian. Many illnesses share similar symptoms but require different treatments. A medical exam is necessary for an accurate diagnosis, without which appropriate treatment cannot be given.

    You should always consult your vet before following any suggestions for medication or treatment you have read about. The wrong treatment could make your rabbit worse or mean your vet is unable to give the correct treatment because of drug interactions. Even non prescription drugs can do harm if given inappropriately.

    We are very grateful to members who take time to answer other members questions, but please do be clear in your replies that you are sharing personal experience and not giving instructions on what must be done.

    Urgent Medical Advice: If you need, or think you might need, urgent medical advice you should contact a vet. If it is out of working hours phone your vet's normal number and there should be an answer phone message with instructions on what to do.

Potassium citrate, kidney stones and mysterious illness

C

CrazyBun

Warren Scout
Hello, I've lots of questions in this post - sorry.

First, has anybody any experience of using potassium citrate to try and treat kidney stones in rabbits? My rabbit has kidney stones and is on this, but I can't find anything I understand on the internet about it. As I understand it, it is to slow the growth of the stones, not to decrease the size of the ones there - is this right?

AND my rabbit has just had the most horrible weekend. On Friday afternoon she was fine, by Friday evening very quiet. Still quiet on Saturday, lying in the same place, not eating and leaning against everything (she lay leaned against the wall, if I picked her up she leaned against me..). So I took her to the vet where she got a painkiller into the muscle, also metacam and metaclopramide. Took her home, more metaclopramide throughout the day. She ate a very little, was still in pain. On Sunday I was starting tho think it may be the end. Got her on the table to give her her metaclopramide injection and try to entice her to eat. Fed her sugar-water from a syringe, she had a wee, then suddenly started eating. Put her on the floor and she went straight for the cat flap, out into the garden and started eating leaves. It was like a miracle. She is not EXACTLY back to normal, but is so much better. My question is - is this kidney stones? Could one move around and cause pain and then move back? Both the vet & I assumed it was, but now I am wondering... her teeth are OK (checked in the last month) and her stomach felt normal (vet had a feel). Any ideas?

Lucy
 
How Potassium Citrate works

Potassium citrate attaches to calcium in the urine, preventing the formation of mineral crystals that can develop into kidney stones. It prevents the urine from becoming too acidic and has been used for many years in humans for this purpose. This helps prevent uric acid or cystine kidney stones from forming.

Potassium citrate may prevent the formation of: Calcium stones in people who have too little citrate in their urine. Uric acid stones or cystine stones in people who have urine that is too acidic.

The liquid form of potassium citrate may cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, or gas in humans .... the effects on animals I am not familiar with. In humans you may be able to reduce or prevent side effects commonly caused by potassium citrate, such as nausea, bloating, or gas, by adding water to the medicine or taking it with food. Im unsure about how this effects animals.

The reaction you are seeing from your rabbit could be as a result of side effects of bloat in your rabbit, if this happens in humans it is possible in rabbits.
 
Hello,

My mam has kidney stones so yes I can say that they cause alot of pain as the "Move through" the system. This might have been the reason for your buns pain at the weekend. I think that you do get some relief when the stones are moved/ passed.

Good luck with some treatment for the stones - sorry I don't have much else I can say!
 
I assume your Rabbits Kidney Stones were diagnosed by radiography-X-Ray/IVP (Intravenous pyelogram- an x-ray examination of the kidneys, ureters and urinary bladder that uses contrast material given IV)
Is it both Kidneys that are effected?
Is it stones within the kidney/kidney's or total calcification?
Has a blood test been taken to establish current renal function?

Its hard to make suggestions without knowing answers to the above. However, I would have thought ruling out any secondary urinary tract infection would be a start. Maybe your Bun has a secondary cystitis making weeing painful

Kidney stones, if thats what she has, are excrutiatingly painful so I would advise obtaining a concise diagnosis from a Rabbit Savvy Vet

Janex
 
Thanks for all your replies. I have read on the internet that the whole calcium-digestion and excretion thing is different in rabbits to humans, so I am worried about assuming that somethnig that is good for humans is good for her (otherwise I would be stuffing her full of all the remedies you can get in the health-food shop). She is still getting better from her horrible weekend and seems happy in herself, although she still isn't as greedy as she used to be (she is eating though).

Erbie's kidney stones were diagnosed by an X-ray. Both kidneys are affected. I am not sure what the difference is between 'stones within the kidneys' and 'total calcification' is, but I saw the X-rays and what it looked like was: the kidneys are small oval things, and around the edge is where all the nephrons (? it was along time since I did biology) are, and in the middle is a hole, and that hole is completely full of stone. Both kidneys are the same. She will have blood tests the test her renal function, but we are waiting for her to be a bit more cheery. At the same time the vet ill take some urine from her bladder and test it for bacteria.

I trust my vet, but he does say that he has never treated this in a rabbit before. He has consulted a rabbit specialist, but I am wondering whether to try to get a referral to the rabbit-vet in Bristol. I don't want to put Erbie through pointless travelling and treatment, but I want her to have the best chance. Can you tell me what exactly we are testing her kidney function for? Is it to plan future treatment, or to keep an eye on it so we can tell if it suddenly starts to fail? I think my vet himself is not that clear on this (he is following instructions from a rabbit specialist)

Does anybody know why they don't use ultrasound in rabbits like they do with people?
 
CrazyBun said:
Thanks for all your replies. I have read on the internet that the whole calcium-digestion and excretion thing is different in rabbits to humans, so I am worried about assuming that somethnig that is good for humans is good for her (otherwise I would be stuffing her full of all the remedies you can get in the health-food shop). She is still getting better from her horrible weekend and seems happy in herself, although she still isn't as greedy as she used to be (she is eating though).

Erbie's kidney stones were diagnosed by an X-ray. Both kidneys are affected. I am not sure what the difference is between 'stones within the kidneys' and 'total calcification' is, but I saw the X-rays and what it looked like was: the kidneys are small oval things, and around the edge is where all the nephrons (? it was along time since I did biology) are, and in the middle is a hole, and that hole is completely full of stone. Both kidneys are the same. She will have blood tests the test her renal function, but we are waiting for her to be a bit more cheery. At the same time the vet ill take some urine from her bladder and test it for bacteria.

I trust my vet, but he does say that he has never treated this in a rabbit before. He has consulted a rabbit specialist, but I am wondering whether to try to get a referral to the rabbit-vet in Bristol. I don't want to put Erbie through pointless travelling and treatment, but I want her to have the best chance. Can you tell me what exactly we are testing her kidney function for? Is it to plan future treatment, or to keep an eye on it so we can tell if it suddenly starts to fail? I think my vet himself is not that clear on this (he is following instructions from a rabbit specialist)

Does anybody know why they don't use ultrasound in rabbits like they do with people?
Click to expand...

They do use U/S in Rabbits BUT there are not that many Vets clued up enough on Bunny medicine to interpret the results.

Renal stones are called Nephroliths and are calcium deposits within the kidney

Calcified Kidneys are a form of Nephrolithiasis called Renal calcinosis. This is where the entire Kidney, including the cortex, has calcified.

As both Kidney's are effected it is likely that the condition will gradually deteriorate :( A blood test now to see how efficiently the damaged Kidneys are functioning will provide a baseline to work from and some prognosis for the next few weeks/months.
Surgery is possible, but with both Kidney's effected and renal function already likely to be compromised it is not something I would put a Bunny through.
I wish I could give a brighter outlook but Erbie does have a serious condition and I suspect treatment objectives will be to control pain, address secondary infection and assess quality of life. Obviously reducing calcium in the diet and ensuring good hydration are also needed.

If Erbie was my Rabbit then I think I would be looking at paliative care rather than endless tests and travelling to specialists. I am in a similar situation with a 'terminal' Bunny myself. It is not a nice place to be :cry:

Janex
 
Jane, thanks for your advice. It is not what I wanted to hear, but it is what I expected to hear, so thank you. You are right - this is the hardest place to be. I am sorry that you and your 'terminal' bunny are here too.
 
CrazyBun said:
Jane, thanks for your advice. It is not what I wanted to hear, but it is what I expected to hear, so thank you. You are right - this is the hardest place to be. I am sorry that you and your 'terminal' bunny are here too.
Click to expand...

I think we all accept that loving a Bunny means that we will have to go through the pain of losing them :cry:

Janex
 
but ultrasound has great success w/ human. Why not try it w/ ultrasound and break down the stone? I mean, if the illness were that serious, then what is there to lose?
 
That is a question I wonder too, and I don't know the answer, but I THINK, reading between the lines of all that I have read, that it is much harder for rabbits to pass crystals than for humans, so even if you break down the crystal it may not help much. But if anybody has a more certain reason I'd be glad to know.
 
I don't know how the details of that machine works. The principle is, it shatter the stone in small pieces, and it come out for a human thru its reproductive sys. But for a bunny, the question is, how tiny is the fragment?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

thebunnydad
Meloxicam and liver problems
Replies
7
Views
270
InspectorMorse
InspectorMorse
B
Abcess or possible tumour - UPDATE
Replies
16
Views
275
tonibun
T
S
My Rabbits broken leg advice
Replies
9
Views
314
Barn Yard Bunnies
Barn Yard Bunnies
Back
Top