Thinking Out Loud - long & rambling! Need opinions!

At the moment, at mine there are 25 bunnies. 13 are mine & live in 2 bonded pairs, & a bonded 9 (Baby bun now better & back in the group - although fed separately so i can keep an eye on her). I have a couple of outdoors buns - singles in hutches, & the rest are all in 3 other rooms (separate from my own buns). all 12 fosters are singles except for the 2 baby boys - there's been no fights yet & they are neutered so never had to separate - good job, cos not sure where they would go!! Of the 12 - there are 3 neutered boys & 2 spayed girls ready for rehoming by a Rescue (I think Jill knows about 4 of these). 2 are Birmingham buns (males), 2 are strays (a boy & a girl) & 1 is a gorgeous little English spot boy, who needs to be less timid - & the remaining 2 are Calel - biting bun & Treacle his girlfriend.

If we're honest - Calel & partner will stay here. His aggression is so odd - sometimes fine - weeks with nothing but nose rubs & licks & then he just goes psycho. i honestly wouldn't trust him with anyone. So that's 15 buns - in 4 groups.

Now the remaining un-neutereds (4 boys, 1 girl) are getting done at the end of November (payday ). So in theory, by mid December, i'll have 7 boys & 3 girls needing to be re-homed - 8 singles & a boy/boy pair - unless a Rescue decides a girlfriend would be better for them. Now ALL my time is taken cleaning out the caged buns. The bonded group of 9 are a breeze - floor sweep & litter tray empty daily, & I just disinfect stuff once a week. They're all on excel - so pellets every night, veg for brekkie & a bale of hay broken & shoved in every couple of days. I do feed Flint (tends to put on weight) & Kendra (too small & thin) seperately.
They have their own room, but I will have more space when the 10 have gone (I'm stopping free-adding ) In theory another 2 rooms, with the remaining room being for the pairs. (This is for when i am at work - when i'm home, I have buns running round the house & garden!!)
At the min with the cage cleaning - I'm getting to bed at about 1- 1.30am, & getting up at 5.30am. I have a horse too. I'm not complaining - I love the buns, but my time with them is spent cleaning/nail clipping etc, very little just "being" with them.

I just paid £400 for some vaccs(own buns only - none of fosters except Calel & Treacle are done) - . I'm timing it from now on, so that all buns will get vaccs at end of April & probably just annually - although i will see my bank balance situation every October.

Anyway the point of my ramblings What if I put a couple more into my bonded 9 :?: It would be giving some of my temp buns a forever home. Most of temp buns are caged for 12 hours a day as they have to share run-space & some of cages are too small - they are temporary after all - although buns like Dusk & Dawn have been here since early July - due to giving birth!!.

My job just changed, so I will have a couple of hours extra a day, NOT spent on the M1 :roll: , & financially - I'll do ok. I do have bunny insurance for up to 25 buns, although I'm thinking of cancelling & buying a pair of designer shoes every month - cos that would be cheaper!!
Time wise - I'll have more cos less caged buns.

Course this depends on the buns aswell - they may look at the 9 & say " no way am i living with that lot!!!" :lol: bearing in mind I'm "boy-heavy" - I only want to add in male/female pairs really, don't want to upset group dynamics & have too many of one sex.

ANYWAY!!! What do you guys think? I've had over 20 buns since early July. It was only ever meant to be a short term thing, but there's so many in Rescues & needing help at the min, that they may be here for a good while yet. But how does everyone feel about big bonded groups? Is it me being selfish? My 9 are fantastic. Smirnoff has come out of his shell now, & the quieter ones seem to copy the bolder ones - although i can see it wouldn't work for every bun. If there's more "no s" than "yes es" I'll leave all 10 as fosters :lol:

One thing that did concern me - all my buns are of a similar age. i don't have any "older" buns, or older bun experience - so it might be a bit of a shock when they all become pensioners together :?

And a quick space check - how much room should groups have?

hi bonding in is up to whether you're brave enought to try it! Jus to let youknow should be able to take 4 of the buns next week..so will free up some of your space!

honeybunny said:

hi bonding in is up to whether you're brave enought to try it! Jus to let youknow should be able to take 4 of the buns next week..so will free up some of your space!

Click to expand...

Which ones do you want? Then I'll exclude them from my in-my-head debate!! :lol:

There's the 2 baby boys neutered (1 black, 1 agouti - both small like Toffee - black one friendly, agouti timid), a black & white splodged large dwarf lop, then Dawn, the agouti mum, who's ears have now lopped almost completely - she's friendly once she gets to know you, & Dusk, the chocolate-y one that looks a bit lionhead-y but is Dawn's sister :lol:

I don't know how you manage them all! :shock:
I couldn't cope with any more than my four at the moment. They are all due for vaccinations soon as well as the cat and that is going to cost me about £150.
I know there are loads in rescues and needing homes but i think its better to spend quality time with the ones you have rather than cramming in as many as you can. Its a sad fact but there will never be enough homes for all the rescue buns while breeding carries on.
Also important to think about what you would do if you became ill and couldn't look after them and what your long term plans for the future are.

I remember a thread about large groups a while back and a couple of people saying that oncce you go past four or five they just don't notice any more going in! If you've manahed nine then I don't see why you shouldn't try putting in a couple more so long as there will be enough room for them all. It certainly sounds like it would benefit you time wise and the buns socially (if they get on!).
Having said that, I only have a group of four, so what do I know :lol: Just my unqualified opinion :wink:

Estelle said:

I know there are loads in rescues and needing homes but i think its better to spend quality time with the ones you have rather than cramming in as many as you can..

Click to expand...

I'd agree - & i wouldn't approach a Rescue & get more buns now - but these are already here & having my time, if you know what i mean.

Estelle said:

Also important to think about what you would do if you became ill and couldn't look after them and what your long term plans for the future are.

Click to expand...

That is a very good point. If i died, My horse is sorted for a home, but i don't know what would happen with the buns. I would imagine the group would be split & re-homed. :? & as for future - no one comes between me & my buns!! I'm not someone who would re-home my "kids" unless - like you said I got really, really ill.
I swear it's easier keeping then loose than in cages!!

Angie from the ones you've offered above looks like there's five..so one more won't matter too much.... so should be able to take all you mentioned in the 3rd post!
Black/white dwarf lop..what sex?

honeybunny said:

Angie from the ones you've offered above looks like there's five..so one more won't matter too much.... so should be able to take all you mentioned in the 3rd post!
Black/white dwarf lop..what sex?

Click to expand...

There is 5 ready (neutered) but just wanted to know which one you DIDN'T want :lol: Wasn't trying to slip another in :lol:

Lop is male. lovely :thumb:

Angie65 said:

honeybunny said:

Angie from the ones you've offered above looks like there's five..so one more won't matter too much.... so should be able to take all you mentioned in the 3rd post!
Black/white dwarf lop..what sex?

Click to expand...

There is 5 ready (neutered) but just wanted to know which one you DIDN'T want :lol: Wasn't trying to slip another in :lol:

Lop is male. lovely :thumb:

Click to expand...

5 will be fine...I may bond some into pairs

I won't need to keep any then!! Will just the get the others neutered in a couple of weeks

Will I have... Dare I say it... free time?!!! :lol:

Angie65 said:

That is a very good point. If i died, My horse is sorted for a home, but i don't know what would happen with the buns. I would imagine the group would be split & re-homed. :? & as for future - no one comes between me & my buns!! I'm not someone who would re-home my "kids" unless - like you said I got really, really ill.
I swear it's easier keeping then loose than in cages!!

Click to expand...

I'm so glad someone else refers to their rabbits as 'kids'. Me and o/h always refer to them in this way but O've never admitted it to anyone

I have no way near enough knowledge on these sort of things but...I think its great you've got so many, don't they live in massive groups in the wild anyway? I'd love to have that many if it was at all possible. SO in my uneducated idealistic opinion, I'd add more to the group, its better than them being alone/in a cage.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

What we found with our group is once its got to about 9 they don't tend to notice, they complain if you have too many males though, but you can have more females than males, we got to a 2:1 ratio female:male, although we have got less than that now.

If you're trying to decide which ones to add it's easier to add bunnies who have no tendencies towards wanting to be dominant otherwise you are more likely to get some fighting.

It takes up so much less time having 18 in one group than trying to feed and clean them separately though

One thing is as they get older they do get harder, ours are all getting middle aged now and we've got a couple of ill ones, trying to keep a bunny whose had a stroke and liable to fall over and kick other bunnies without meaning to separate enough not to hurt anybun but close enough to see the others all the time starts being difficult trying to arrange a cage in their area so they can see each other but not always contact each other without supervision...

There's also the old problem when you loose one of I obviously had room for 18 before therefore I've got room for another one now!

Claire

:lol: I read your post Angie and it could have been me writing it! I've started doing overtime to cover costs, which means I have less free time too. And like you I find the bonded 7 a breeze to clean out whereas the smaller groups seem to take a lot longer. I too have 25 at the mo, Jenny and Jerry and their babies will soon be moved but we have or rather are in the process of building a bunny hotel at the bottom of the garden. There's 10 hutch run combos in there 4ft x 2ft hutches over 5.5ft x 4ft runs and they have been built so that they can be combined, so I can have a 12ft x 2ft hutch and a 12ft x 5.5ft run for the bigger group. I am hoping to bond all of mine eventually so will open up the whole of one side of the shed for my lot and have the five on the other side for fosters. So in answer to your question I think big bonded groups are great!! And I think it is great for the buns too. My strop of a bun Shadow has become "mum" having gone from eating any bun that dared come near her, and Sam, who wasn't really a sociable bun, is best buds with Charlie, can't seperate them for a minute and he's come on loads. I guess it doesn't work for every bun but in the wild they live in groups so as long as they have enough space to get away from each other should one of them have a bad day I say go for it!!
With regards to space I'm not sure what the "ideal" is but I'm giving mine the space I said above and they get to run round the garden a lot of the daylight time of day cos my husband works from home and I do nights a lot I'm around during the day.