Does not vaccinating and neutering make a bad rescue?

Have read a few things about 'rescue standards' over the last few weeks that I have thought have been very unfair.

There are several rescues that due to lack of funds and the HUGE number of rabbits that take in, are unable to vaccinate and neuter all their rabbits. It seems that in some peoples eyes this makes them a bad or not very good rescue and opens them up to criticism.

I completely disagree with this and think it is incredibly judgemental.
In an ideal, money-no-problem world of course they would all be vaccinated and neutered fully, but where would many desperately in need rabbits be without these rescues? (I am NOT saying that those rescues who do neuter and vaccinate do not have money problems also.)

Yes, they could have a waiting list so take in less rabbits, but some rescues I know of say they are reluctant to do this as when they call to say there is a place, the bun has gone

Some of these rescues have been running for many many years and do not receive much in way of donations or even adoption fees but still perservere and offer a safe haven for buns that may otherwise be in danger/neglect etc

So anyway, this is my not very eloquent way of saying that, Im obviously not a rescue, but i think it would be nice if everyone could work together to help buns

In an ideal world all Rescues would have enough funds to neuter and vaccinate every rabbit they take in. But as you say, some Rescues do have a huge intake, poor funding and so just cannot meet that criteria.

So what do they do :?
Turn Rabbits away to an unknown fate
Insist on very large donations to take in a rabbit (which many people wont pay)

I am very much pro neutering and vaccinating BUT I can also understand how impossible this is for some Rescues. Not really sure what the solution is :? But I dont think making some Rescues feel 'bad' because they cant attain 'perfection' is very helpful.
Perhaps the Rescues who do manage to afford to neuter and vaccinate all intakes could put together tips as to how they have achieved this and share the info' with Rescues who struggle :? :?

Janex

Coincidentally I'm trying to put together some rules/guidelines/code that I'd to set up so rescues have to agree to before being listed on RR. so far I've come up with:

Vaccinate or promote vaccination of all adopted rabbits against VHD and myxomatosis.

Neuter or promote the neutering of all adopted rabbits.

Never to breed from rabbits taken into rescue.

Provide prompt medical attention for sick or injured animals in care of the rescue.

Provide clean water and hay at all times.

Provide suitable accommodation and exercise space for rabbits in care and promote the RSPCA and RWA recommended minimum hutch sizes.

Keep accurate records of the rabbits in care and use adoption contracts to ensure new owners understand their responsibilities.

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The trouble is that not all 'rescues' give out good advice and that makes more work for rescues and means confususion for the public. If you go to one rescue and they say 'nope you can't keep rabbits together' and another says 'we only rehome rabbits together' how does a prospective new owner tell which is right?

I'm also putting some articles together for rescues which I hope people will help me send out to places that maybe need a little guidence.

The trouble is that it's very easy for a rescue to become a place rabbits needs to be rescued from. Yes, turning a rabbit away could mean it's furtures uncertain but their is a limit to the numbers you can take before the standards start to drop. More than one of the big rescue efforts for tens of bunnies have come from places where the people started out helping out taking in bunnies and never said no.

The biggest rescue in the country deals with a thousand bunnies a year - all neutered and vaccs. I don't think rescues that can't are bad, and as you say their aren't enough places in rescue to be fussy BUT if the rescue doesn't then they should take other steps to ensure it's done e.g. making it part of the adoption agreement, not rehoming unneutered buns to live in households with other unneutered buns etc.

Tam

Tamsin said:

Coincidentally I'm trying to put together some rules/guidelines/code that I'd to set up so rescues have to agree to before being listed on RR. so far I've come up with:

Vaccinate or promote vaccination of all adopted rabbits against VHD and myxomatosis.

Neuter or promote the neutering of all adopted rabbits.

Never to breed from rabbits taken into rescue.

Provide prompt medical attention for sick or injured animals in care of the rescue.

Provide clean water and hay at all times.

Provide suitable accommodation and exercise space for rabbits in care and promote the RSPCA and RWA recommended minimum hutch sizes.

Keep accurate records of the rabbits in care and use adoption contracts to ensure new owners understand their responsibilities.

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The trouble is that not all 'rescues' give out good advice and that makes more work for rescues and means confususion for the public. If you go to one rescue and they say 'nope you can't keep rabbits together' and another says 'we only rehome rabbits together' how does a prospective new owner tell which is right?

I'm also putting some articles together for rescues which I hope people will help me send out to places that maybe need a little guidence.

The trouble is that it's very easy for a rescue to become a place rabbits needs to be rescued from. Yes, turning a rabbit away could mean it's furtures uncertain but their is a limit to the numbers you can take before the standards start to drop. More than one of the big rescue efforts for tens of bunnies have come from places where the people started out helping out taking in bunnies and never said no.

The biggest rescue in the country deals with a thousand bunnies a year - all neutered and vaccs. I don't think rescues that can't are bad, and as you say their aren't enough places in rescue to be fussy BUT if the rescue doesn't then they should take other steps to ensure it's done e.g. making it part of the adoption agreement, not rehoming unneutered buns to live in households with other unneutered buns etc.

Tam

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Those guidelines are excellent
Sorry, I was thinking, but didnt say, that of course rescues that cannot afford vacs and neuterings would have an agreement that the new owner would get this done

And of course there truly are 'bad' rescues which may breed or not provide medical attention, but I was more talking about ones that do achieve everything in your guidelines, but struggle when it comes to paying for vacs and neuters :wink:

Jack's-Jane said:

Perhaps the Rescues who do manage to afford to neuter and vaccinate all intakes could put together tips as to how they have achieved this and share the info' with Rescues who struggle :? :?

Janex

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good idea

What about homechecking? Isn't that one of the key things to rehoming rabbits? I really think that all rescues should homecheck.
And I have to say that I think ther ARE some bad rescues. One of my rabbits came from a rescue that didn't nueter or vaccinate or homecheck or give any information about rabbits. I simply phoned to ask when I could go ans see the rabbits and was allowed to take away any one I wanted - she didn't even ask for a specific donation and seemed surprised when I gave her one. At the time I wasn't aware of all the other rescues and I wouldn't use that one again. Its no better than giving them away in the freeads to the first caller.

Agree with Sally! The place I homechecked locally for Chloe had a giant in a 4ft hutch - and they got her from a rescue (incidentally I think it was the same one that Sally was talking about!). To me, that goes to show how absolutely critical homechecking is; people are very good at talking the right talk but it often doesn't follow through into practice - Eve says she turns away more people than she accepts and I think this is quite right! It's all very well having a neutered and vaccinated rabbit but if it's going to live the rest of its life in unsuitable accommodation, then I think that is less use than having an unneutered rabbit in superb accommodation!

I think those guidelines by Tam are excellent - my only concern is what happens to the rabbits in rescues that cannot sign up to these guidelines for whatever reason - are the buns likely to stay in rescue for much longer if this route of 'advertising' (which in itself is perhaps more likely to generate better homes than the freeads) is removed from them?

Sally and Alison, both valid points

BUT...I was really only talking about rescues who cannot afford vaccinating and neutering, perhaps the post title is misleading. (edit: changed now).

For example I mean KatieB's rescue, Bowden Bunny Rescue who have had a bit of stick recently because they cannot afford to neuter and vaccinate all, which I think is totally unfair.

I was trying to offer support to rescues like Katie's

[devils advocate]
But homechecking is another major source of expense to rescues - are photos not enough?
Also, If a rescue home check a home, and decide the owners aren't up to it, chances are they might just go to a pet shop and buy a bun there instead of taking a bun from a rescue, fueling the breeders rather than rehoming an unwanted bun[/devils advocate]

It's a big 'ole catch 22. You want to make it easy enough for people to adopt from rescues to encourage them to do so (instead of buying from pet shops or breeders), but you want to make it difficult enough so that 'bad' owners buy from pet shops instead of taking buns on from rescues.

I suppose i'm guilty of being a 'bad' owner - my 2 nethie dwarf/dutches lived in a hutch that's definetly not the size recommended by the RSPCA, so that qualifies me to be a bad owner. So I suppose I wouldn't have been able to have rescue buns before (had I tried). But I don't think that would have prevented me from buying the buns I did from the pet shop.

I suppose in an ideal world, there would be enough ideal homes for rescues buns. But i'm guessing there aren't. So is it better to let buns go out to homes that aren't ideal, or keep the buns at the rescue.
How do rescues cope with the fact that the world isn't ideal? Do they refuse to acknowledge that it isn't and categorise owners as 'good' or 'bad' and refuse to rehome to non-ideals, or do they acknowledge that the world isn't ideal, so the best chance of a home for a bun isn't always ideal, but at least rehoming an unwanted bun is better than taking on a pet shop or breeders bun?

sorry - this ended up being very long winded.... I guess i'm thinking about it while I write it....

woodstock said:

Also, If a rescue home check a home, and decide the owners aren't up to it, chances are they might just go to a pet shop and buy a bun there instead of taking a bun from a rescue, fueling the breeders rather than rehoming an unwanted bun

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True, but by the same token, you could argue that if someone contacted a rescue saying they wanted some rabbits so they could make a nice stew, the rescue should give them one, because they are going to go off and get one from somewhere else to kill instead anyway. There's also a difference between 'not ideal' and blatantly 'unsuitable'. Not ideal can be got round in a variety of ways, for example if the care and accommodation is good but a little unorthodox.

I know I have only rescued one at a time, but if a rabbit is in my care, I feel it is my responsibility to ensure that it only goes to a suitable home, and think that homechecking is a vital part of that. Photos are ok, but they only show what the person has shown to photograph, and not necessarily the whole picture.

AlisonA said:

I think those guidelines by Tam are excellent - my only concern is what happens to the rabbits in rescues that cannot sign up to these guidelines for whatever reason - are the buns likely to stay in rescue for much longer if this route of 'advertising' (which in itself is perhaps more likely to generate better homes than the freeads) is removed from them?

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I don't stop anyone listing a rabbits details on RR but there are some rescues that I have removed from the page listing rescue centres in the past. Whilst the rabbits in those rescue deserve good homes (hence they are allowed to list them) I wouldn't be comfortable recommending them as a rescue to people wanting to rehome their own rabbits. I can't close them down but I'm not going to encourage people to drop their bunnies of at rescues that don't get vet attention for the rabbits that need it. It has to be pretty extreme to be removed not just not neutering/vaccs.

The guidelines are very very basic so I can't really think of a reason they should be a problem. That's why I've put things like:

Neuter or promote the neutering of all adopted rabbits.

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So if they don't neuter themselves they need to encourage the adopters to do so e.g. give them advice or make it part of the agreement. I think everyone should be able to manage that?

It's still very much a draft those so any imput you have on adding/altering them is very welcome

Tam

Tamsin said:

'So if they don't neuter themselves ':shock: :shock:

'they need to encourage the adopters to do so' :shock: :shock:



Tam

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I am REALLY sorry Tam BUT...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll go and sit on the 'naughty step' now....

Janex

Tamsin said:

I don't stop anyone listing a rabbits details on RR but there are some rescues that I have removed from the page listing rescue centres in the past.

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Aaahh ok, sorry that was me misreading what you meant! I was thinking that rescues would have to agree to those before being able to list rabbits, but you're talking about being listed on the rescue page, yes?

i will throw myself on the fire now as I have taken lots of stick in the past,

I now neuter whatever I can as most people agree it does get costly for a small rescue but I have now found a good cheap vet, if any go out un neutered then I make the owners sign the adoption paperwork that tamsin set up for me and yes people do this amazingly enough,

I don't homecheck as i simply do not have the time but nearly every adopter who has been has brought pics of the accom and garden and all sorts of details, as for problems after rehoming only 2 have come back in the last 18 months and that was purely because the owners moved away,

I think now most people are buying big hutches and runs and giving them lots of space to live in,

I now even find people come back for another so I am doing something right.

and to put it simply unless they are really not right if you refuse they will go to a pet shop for one anyway.

I have found a simple way to weed out the unsutable ones tell them they have to have a homecheck and 9 times of 10 they will say they will have a think about it.

Maybe I am lucky that I have had only lovely new people to come

i will throw myself on the fire now as I have taken lots of stick in the past,

I now neuter whatever I can as most people agree it does get costly for a small rescue but I have now found a good cheap vet, if any go out un neutered then I make the owners sign the adoption paperwork that tamsin set up for me and yes people do this amazingly enough,

I don't homecheck as i simply do not have the time but nearly every adopter who has been has brought pics of the accom and garden and all sorts of details, as for problems after rehoming only 2 have come back in the last 18 months and that was purely because the owners moved away,

I think now most people are buying big hutches and runs and giving them lots of space to live in,

I now even find people come back for another so I am doing something right.

and to put it simply unless they are really not right if you refuse they will go to a pet shop for one anyway.

I have found a simple way to weed out the unsutable ones tell them they have to have a homecheck and 9 times of 10 they will say they will have a think about it.

Maybe I am lucky that I have had only lovely new people to come

i will throw myself on the fire now as I have taken lots of stick in the past,

I now neuter whatever I can as most people agree it does get costly for a small rescue but I have now found a good cheap vet, if any go out un neutered then I make the owners sign the adoption paperwork that tamsin set up for me and yes people do this amazingly enough,

I don't homecheck as i simply do not have the time but nearly every adopter who has been has brought pics of the accom and garden and all sorts of details, as for problems after rehoming only 2 have come back in the last 18 months and that was purely because the owners moved away,

I think now most people are buying big hutches and runs and giving them lots of space to live in,

I now even find people come back for another so I am doing something right.

and to put it simply unless they are really not right if you refuse they will go to a pet shop for one anyway.

I have found a simple way to weed out the unsutable ones tell them they have to have a homecheck and 9 times of 10 they will say they will have a think about it.

Maybe I am lucky that I have had only lovely new people to come

elaine said:

i will throw myself on the fire now as I have taken lots of stick in the past,

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Hiya Elaine

I dont think any can criticise you for anything you are doing, I admire you for talking so honestly about your situation and perspectives You have made some changes about how you run your rescue over the past few months, and this shows you have an open mind and are willing to take new ideas in board The problems arise when people are so set in their ways, and not open to change. I think I see things differently in how I run the Sanctuary to how I did 8 years ago, so it has been a learning curve for me too :wink:
As you say, there is not a perfect scenario, but as long as basic standards are met (and Tamsins points are a great basis for this :wink: ) then there has to be some flexibilty for individual rescues.
Best wishes
Adele

elaine said:

I have found a simple way to weed out the unsutable ones tell them they have to have a homecheck and 9 times of 10 they will say they will have a think about it.

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The problem I see with that, is that doesn't weed out the ones who think they are suitable but in actual fact aren't, and judging by some of the homecheck stories I've heard, and done myself, there seem to be quite a lot who fall into this category! (for example the one I home checked for Chloe were very happy to be homechecked but there is no way I would let her go there, the one that Jill honeybunny did where there were maggots in the filthy hutch, even though they knew she was coming, one Eve did where the rabbit was so overweight it could barely breathe "it's always been like that" etc!) etc etc... Sometimes people are very blind to the reality of their own situations.

Personally I just couldn't give a bun away without having either homechecked myself or trusted someone else to have been, seen and 'approved'. Just my opinion :wink:

AlisonA said:

elaine said:

I have found a simple way to weed out the unsutable ones tell them they have to have a homecheck and 9 times of 10 they will say they will have a think about it.

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Personally I just couldn't give a bun away without having either homechecked myself or trusted someone else to have been, seen and 'approved'. Just my opinion :wink:

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I agree with this Alison :wink:

I agree with you alison in a ideal world I would love to be able to do everything