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info about EC?

B

bunnylove

Wise Old Thumper
i have had a call from someone who had two rabbits one has sadly died of Ec :cry: Now the lady wants a partner for the exsisting bunny.. now she has waited 6 weeks and the vet didnt treat the existing bunny with panacar because he said the bunny was not showing any signs of it and he believes that it lowers the effectiveness of the treatment if she has already had a course.....

is any of that true? and is it safe to bond another partner to that bunny???

sorry i know little about EC, so would like to advise her best i can

thanks Eve x
 
I would not want to bond a Bunny known to have had contact with a CONFIRMED case of EC without treating 'in contact Bunny' with Panacur first.
Or they could have a series of blood tests done on 'in contact' bunny to see if a rising positive EC titre is found. One positive blood test for EC does NOT confirm active infection in an ASYMPTOMATIC Rabbit, hence a seies of tests are needed. This would probably cost about £80-£100as the blood samples have to be sent out to a Vet-Lab which is always more pricey than 'in house' blood profiles.

If I were in that situation I'd want in contact Bun treated then I'd feel happy about finding him/her a friend.

Janex
 
thanks jane

so you wouldnt go with the advice of the vet and say that the panacar becomes less effective after use?
 
bunnylove said:
thanks jane

so you wouldnt go with the advice of the vet and say that the panacar becomes less effective after use?
Click to expand...

I would go by the advice of MY Vet who always treats Buns known to have contact with EC.
I cant see how Panacur can become 'less effective' as its an Anthelminitic (wormer)... :? :?

Janex
 
Worms/Ec can/will become resistant to panacur if it is over used, however it will take several years - I don't think any resistance cases have been reported yet.

Obviously there is an issue if the treatment is started and they do have an unsymptomatic Ec infection but it is stopped before all the parasites are dead then it is possible the ones that are left are going to be pretty resistant and very hardy therefore if they multiply up and the bunny starts getting symptomatic infection Panacur would be tried but it wouldn't be as effective because only the hardy parasites are left causing the infection.

The above is speculation though based on similar resistance profiles in bacteria (hence why your doctor always tells you to finish the course of antibiotics even if you feel better already).

However in this case the bunny has been exposed to a confirmed case so I would treat it (I think it is 28days for Ec @ 0.5ml/Kg, 10% soln) as a preventative measure. Most rabbits would test positive for Ec antibodies as they will have been exposed at some point as mentioned above only a rising titre from two samples taken a few weeks apart indicates an active infection. Many bunnies can carry it and not show symptoms (just a mild infection) until their immune system becomes stressed by something else then the Ec can multiply causing a symptomatic infection so I am starting to wonder about whether regular worming of rabbits should be commonplace!

Caz
 
Caz said:
However in this case the bunny has been exposed to a confirmed case so I would treat it (I think it is 28days for Ec @ 0.5ml/Kg, 10% soln) as a preventative measure. Most rabbits would test positive for Ec antibodies as they will have been exposed at some point as mentioned above only a rising titre from two samples taken a few weeks apart indicates an active infection. Many bunnies can carry it and not show symptoms (just a mild infection) until their immune system becomes stressed by something else then the Ec can multiply causing a symptomatic infection so I am starting to wonder about whether regular worming of rabbits should be commonplace!

Caz
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you Caz, I too have wonder whether buns should automatically be treated as a precautionary measure. Considering the parasite is carried through urine spores too makes grass runs very vulnerable as well as not well cleaned hutches. I have thought long and hard about this as most rabbits are carriers anyway and as Caz has said, stress can trigger the multitude of symptons that can so easily be overlooked as being an EC case.

Any of your buns in your rescue could have it Eve so I would advise this person get their bun treated and treat the potential new partner at the same time :wink: so when the bonded starts they should be reletively clear :wink: :)

It is something to consider for the future as no-one really knows the full full back ground as to the 'rabbit in need' or what circumstances the rabbit was living in ie: dirty soiled hutch (a prime target for ec spores)
 
I thought it was 0.2mg/kg at 10% solution - I can't really remember though either so best check properly :wink:

Eve the last bun I had tested for EC was around £25, but as Jane says it's based on antibodies so you need more than one test to determine whether or not it's an active infection.

I'd also suggest doing the month of panacur before introducing to another bun - if they lived together it's highly likely that the other bun has picked it up (all it would take would be the other bun urinating on some hay which the other bun then ate) even if not showing as an active infection. EC can be such a nasty infection I don't think it's worth the risk :?
 
ok i will advise her to treat, was just unsure if it was a god idea giving a reputable vet advised against it :?
 
Eve, I had a few problems with Marcel de Bun a few months back and my vet automatically treated for EC and a few other things rather than wait for test results because if it was EC then he would not have made it by the time the test results came in :wink: She also treated Eddie bun as being as they are bonded so that I would not have a vicious circle of EC should it have been that that Marcel de Bun had got :wink: :D
 
AlisonA said:
I thought it was 0.2mg/kg at 10% solution - I can't really remember though either so best check properly :wink:

Eve the last bun I had tested for EC was around £25, but as Jane says it's based on antibodies so you need more than one test to determine whether or not it's an active infection.

I'd also suggest doing the month of panacur before introducing to another bun - if they lived together it's highly likely that the other bun has picked it up (all it would take would be the other bun urinating on some hay which the other bun then ate) even if not showing as an active infection. EC can be such a nasty infection I don't think it's worth the risk :?
Click to expand...

On this thread they said 0.5ml/kg http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9860 but rabbit refs http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rx/drugcalc.html reckons 0.2mg/kg for a 10% solution!

Can anyone confirm which is correct? Probably best to check with a vet anyway!

Caz
 
20mg/kg a day for 28 days.

Ref:Notes on Rabbit Internal Medcine- Saunders and Rees Davies MRCVS

and Textbook of Rabbit Medicine -Frances Harcourt-Brown.

10% Panacur= 100mg/ml of fenbendazole.

Janex
 
Looks like we are agreed then :wink: !

That's the one drawback in being able to order a lot of these meds off the internet now they don't always come with proper bunny dosage guidlines as most of them were developed for cats/dogs etc, whereas if you did get them via the vet at least you would be given the correct dosage (you hope) but have to pay triple the price + consultation charges.

Caz
 
Caz said:
Looks like we are agreed then :wink: !

That's the one drawback in being able to order a lot of these meds off the internet now they don't always come with proper bunny dosage guidlines as most of them were developed for cats/dogs etc, whereas if you did get them via the vet at least you would be given the correct dosage (you hope) but have to pay triple the price + consultation charges.

Caz
Click to expand...


where do you buy it on line then? and just a thought but can a urine test be done for this? if not is it possible for a vet to take blood without GA?

Eve x
 
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