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Abortion in rabbits

raven_guest

Mama Doe
I read something on here that really upset me the other day and was just wondering, do rescues have a cut off date for when they will spay a pregnant female?
Will they still do it if she is a few days off giving birth?
And what are the people who do this' opinions on abortion in people?
I personally think if the doe is heavily pregnant then it is murder to spay her and kill her babies, sorry if that offends or is contraversial, but that's how I feel.
I understand rescues are full and struggle to cope with babies and that they are constantly having more and more pregnant rabbits dumped on them, but surely there must be a point where you're not just spaying a doe, you're killing innocent kits?
 
I personally am for abortion in people & animals if it is a neccessity for emotional, financial or health reasons.
I feel that it is the womans right to choose whether she feels ready to go through with a pregnancy or not, unwanted or not. Some women (a small minority) do use it as a means of contraception which is awful but at the end of the day they will have to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives.

In animals I think we as their carers have to make the decision, it may not be right morally for some people but I personally would have an early pregnancy aborted in any animal if its likely the babies will struggle to find a decent home. I'd rather they weren't brought into this world if I couldn't guarantee a caring home for life. Which is virtually never in my opinion!
But I have to say I wouldn't abort if the animal was in the last trimester of pregnancy.
Ive was a vet nurse for 10 years so have been involved in alot & it isn't nice but at the same time you have to think of the future of those homeless animals.

Neuter all the way & hassle ANYONE who has a pet that isn't! I have no shame doing it! lol
 
I agree with you 100%
There is NO WAY in a billion years I could have a Doe that I KNEW to be pregnant, spayed. It sickens me to think of it.
I even have misgivings about it being done as an emergency spay a few days after an accidental mating.
I too do not wish to offend those who disagree and am expressing a personal opinion. I think spaying a Rabbit late on in the gestation period is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG.

Thank you for highlighting this as I too read what you are refering to and was very upset by it :cry:

Janex
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I agree it is probably worse for the poor kits to have no homes to go to, but spaying in the latter stages of pregnancy just horrifies me.
 
I have my personal views on this subject in both humans and animals. This is a subject that interests me and I will be watching this thread to see differing opinions.
 
I to couldn't let a doe have a abortion so near to the end of her pregnancy and I would definately make space in the rescue until they found suitable homes no matter how full I was.Tinkerbell was born in January this year when her mum came in pregnant and she is still with me.
 
I agree mostly with Jane here but I do think if you know exactly when the doe was mated an emergency spay a few days after the mating is OK as at that stage in the pregnancy the babies will only be cells.

I personally wouldn’t spay any doe of mine who I thought to be pregnant even if the mating took place a few days ago. I would see it as my responsibility to care for any babies as a result of the pregnancy.

Obviously there are circumstances when it would endanger a doe’s life to carry a pregnancy so spaying is necessary in this case.

Louise
 
I think if it was early - for example I knew when a buck and doe had been together and was able to book an appointment pretty much straight away, then I would go ahead with that. I would be more uncomfortable with it later on in pregnancy though - I wouldn't have healthy baby bunnies PTS just because everywhere was already full, so I don't see that formed babies in the womb should be any different.

It's interesting and has made me think, though, because I don't agree with human abortion. I know there are occasional extenuating circumstances where it really is necessary, and would never condemn anyone who has already had it done as it can't be an easy decision, but I do feel that far too much emphasis is put on the rights of the woman, and not on the rights of the baby. The fact that a doctor could theoretically abort one foetus, then go into the next room and save the life of a premature baby of exactly the same age, I find sickening, and to me proves that it is a life, whether in a womb or not.
 
AlisonA said:
I think if it was early - for example I knew when a buck and doe had been together and was able to book an appointment pretty much straight away, then I would go ahead with that. I would be more uncomfortable with it later on in pregnancy though - I wouldn't have healthy baby bunnies PTS just because everywhere was already full, so I don't see that formed babies in the womb should be any different.

It's interesting and has made me think, though, because I don't agree with human abortion. I know there are occasional extenuating circumstances where it really is necessary, and would never condemn anyone who has already had it done as it can't be an easy decision, but I do feel that far too much emphasis is put on the rights of the woman, and not on the rights of the baby. The fact that a doctor could theoretically abort one foetus, then go into the next room and save the life of a premature baby of exactly the same age, I find sickening, and to me proves that it is a life, whether in a womb or not.

Very well said Alison :thumb:

Janex
 
I couldn't do it, I don't think I could live with my self :? everytime I looked at my bun I would think of the babies she could have had and feel so bad :cry: it's not like she could have made the decision for her self :?
 
I was contacted by a lady yesterday who has 3 un-neutered ( :roll: ) buns. 1 Buck and 2 Does. She explained that the Buck 'some-how managed to get at the Does' :roll: and her Vet has advised she get the Does spayed. The lady said she felt very uncomfortable about this advice.
I said that although it is advice often given I personally would not do it.
I am not certain when the accidental matings occured but the thought of spaying a Doe at an advanced stage of pregnancy horrifies me :cry:
I bet SOME Vets may refuse to do it :?

Janex
 
I completely agree with emergency spaying after an 'accident' for example, surely that's the same as a woman taking the morning after pill, but when something is fully formed and ready to be born, I feel it's completely different.

As for human abortion, I don't know how I feel, there are some stupid stupid people going out and having 15 kids before they're 30 and scrounging off the government, I personally think some of them should be sterilised, but aborting a child that's done nothing wrong....it's not fair to punish the child for a parents carelessness.
But if a woman is raped I feel abortion is an option that should be considered. If I grew up to find I was the result of a rape, I would probably end my life.

*The following may be found distressing*
When I was in America, there was a documentary or election campaign (they seem to be filmed in the same way when a politician is trying to use something to their advantage) about some hospital that will kill full term babies. They will insert gauze and padding into the opening of a woman and increase the amount each day so the opening grew bigger just as it would when she was ready to go into labour. The doctor would then take the baby out until it's whole body, except for the head, were out of the mum. They would then take a pair of forceps and force them into the back of the babies skull whilest it was still in the mother. Aparently there is a legal loop hole that it isn't murder if the child is still in the mother. Obviously it is something that is done out of practice hours and in secret, but some doctors were doing it for a lot of money for desperate mothers.
I couldn't fathom it. If you're willing to go that far, why not give birth and give the child up for adoption! But this politician was campaigning to get it stopped.
*End*


Are there laws or veterinary codes that have a cut off for spaying/abortion in animals? Or is it down to the personal choice of the vet?
 
Good grief that American issue is TERRIBLE!! :shock: :cry:

As for Veterinary abortion limits I guess its up to the Vet.
I am sure some would have a real problem with carying out late abortions..... :?

Janex
 
American thing is shocking :shock: :shock: How that can't be classed as murder I'll never know :evil:
 
I think rabbit owners like humans should know the options. I'm always wary when a total stranger comes to me for advise about an accidental mating that they'll be anti-abortion and get mad when I suggest the option. I do think they should be told the choice.

I think in early pregnancy then spaying is generally the best option for the female rabbit.

In some case such as uneven sized rabbits then it might be the best option even in later pregnancy. If you know that mum is unlikely to be able to give birth then it may be the only way to prevent pregnancy killing her. A spay is a much safer op than an emergency c-section.

The truth is rescues have limited resources - if you decide to save the cells then it means you have to turn away some adult bunnies.

How about in this situation - In the states euthanisia due to lack of space in shelters is much more common. Staff often have to pick which rabbits have had their chance and get euthanised to fit in new emergencies. A pregnant rabbit may mean that other rabbits at the shelter are euthanised to make space for the babies when they are born. So the option of 'euthanising' fetuses or euthanising healthy adult rabbits is a very real choice. Which would you pick then?

How many of the situations where one accidental mating turns into a group of 100 sick and overcrowded rabbits would an emergency spay stop.

If you can deal with the babies then that's one thing but for rescues I can certainly see why emergency spayed are the best option.

Tam
 
I think if its done in the early stages of pregnancy then it is acceptable- this goes for human or animal x
 
I've participated in a lot of debates and etc regarding abortion in humans but I've never really considered it in animals.

Personally for humans i think it is down to personal choice, in the early stages of pregnancy there is a high risk of miscarriage anyway and in my view if it will be more emotionally or financially viable to have an abortion with in the first few weeks then I'm all for it. I've known friends who've had a baby whilst not really wanting it and I wouldn't wish that on a child.

However when you get to the later stages I think abortions should only be carried out for severe medical reasons. That American issue is disgraceful.

For animals I think I hold the same view. But I'm more against abortion unless it's really needed, like if the rabbit is in a rescue, because it wouldn't be their choice. I suppose in a way animals can make their own choice by not feeding/eating their babies. But regarding abortion, I wouldn't feel comfortable making that choice.
 
I have huge issues with human abortion not because I'm against it in itself, but because I think the "choice" issue is laughable. It is rarely a woman's "choice" to abort her baby, because women who have an accidental pregnancy so often have very little genuine options or choice as for what to do, abortion seeming like the only answer. For example, if I accidentally god pregnant (which is possible, even though I am always v. v. careful), I have no money, I live in one room in a rented house, my parents couldn't support me, the government would stick me in a council flat claiming meagre benefits and I'm pretty sure most men of my age aren't interested in fatherhood... and while I find it hard to end the life of anything (I can't even kill the slugs in my kitchen for crying out loud) what kind of life would that be for me or for any child I could bring into the world?

I also hate the way that abortion is talked about as if it's some huge priviledge for women and this "right" that's being offered to them because we live in such enlightened times :roll: . Clearly it is only allowed because of the huge amount of money to be made out of it.

As for in animals... personally I think I would allow the kits to be born and do the best that I could, all the while hoping the litter was small :? . If it was very early in the pregnancy when I was aware of it, I would book an emergency spay though, because... well, the rabbit should be spayed anyway.
 
I disagree, mainly because I don't believe that most accidental pregnancies are actually unpreventable - the two are totally different things. I have absolutely loads of friends and know of many other people who have had 'accidental' pregnancies. Yet when you talk to them, whilst they weren't deliberately trying, virtually all of them attributed a contraceptive failure to themselves - whether that be they didn't take their pill on time but thought it would be ok, had a sickness, forgot to get their depo- done 12 weeks on the dot, didn't put the condom on properly etc etc, got drunk and didn't bother 'just the once', I won't get too graphic but the list goes on. If that's true of people I know, it's sure as heck true for most other people. Doctors will tell you that the pill is virtually infallible if taken correctly - and that's the crunch. The vast majority of those who get pregnant whilst on it, haven't taken it correctly. It only takes a 'just this once' to get pregnant.

So whilst of course there will be an occasion where a pregnancy is genuinely unavoidable, I don't think that the vast majority of accidental pregnancies are - and hence believe that the 'choice' of the woman (I won't even start the tangent about whether it should be the woman's responsibility!) to take steps to prevent a pregnancy should happen at that stage, and not when another life has already been created. Particularly if that person would abort if they were to get pregnant.
 
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