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Poor Jacks Nose -Update 03/04/06

Phill

Wise Old Thumper
Well Poor jack had to be brought into the house last night and have a bath. The poor boy is still not cleaning himself only it's got worse it's not just his back end now he wont even wash his front paws.

His nose is very red, raw and very sore. He wont drink out of a bottle or bowl and he was very dehidrated when i got him in last night. He did however eat 8 carrots and 7 grapes which has helped to re-hydrate him.

He is eating but very slowly and instead of just putting his nose in his dish like all the others do he is pushing his chin along the top of the dish to scoop food into his mouth. He has lost alot of weight about 750g now, i think this is because of the way he is having to eat and pan is probably getting all the food before Jack can get a mouth full.

We have tried antibiotics, but as there is no infection they don't really help, we have tried antibiotic creams and steriod creams but again this has little effect, we are noe trying granulation cream to try and help his nose get some new skin on it as it's like his whole nose is grazed.

He's ok within himself a little miserable but not to out of sorts. Im really stuck as to what to do with him as nothing seems to work and his poor nose has been like this since before christmas. He has had 4 GA's because of it, twice to flush the abcess and twice just to get it cleaned up.

His nose scabs over but then it gets all gunky and starts to smell so i am having to keep it scab free. I have no metacam so i am giving him 0.1ml of calpol to help with the pain and this does seem to help.

I just don't know what to do for my boy? Im really stuck it seems as though we have tried everything!!??

Help!!????
 
Oh dear poor Jack :cry: Forgive my poor memory, was Jacks poorly nose the result of a bite wound? I wonder why the wound breaks down and smells if there is no infection. I was reading a bit about antibiotic therapy for Buns with head adscesses last night (yeh, I know I really know how to have a good time :roll: ) and in a book called 'Notes on Rabbit Internal Medicine' it states that head abscesses are often NOT likely to be due to Pasteurella and so fluroquinolones (Baytril) are NOT a good first choice of antibiotic. Apparently something like METRONIDAZOLE is more effective....?? I think Elve's Maa-Bunny's abscess in her eye socket cleared up on Metronidazole.
With regards to Calpol my Vet says its not safe for bunnies as it contains paracetamol which can cause a buns liver to fail?? Not sure if you Vet agrees with this ??
Poor Jack, I really hope he can be made better. You dont need any sick bunnies to worry about at the moment.
Love Jane x
 
Thanks for that Jane, the calpol is just until i can gethim some metacam i checked with the vet and as it's a very small amount it wont do any harm, obviously if i continued day after day with it then yes it may cause damage but not in this dose.

Yep his nose abcessed in december last year due to a bite wound, it just never seems to have got any better, well except the abcess clearing up. His nose is just very red and very sore!

This is the thing i don't get Jane, the abcessed cleared after Hazel packed it with iodine in January but since then it has just been red and sore and nothing seems to help, short of putting under another GA im not sure what we can do.

The vets checked it over 3/4 weeks ago and said there was no infection and there certainly doesn't seem to be any major inner infection, i just wonder wether ther skin itself is infected?? But his nose is very pink and apart from being grazed and sore there is no discouloration or necrosis, nothing! Not even a thing up his nostrils, no puss no fluid nothing.

Im really stuck!
 
Oh Gawd sounds a real tricky one :? :? This is just a thought off the top of my head but you can get a liquid that you 'paint' on to broken but infection free skin which dries to form a sort of artificial skin and encourages tissue healing. Trouble is Jack might get well stressed with having something like that put on his nose. Its called 'Newskin' and I THINK it is available in the GERMOLENE range of first aid stuff. Perhaps you could run the idea by your Vet?.
I guess Jacks nose is always 'in use' so to speak so the tissue will constantly be moving about. The only other think I can think of is a skin graft but have no idea if this would be possible??? Janex
 
Thanks Jane, you see very tricky, The granulation cream we have at the mo is simelar to this new skin thing! It's supposed to help the body produce new skin without irritating anything. It worked wonders when holly had the skin ripped from her neck.

I will have to go back to the vets and see what on earth we can do! I can't have my little man in pain like this X
 
aww poor Jack :( I agree with Jane that there should be some kind of artificial paint-on skin on the market for humans - the granular stuff is to generate new skin, which isn't quite the same as forming a barrier.

I know when my son gets mouth ulcers he uses anbesol liquid, which is a local anaesthetic that numbs that area, and contains antibacterial and helps it heal too - hurts like mad to first put it on but then it goes numb - I think he needs something like that rather than a general painkiller such as metacam - something local - ask your vet maybe, or just buy some anbesol and give it a try - If it's OK for kids mouths then it will be fine for a bunny I would imagine, and it sounds like he's pretty desperate.

In addition I would syringe water and mushed up pellets into him if he's not drinking - he'll get stasis if he's not hydrated enough, and lots of sugary veg like carrots and grapes will aggravate that if his guts slow down. Or is he hard to syringe? The vet can give him sub-cut fluids once every couple of days maybe?

The paracetamol's confusing though as it's listed as poisonous to cats, but I don't think it is for rabbits - I would use half a soluble asprin to 100ml of warm water and syringe some of that in with some pineapple juice to make it taste nice. Asprin's not good on an empty stomach, so you could give some mushed up pellets too first maybe - I've definitely seen asprin in a rabbit article on the internet somewhere, but not paracetamol - although anyone can write an article for the internet.

Hope he's going to be OK!
 
Thanks Elve, he is eating just not with the vigore he usually does, he's just much slower it's just the drinking! He's very hard to syringe ha hates it and i hate holding him down to do it which is what we would have to do.

I will try the anbesol i never even thought of it! I used to use it when i was a nnany for the little boy i looed after when he was teething! That would help him alot! I shall pop and get some at lunch time.

I think a trip to the vets is needed even if it's just for fluids, The thing with the barrier is that because he lost a bit of his nose when he had the abcess it's now a very funny shape and obviously i don't want anything covering his nostrils, or is this stuff like a cream??
 
Ok i have just rang the vets to see who is doing sugery this evening and it's Andrew ( the owner) He's a good vet but not great with different meds for bunnies! Hazel is on today so the receptionist is going to get her to give me a ring! Perhaps hazel can give us some pain releif until she's on duty and Jack can see her.
 
Ok Well Jack is doing a lot better! He is eating properly as long as i keep his bowl filled to the top so he can get the pellets off easily and i have to chop his hay up so i doesn't poke him in the nose! He is drinking out of his bottle again and is very happy on his own in the house. His nose is still very sore and were off to see Hazel tonight with it, and see what we can do to help it heal!

What im stuck with is Pan is now on her own outside, she seems ok but i hate the buns being alone, esp when they have had company there whole lives. Oakley and Sticth are having to spend more time locked up than normal as Jack needs his playtime too.

As Jack is doing so well in the house i did wonder wether to keep him as a house bun as the warmth seems to keep his nose dry which is helping it to heal. I really don't know what to do?? I could pop stitch outside in the shed with Pan, as she will accept any male bun and stitch still has his winter coat and the weather has improved no end up here. And i could then leave Jack as a house bun with Oakley. Or keep Jack inside until his nose is fully healed and them put him back with Pan, leaving Pan alone for god knows how long! HELP!!! I really am stuck guys i don't know what to do for the best!
 
oooh yes - Jack a house bun, and Stitch with Pan, sounds very sensible! :D

Glad he's managing better now - it is tricky juggling play areas isn't it - I've got the girls out now for their second session, having had Benny, Maa, girls and Tia out seperately since 8.30am - Next it's Maa for another session, then Tia gets her second go, then I have to go food shopping, then it's Benny for a couple of hours, as he never wants to go back in till tea time - Good job I don't have a job :lol:
 
Thanks Elve, i am just a little worried that Oaks will miss Stitch as she hasn't accepted any other bun but him and they do get on very well, but i think Stitch might like being outside where he can chew what he wants and binky around as much as he wants. Im just not 100% yet, i hate spliting buns up if i can help it but i don't want to risk Jack getting sick again as he really is so much better in the house.

And you right juggeling playtimes is a nightmare! If i were in my own house it would be alot easier as i could use another room for the two lots to play in but im only alowed the buns in my bedroom and it's very small and i can't let them all play together as although Jack accepts any bun Stitch doesn't like him and Oaks is funny with other bunnies, although she's really not fussed by Jack and keeps going up to the bars of his kennel and nosing at him.
 
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