new parents - please advise

we are the proud new parents of five little netherland dwarf's.

we have had the pair for six months and had given up hope of any kits.

for one reason or another we havent touched the hutch for about three weeks (i know we are a disgrace but its NOT MY FAULT) so it was a complete shock when we found them. i reckon from trawling the net that they are about three weeks old.

what do we do?

Is it worth separating dad seeing its been 3 weeks?

cheers

sorry but what have they been eating / drinking if you havent been near the hutch for 3 weeks???? are the kits in a dirty bed?? I dont know anythig about breeding but i believe they breed again pretty much straight away so shes probably pregnant again and i dont think you are supposed to keep dad with the babies either

Hiya. Yes you do need to remove the Buck. Otherwise he may kill the kits and your doe may well be preganat again already. The Kits will leave the nest when they are ready, anytime now really. You will need to ensure there are no ramps etc that they can fall down. I am a bit concerned that you have not been able to check on your rabbits environment for a few weeks. They will need clean/dry bedding as GI disease is a risk with baby rabbits kept in unclean surroundings.I assume that you have been able to provide fresh food/water daily? The kits should start to nibble hay when they leave the nest and they will also accept the dried pellets/cereal given to the doe. At 6 weeks the kits can have their vaccination against myxomatosis (assuming you do vaccinate your rabbits). The kits can be weaned at about 6-7 weeks. This is a VERY stressful period for them and great care is needed to avoid GI upsets. I hope that you have already researched prospective new homes for the babies if you do not intend to keep them. Giving/selling the babies to a Pet Shop to sell on is NOT a good idea. Jane and Buns xx

i should explain a bit more.

we only had a 4ft hutch so they have a large run. mum and dad very rarely used they hutch and spend most of the time in the run. the hutch was therefore clean and they are fed daily and have a constant supply of fresh water and hay.

it was when i was transferring them into the new double decker des res (which i have spent the last few weeks building) that we noticed the kits. i have blocked off the ramp so we wont have tumbling bunnys.

the local pet shop has advised that there is no need to remove dad at this late stage as any "damage" would have been done by now

I would separate the two adults immediately and have the buck neutured ASAP.

I don't mean to pry, but were you intending to breed from your rabbits? You still need to remove the buck even at this stage, as he may still kill the kits.

Hiya! Sadly local pet shops don't tend to be the best at giving out advice - half the time they can't even sex bunnies correctly anyway!! Yes you definitely need to remove the buck, there is a high chance that he will kill or at least injure the litter once they start to wander out of the nest. If the 4ft hutch and run is all on one level, I would be inclined to leave the mum and babies in there for now, as obviously in a double decker the babies could fall down the stairs. For now you could move the dad into the new des res, but ideally in a position where he can still see and smell the others, so that he doesn't feel too lonely and doesn't lose his love for her.

I may be wrong but from reading your original post, it sounds like you knew that you had a male and female together and were hoping for kits? The reason I and the others above suggest neutering is because every year there are an estimated 33,000 rabbits taken to UK rescue centres - not to even think of the fate of those who don't make it that far because the centres are full. Breeding at home sadly denies a home to other bunnies in need, whether the babies be staying with you or being rehomed elsewhere. Hope that makes sense!

While the kits are growing, why not pop your male along to the vets and get him neutered, that way, he will almost be ready to bond back with the mum again once the kits have been weaned - assuming that she isn't already pregnant again! (males must be neutered for at least 6 weeks before re-introducing as they can still get her pregnant!). Neutering is a relatively simple operation, particularly for boys.

Good luck with the babies

Female rabbits can get pregnant again within 24 hours of having a litter. Most likely your female is already pregnant again. You should still remove the buck though because otherwise when she has her second litter he'll get her pregnant again straight away with a third litter. Having two litters straight in a row is not good for the female rabbits and babies health... having three would be very very bad.

Obviously raising two litters at once is very stressful on the mum, you'll need to make sure she has plenty of extra food. Usually the babies would not be seperated from mum until 8 weeks old but you may need to seperate them slightly earlier is the other litter doesn't grow as well. Both litters will need seperating into boys and girls at 8 weeks old.

I think you'll need to do a bit more hutch building, you'll need one for dad, one for the boys from the first litter, one for the girls from the first litter and one for mum and the second litter.

You maybe able to house the girls from the two litters together but the boys from the second litter will need their own hutch because by the time they're ready to seperate the boys from the first litter will be getting the hormones that will cause fights with new introductions.

So that's five hutches

If you do have the dad neutered you'll need to keep him seperate for six weeks as the remain fertile for a time after the operation. He won't be able to live with the male offspring because they'll fight.

Hope that helps,
Tamsin

the new des res was built as the old hutch was showing its age and starting to rot. (now disposed of).

the split level has been blocked off for the safety of the kits.

when we got them we were advised to let them have at least one litter-but after six months we had given up looking.

we dont intend to pass them on to a shop but pass them off privately if we can.

guess its off to the vets for the "snip" (which as a male i don't agree with)

dicky ticker said:

guess its off to the vets for the "snip" (which as a male i don't agree with)

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:lol: He'll bounce back in no time and they don't seem to miss them. Better than being banished from his girlfriends company

You need to start looking for homes now, they're very difficult to find so if you start now you might have a few lined up by the time the rabbits are ready to leave at 8 weeks.

when we got them we were advised to let them have at least one litter-but after six months we had given up looking.

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Unfortunately, that's still quite common advice despite the fact that there is no benefit from it and they don't mention that once they've had one litter they don't stop and you end up overflowing with babies!

Tam

Nothing more to add, other than our litter of 4 week old kittens easily manage stairs in their double decker hutch and have done since leaving their nest last week. Spent many hours working on several different designs to allow mum up the stairs but stop babies going down the stairs.

After installing / adapting each one, I would come back an hour later to find 2 or 3 kittens downstairs. I'm sure they were almost laughing at me!

Joys of rabbit keeping.

...and what do you intend to do if your Doe is now pregnant again?? The reason it took so long for the first litter to arrive is probably because the Doe was not sexually mature. Bucks reach puberty before Does. If this is the case then I assume your Doe is about 6 months old now????? If she has a SECOND litter at such a young age she may be compromising her own health, particularly her bone formation. As she is so young her skeleton is still growing and she will need a good calcium level to ensure healthy bones. When pregnant/nursing Kits she will be exhausting her calcium supplies (aswell as herself and she too is really still a baby). This will put her a risk of Osteoporosis which can result in SPONTANEOUS FRACTURES OF THE SPINE and Dental Disease which results in a rabbit who needs lifelong repeated dental treatment under General Anaesthetic(average cost £50 a time,often as frequently as EVERY 3 WEEKS and NOT covered by Pet Health Insurance) to enable the afflicted rabbit to eat. Jaw abscesses and Eye problems are also a result of Dental Disease as the too soft jaw bones(due to calcium depletion at a young age) cannot cope with the open rooted dentition of a rabbit. As others have said Pet Shops are rarely able to give accurate advice about how to care for the animals they sell. And to say a Doe and Buck must be able to breed once is RUBBISH!! This is often the advice given when the Pet Shop expects the resulting litter to be brought back to them to be sold on, ie making them a bit of profit. If you purchased your original two rabbits from the pet shop were you able to ascertain their breeding background?Some Netherland Dwarfs can have congenital problems.Unless one can be SURE two rabbits are free from all known hereditary conditions it is really not a good idea to breed from them.Finding good homes for healthy rabbits is hard enough.Breeding from an unknown stock line is just asking for trouble. Jane and Buns xx

oh dear - hope you can find these poor babies good homes, and that mum isn't pregnant again already

elve said:

oh dear - hope you can find these poor babies good homes, and that mum isn't pregnant again already

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Ditto

And read up on rabbits. As much as you can.

why are these "poor" babies

I think everyone on this forum is very concerned about the HUGE number of rabbits that have to be rescued every year and the difficulty of finding loving and caring homes for them all. I think what Elve is refering to by saying 'poor babies' is that these five rabbits MIGHT become part of the 33,000 rabbits that rescues see each year. I'm sure that it is by NO means implying that you are incapable of finding good homes it's just that rescues have such a hard job rehoming. I just hope that you will not have the same problems and that you babies end up in caring good homes.

Again to add to the pleas to get your buck neutered, mine really doesn't seem to miss them at all and he still has his end away with our doe just we don't end up with the babies!!!

WE APOLOGISE IF THIS OFFENDS ANY TRUE RABBIT CARERS

who do i believe?

the established pet shop (where the majority of people get their rabbits) or the minoroty of people who "overprotect" their pets?

unfortunatley rabbit care is not on the national curriculum so we don't know EVERYTHING.
that is why we came here for advice. not criticism or slanderous remarks. this site seemed to have more "fact" than the three rabbit care books we already have.

our rabbits are NOT neglected ("POOR") nor are they treated as substitute children. NOR ARE THEY SEXUALLY IMMATURE

i do not wholly agree with (pedigree)/inbreeding as this eliminates
natural selection in any breeding community. so what is wrong with having a litter - isnt' that "natural"?

i appreciate that this site is "rescue" orientated but some of the opinions we have recieved have deterred US from using this site. if this is the response this site promotes to other new owners then maybe thats why rescue centres are over run. not everyone is able to glean the good from the bad. we came here for ADVICE to improve life for our rabbits

REST ASSURED OUR KITS WILL NOT BE GOING TO PET SHOPS OR RESCUE CENTRES. they will be re-homed to personally selected good homes or kept with their parents

also (as intended) the snip is on the way - so the gene pool elitists can calm down!

THANKYOU to Tamsin and others for hosting this site. and THANKYOU to those who gave positive un-biassed advice

You asked for advice and that is what was given. Unfortunately it appears it was not what you wanted to hear. Jane and Buns xx

yes, and I object to being sent a PM demanding an explanation!

As you said in your first post that these babies had been neglected for 3 weeks, in midwinter, and left in a dangerous situation with their father, I think the phrase 'poor babies' is wholly appropriate - poor mum rabbit as well for that matter, who received no extra care during pregnancy or whilst feeding her kits for 3 weeks!