newchurch guinea pigs.

I have followed this campaign to free the newchurch pigs for several years & should be overjoyed that it has now reached a conclusion with the promise that the halls from darley oaks farm are to stop breeding their pigs for medical research BUT I have to say that I do not agree with the digging up of dead relatives to enable the ALF to achieve this outcome. I think it is descecration & that for once I feel ashamed that I took part in this campaign, I am pleased that no more pigs will be subjected to experimentation as there are other methods that can achieve the same results without using animals BUT they cost more & that is why animals will continue to be used as they are CHEAP. I hope the powers to be will learn from this & stop using animals for research.

i know i was pleased too!!! yet they had to let it go so far didnt they? they should have stopped ages ago

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4176094.stm

They've suceeded in closing that one farm but I can't help but think they might have damaged the general cause in doing so. By taking such extremes they must have put off people who might have considered supporting organisations against animal research.

I know not all campaigners are the same but it's the skocking things that get the press and sway the image of everyone towards something people don't want to be associated with.

Tam

The thing that made me sad - and I don't know if it's true or not - is that someone said that if they close UK farms, the people doing the experiments will just import animals from around Europe where there are less controls on the conditions that the animals are bred and transported in

A lot of that sort of research is now farmed off to countries like India and China instead where they have no regulations on cage sizes, number of animals that can be kept, or length of experimentation.

For example in the UK if an animal appears to be suffering/in obvious distress no matter how important the results are the animal is withdrawn from the study.

They haven't stopped the research by digging up that guys poor dead mum.

Oh well out of sight out of mind - if it happens in another country you don't have to think about it right?????

Caz

That is true.

Tamsin said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4176094.stm

They've suceeded in closing that one farm but I can't help but think they might have damaged the general cause in doing so. By taking such extremes they must have put off people who might have considered supporting organisations against animal research.

I know not all campaigners are the same but it's the skocking things that get the press and sway the image of everyone towards something people don't want to be associated with.

Tam

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Yeah Tam - I honestly don't feel this is a win situation for welfare generally. I also wonder what will happen to all the Guinea Pigs which they have at the Farm :?: - there has been mention of them being PTS, also if in the name of medical research animals start to be imported from other countries some of which have much less regulation than in the UK then animals will suffer by having possible poor transportation and breeding conditions.

I listened yesterday to Radio 2 which had some campaigners on and I've gotta say that they did themselves no favours at all so I really do feel that animal rights will have lost some support as a result of recent events which is really sad.

newchurch pigs.

Hi bunnytales I agree with you I think the ALF have brought a lot of bad publicity on themselves with their actions I can understand that they are frustrated that the govenrment still allow animals to be used for experiments but what they did was wrong & has got them bad press. hopefully the pigs will be allowed to go for re-homing so there may be an appeal for a large number of piggy homes soon. The hillside cats which were the campaign before the newchurch pigs were all successfully homed all 300 odd of them despite the fact that they had only experianced life in a laboratory. so perhaps a happy ending for them

Well, I may be contraversial, but as much as I love animals and would never wish them to suffer, as a nurse I know that there are so many valuable treatments which would never have been available if there had been no animal research. Its very sad, and I certainly dont condone testing cosmetics etc which is just selfish human behaviour.

As has been pointed out, in the UK there are stringent guidelines and regulations to protect the health and wellbeing of animals, including how often they can be bred and from what age, the conditions in which they are kept and transported etc, however in other countries, even in Europe, there are no such restrictions, and so we condemn these poor creatures to a worse fate.

Until or unless you have been in situation where you or your loved one is so sick that only a treatment which has been tested on animals can save them, then you cannot really judge the rights or wrongs of the issue.

I'm sorry if some people are upset by this, but I am sad to say that in so many situations we respond on an emotional level without considering the full implications.


By the way I live very near to Newchurch, and the local people are outraged about what happened to the grave of the lady.

Statistics for 2003 from the govt (latest ones available). From what I'm aware, although the majority of tests are for the development of medicine, the majority of these are not for life-threatening illnesses but common complaints that are the best for generating money for the companies involved.

http://www.drhadwentrust.f2s.com/J_FS-ST_2003STATS.html

I disagree with all animal testing for medical or otherwise, who says we are more important then another species, I'm sure if you asked a rabbit they would say they were more important.

I've lost realtives to cancer etc and even had a cancer scare myself, as sad as it is it's population control, we can't all live forever, why should we always be fighting nature. I still don't think my life is more important than an animals, we are equal! The sooner we end up wiping ourselves out the better and let another species have a chance.

Soz just my view.

Tree said:

I disagree with all animal testing for medical or otherwise, who says we are more important then another species, I'm sure if you asked a rabbit they would say they were more important.

I've lost realtives to cancer etc and even had a cancer scare myself, as sad as it is it's population control, we can't all live forever, why should we always be fighting nature. I still don't think my life is more important than an animals, we are equal! The sooner we end up wiping ourselves out the better and let another species have a chance.

Soz just my view.

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Heck this is such an emotive and difficult topic and Tree you know me I wouldn't hurt anyone and I genuinely respect that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.

So O.K - just to get some feed back on this - how's about I throw a spanner in the works with the following thoughts:-

I'd find it really difficult say if MOH had something terminal to say that I felt it wrong that he be treated with anything tested on animals, so I guess what I'm saying is that I don't feel you can have animals as equal with human life.
I lost my brother at the young age of 21 and at that time I'd have grasped at anything that would have saved his life so he could be here today, no doubt through medical advancements there are probably drugs on the market that may save someone in a similar position as this wa some 20 years ago ( - given my age away there folks :!: )

Also - how many of us have vaccinations for various conditions - there are the many Adults and children that in some instances takes life saving medication including the routine vaccinations that save lives every year.

So o.k - I'm driving down the road - there may be an animal in the road, be it a dog, cat or rabbit and a child - which would I choose to miss (if I had the choice) - hmmmmmmmmm - I'd be interested to hear how many feel that they would value the animal above a human life in this situation. (this coming frome someone who drives to work at 20 MPH to miss Rabbits in the Countryside every day :!: )

Last thought on this - how many of our own much loved furries have benefited from drugs that have been tested on other animals :?:

Difficult eh! - see I told ya it was difficult and emotive :wink:

Until or unless you have been in situation where you or your loved one is so sick that only a treatment which has been tested on animals can save them, then you cannot really judge the rights or wrongs of the issue.

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I have. But I still don't think animal testing is right. JMO.

The thing is most tests they do on animals have been done before as no one values the animals enough to share data. They just repeat and repeat and damage and kill many many animals for no other reason at all than that they earn their salary or their profits that way. It is about money, not about health. Different species react differently to drugs. Drugs that will save one species will kill another. A huge proportion of a doctors time is taken up with adverse drug reactions because no matter how many animals are tortured they don't know exactly how a drug will affect a human.

My eldest son is going through hell right now because his drugs don't suit him. The side effects are worse than the condition they are meant to control.

If scientists were to pool all they know already and use computer simulations they would get far more accurate results. But the labs would not make any more money, poor things, we all know how important profits are don't we. Much more important than animals. NOT.

I don't think the protesters did that to the old ladies grave anyway. There are too many vested interests in giving the protestors a bad name. The protest at the guinea pig farm has been quite low key for a while as so many restrictions were put on them by the police. I drove past one of them - it was just 3 people and a few signs saying honk if you support us. There were more police than protesters. I honked my horn like a mad woman.

I could find room for a few Newchurch guineas.

doorkeeper said:

I don't think the protesters did that to the old ladies grave anyway. There are too many vested interests in giving the protestors a bad name.

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Hi Louise

I think the good ole media has a lot to answer for - the programme I listened to certainly indicated that the protest had been directed at many folks within the vicinity of the Farm also - such as Newspaper Shops and Grocery Stores - just about anyone who had any association with the G.Pig farm - now knowing the good old media as we do - there is no way of knowing just how true or large scale a problem this was but it sure does get the sympathy vote with the general public and its a shame that spoils any of the progress that the genuine protestors make.


I really do hope the G.Piggs all find good homes but my worry is that there is no doubt that rightly or wrongly animal research will continue but that laboratories may look to find them from abroad where there is much less regulation in animal welfare.

doorkeeper said:

The thing is most tests they do on animals have been done before as no one values the animals enough to share data. They just repeat and repeat and damage and kill many many animals for no other reason at all than that they earn their salary or their profits that way. It is about money, not about health. Different species react differently to drugs. Drugs that will save one species will kill another. A huge proportion of a doctors time is taken up with adverse drug reactions because no matter how many animals are tortured they don't know exactly how a drug will affect a human.

My eldest son is going through **** right now because his drugs don't suit him. The side effects are worse than the condition they are meant to control.

If scientists were to pool all they know already and use computer simulations they would get far more accurate results. But the labs would not make any more money, poor things, we all know how important profits are don't we. Much more important than animals. NOT.

I don't think the protesters did that to the old ladies grave anyway. There are too many vested interests in giving the protestors a bad name. The protest at the guinea pig farm has been quite low key for a while as so many restrictions were put on them by the police. I drove past one of them - it was just 3 people and a few signs saying honk if you support us. There were more police than protesters. I honked my horn like a mad woman.

I could find room for a few Newchurch guineas.

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Louise, you have said exactly what I was going to say!

The vivisection industry is so profit-motivated that it's frightening.

I have never believed that the lady's grave was dug up by protesters - like you, I am certain it was done to reflect badly on us.

Jenny