Bonding two groups

Hi everyone, this is my first post here so be gentle!

We have had 2 rabbits (male and female) that have lived happily in our garden for the past year. They were rescue (RSPCA) rabbits that were bonded at the centre without problems, infact they got on like old friends. They have the run of our back garden, which is big, covered in grass only and is fenced off on all sides - bunny heaven!

We decided the garden was so big it could support some more, so we went to the RSPCA again and got 3 more girls (from a group of 6, it was heartbreaking not to be able to take them all but the garden isn't THAT big and 8 would be too much of a handful for us). I bought a childs playhouse and converted that - it's got a cosy downstairs and lots of floor 'upstairs' now! We are hoping that all 5 can share the house as it is loads better than the hutch the other 2 are in.

Now the hard part - they fight like crazy! They've spent the last week going out into the garden separately, so it's 2 hours for Ben and Dottie then 2 hours for Tulula, Mary and Freda (not our choice of names, but they seem to like them!). Whenever one of the new 3 is next to the others in their pen they seem happy enough, sniffing etc. If we let them meet outside Ben and Dottie (understandably) defend their territory and the fur literally starts flying!

My question is therefore - has anyone successfully bonded 2 groups together, and what was the method that worked for you? We are thinking we'll have to either do the car thing, which would be tricky for 5 rabbits, or perhaps let them all meet in our spare room which none of them has ever been in. The more time they spend seperate in the garden the more I think both groups will think it is their territory.

We think this group dynamic should work, 1 male and 4 females. Ben will be alpha male and we obviously expect some scuffles while the girls (well Dottie and Tulula mainly) work out who's alpha female. What we don't want is full-on rabbit war!!

Thanks for reading this (if you got this far!) and I hope someone has some good news for me!

Hope to talk to you guys more in the future as well!

I think the best thing to try first would be your spare room, somewhere niether group has been. You could also try introducing one new girl at a time to each of your pair seperatly. I have done this before, bonded all the buns to each other but idiviually and then put them all together in a neutral space and it worked. You could try that. Good Luck Xx

How's it going with the bonding? I think it's fantastic you're getting more.
We've got quite a large garden, but we can't secure it properly, so limited to the run space (only two bunnies worth at the moment!). squidgy lives inside with us, but we don't think he;d tolerate a friend!!
Keep us updated, and we always love pictures.....

HI HS, thanks for the interest. I keep telling people at work about my buns and they just feign interest I think. It's good to meet like-minded bun fanatics!

Well, the story so far is thus: After 2 weeks of letting them out separately we decided to do the spare room thing yesterday. They still fought, not as much though, and Dottie has at least stopped 'hunting' the others down. Tulula is learning to be submissive, and at one point Ben even sat with Mary and Freda. Having the hoover in the room worked well, whenever they fought we switched it on (it also got rid of the fur tufts!).

The outcome of that couple of hours was that they could be near each other and not immediately start fighting. Therefore we decided to put them all in the garden together and (fingers crossed) things are going well. They still chase each other, however they've learnt that they can all share the garden. Tulula was even sat 3 feet from Ben and Dottie last night and everyone looked nice and calm.

Today it's more of the same, some chasing when they all first came out but they soon settle and only get agitated when a 'strange' bunny comes about 3 feet away. I swear I even saw Tulula bow her head down to Dottie, when 2 weeks ago they both went head on at each other.

I'm waiting for Broadband before I get large pictures, but there are pictures of them on my wedding site http://www.bowernet.com/wedding/who.asp. They're not part of the wedding (boo!) but people wanted to see their pics! They are at the bottom!

It sounds like they're doing really well. Had a sneaky peak a them and they're lovely bunnies. Ben is a lucky bun!
Good luck witht the wedding too - I expect you're a bit busy - not to mention excited - at the moment.

hi

Oh that tip about using a vacuum cleaner's brilliant! I've totally chickened out for the moment, but I might give it another try when all 5 girls have been spayed (ie: not next week)...Well done!

You need the loudest hoover you can get elve! We have a big dyson and when we switched it on they all stopped and went wide-eyed! Also the initial fighting had left hair in the room so it was handy for that as well. It's all about distraction isn't it, take their mind of each other and before they know it they're sitting with a strange rabbit.

A quick update as well, last night Tulula sniffed Dot's bum submissively and didn't bit it this time! She even shoved it a bit and Dot just sat there. It was only when Lula started grooming her and gave her a nip instead that they had a little chase :roll: Ben on the other hand is still chasing the others if they get to close. You'd think he'd be looking forward to bossing his hareem around :lol:

Bonding update here - I'm close to tears with all the stress (not easy for a 27 year old man).

Everything was going great, they had little chases from time to time but they were slowly getting used to each other. Then last weekend we started leaving the door to the hutch (Ben and Dot) and the playhouse (Freda, Mary and Tulula) open so they could sniff each other's homes.

I don't know what happened, but two days of that turned Dottie into the most aggressive rabbit I've seen. Now whenever she sees Lula she goes flat out for her, ears back. They fight like mad, and Dot has a big gash behind her front leg (it's already scabbed and she doesn't seem to notice it). I even cleaned both houses yesterday, spraying all the floors and walls with cleaner, but just now I tried Dot and Lula together and they were fighting again.

It looks like Dot has now got a serious problem with Lula and I'm so upset as the new playhouse would suit her down to the ground, she'd love the space and she would like the company of the others, just not Lula.

Has anyone else had rabbits that looked like they were almost bonded then suddenly turn? Dot doesn't go hell for leather after the other 2 new girls, just Lula. I'm at my wits end now, I didn't want to have to have 2 hutches to clean and wanted to see all 5 buns together in the playhouse which is miles bigger than Ben and Dot's hutch.

Arrrgh.

I forgot to ask about spaying - would this help if we got Dot spayed? Lula keeps trying to get away from her and only fights to defend herself. I don't know if Dot is broody or perhaps a phantom pregnancy?

If she is spayed does she need to be kept seperate from Ben? We don't have anywhere else to keep her, so we'd need perhaps an indoor cage and I don't want her to unbond from Ben.

Spaying could certainly help. Females can be very territorial and attack 'invaders' often spaying helps as this removes the hormones. There is no guarentee with bunnies though.

I would imagine that perhaps Lulu annoyed Dottie by going into her territory (hutch) and now she's doing preemptive strikes to prevent future invasions

Are you still going with neutral territory? If so continue that and in future close up the hutch/shed when they're in the garden.

Plan of action could be alternate exercise in the garden. Mettings in neutral areas and chatting to the vet about spaying.

There is the possibility you'll never get them all together but I don't think it's time to give up yet

Tam

hi

Aww - it's so frustrating when you know they'd all be happy if ONLY they weren't so silly about it :?

and Ooops - we all forgot to ask if they were spayed - If I'd known Dottie wasn't spayed I'd have said no way till she was done - sorry about that

I think it would be best if you get her spayed, wait a few months for the hormones to go down, and start bonding again from scratch, just as you already described but leaving it longer till they go in each other's houses - females will possibly never get along great anyway, and you may find that the underdog/rabbit is stressed by the whole situation - she may get mites etc if she's feeling run down (or run out of town, as it were)...

Rabbits do have good memories so I would leave bonding Dottie for a few months due to this, as well as her hormones - they are very unforgiving little fluffies! :roll:

You must keep an eye on the cut Dot has as such injuries often develop into abscesses and need long courses of antibiotics and sometimes surgery - make sure it doesn't get a lump under the fur once it's healed.

And if you get Dot spayed (rather than giving up on bonding like I did ) she can go straight back in with her partner if he's a gentle type - but not if he's a mad humper...If you wanted to keep her seperate from him for 24 hours then just put her in a 3' cage with him next to her until she's started to heal - it shouldn't break the bond, but be careful and keep an eye on things.

With my 5 unspayed girls there are constant mild disturbances and chasing - they do hump and pester each other just from being hormonal - hasn't got bad enough to split them yet but I have to keep Benny totally out of their sight as a serious fight develops when he's next to them - they all want to be his girl (and he's not even interested!)

Personally I prefer the extra cleaning to the stress of bonding

Thanks elve, some good advice there.

We're going to run Dot down to the vets tomorrow to get the wound checked and ask about spaying. She's a big girl and one vet said we should thin her down a bit (although Ben is a normal sized rabbit so we don't think she's overfed), then another said she was just full of gas (hot air more like!). See what they say tomorrow, I'd like to try just getting her done and see if that makes a difference. Lula and the others are all fine with each other, Dot obviously wants to keep Ben all to herself :lol:

All else fails just hire Phill...she can bond anything!!!! Good luck

hi

the most important thing with spaying (and other bunny care for that matter) is finding a vet who is up to date on bunny science - they only do minimal training in bunnies at vet college, and some are too complacent to do further courses - usually the older and more traditional vets - although they may be brilliant with cats and dogs...

Bunnies are classed as exotic pets, they are quite different to cats and dogs - If Dot is overweight they won't want to put her under a general anaesthetic as anaesthesia of rabbits is quite tricky when they're overweight as the fat absorbs the anaesthetic...

The vet that said she was full of gas clearly knows nothing much about rabbits! A bunny full of gas is very ill :?

there's advice on here about finding a good vet
http://www.mybunny.org/info/vet_questionnaire.htm

Best to find one that a rabbit rescue use for spaying as they will be very experienced - but there is vet etiquette which says you can't just up and leave your present vet, you have to tell your existing vet or ask to be referred - a bit like changing dentists :roll:
Good luck!

Re: hi

elve said:

...there is vet etiquette...

Click to expand...

Would that be vetiquette? :lol:

Dot doesn't feel or look overweight (no rolls of fat or anything), but she does have a big stomach. When she lays flat out in the garden I can roll her (gently) from side to side on it as I stroke her. I don't know if she appreciates that or not! She also burps from time to time as well!

Are English Spots generally big rabbits? I'm not that clued up on the breeds.

Also our vets do seem quite good, they are certainly excellent at removing tumours from our ratties as well. Whenever we've been for mixi vacs they also give them a thorough going over and Dot even lets them check her teeth and bum.

hi

oh well - book her in then - maybe she can have a tummy tuck at the same time :lol: