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In-breeding

Denny

Mama Doe
Having read Tracy's sad loss of Pickle and Cheryl's reply of 'they were badly inbred' I am interested to know what effects inbreeding has, and how, if there are any signs without knowing the buns family history/back ground. Not knowing the in's and outs of breeding I am also interested if they are bred further down their ancestry line that can cause health issues too. What is the closeness in which a rabbit is bred ie: father and daughter :?: how far apart is the buns family line before a family history tree is used :?:

Another stupid question is, I understand some buns being crosses but what exactly does pure bred mean and why do certain people use this term :?: surely if you are a dwarf lop, you are a dwarf lop (parents being both dwarfs) but what does a pure bred dwarf lop mean :?:

Not sure if I have put this in the right section Tamsin so feel free to move it if it is :wink:
 
Denny said:
the in's and outs of breeding
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ok, so I know I wasn't helpful, but I had to laugh :roll:
 
Trust you Lynda :lol: :lol:
I don't know the answers but often wonder whether this is the reason that alot of 'farmed' pets for the pet shop trade don't tend to live as long as they should.
Do show rabbits have pedigrees as dogs do? Do you have proof of their parentage etc.
 
ok u can breed father to daughter, mother to son ect but u get the deformaties when u breed sister and brother together, you get the deformaites when the genes r the same so u can breed 1/2 bro and 1/2 sis together but not too often, that is only like a one off thing as u dont want to blood being to closly realted but but thay say breeding relations together u get good blood but just not too close.
becky
 
Father to daughter and Mother to son? I find that quite disturbing... surely the gene pool is the same and therefore poses potential for problems :?:
 
bunnyhuggger said:
Denny said:
the in's and outs of breeding
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2.gif


ok, so I know I wasn't helpful, but I had to laugh :roll:

:shock: :shock: Lynda you naughty minky :lol: :lol: you have a one track mind :lol: :lol: Is Jim feeding you ging seng without you knowing it by any chance :wink: with all that rescue remedy too you must be really laid back by now :wink: :lol: :lol:

I will come back to the topic though as I have got to go and tidy up :roll: get everything ready so I can ogle over Robson Green later :wink: now I would'nt mind getting to know the in's and outs of him Lynda :wink: :D
 
are you sure that is ok Becky as I too would of thought father and daughter, mother and son would have still been a high risk :?: I thought that the closest member of families that could breed were cousins :?: :?

what sort of deformaties do you get with a litter produced from a brother and sister line :?:

I was wondering what all these health issues were that were caused from inter-breeding
 
Denny said:
bunnyhuggger said:
Denny said:
the in's and outs of breeding
10.gif
2.gif


ok, so I know I wasn't helpful, but I had to laugh :roll:

:shock: :shock: Lynda you naughty minky :lol: :lol: you have a one track mind :lol: :lol: Is Jim feeding you ging seng without you knowing it by any chance :wink: with all that rescue remedy too you must be really laid back by now :wink: :lol: :lol:

I will come back to the topic though as I have got to go and tidy up :roll: get everything ready so I can ogle over Robson Green later :wink: now I would'nt mind getting to know the in's and outs of him Lynda :wink: :D

OOH my goodness :shock: - you bunch of strumpets!! :lol: :lol: :lol: he is a bit yummy though isnt he!! (especially when he was in soldier soldier!!) :lol:
 
Kerri C said:
Denny said:
bunnyhuggger said:
Denny said:
the in's and outs of breeding
10.gif
2.gif


ok, so I know I wasn't helpful, but I had to laugh :roll:

:shock: :shock: Lynda you naughty minky :lol: :lol: you have a one track mind :lol: :lol: Is Jim feeding you ging seng without you knowing it by any chance :wink: with all that rescue remedy too you must be really laid back by now :wink: :lol: :lol:

I will come back to the topic though as I have got to go and tidy up :roll: get everything ready so I can ogle over Robson Green later :wink: now I would'nt mind getting to know the in's and outs of him Lynda :wink: :D

OOH my goodness :shock: - you bunch of strumpets!! :lol: :lol: :lol: he is a bit yummy though isnt he!! (especially when he was in soldier soldier!!) :lol:

Ooooh a fellow Robson fancier :thumb: :D :D got one eye on Robson and the other on the pc screen at the moment :wink: :lol:
 
I know, me and my friend used to fight over robson and jerome in soldier soldier, cos we thought they were both lovely - but then we decided jeromes chin was a bit too big, and preferred robson!! Im quite partial to a bit of steve off shameless too!! (has anyone ever seen it!!? It is so funny. Steve has left now though :cry: :cry: - but it supposed to be back on tomorrows episode - yey!! I dont like the fact he plays a bad-lad - but theres just something about him!! :shock: My husband only likes about 2 girls off the telly, bit I always go "i like him...and him...oh and him...and him...and him...." :lol: :lol:
 
robson green

OOOHHHHH....never mind poofy actors give me a jockey anytime..that gorgeous richard johnson with the great BUM make sme go weak at the knees. Something about a guy in johdpurs AAHHH mr.darcy you shouldn,t...well oh! go on then. YES YES YES censored now.
 
Re: robson green

rabshan said:
OOOHHHHH....never mind poofy actors give me a jockey anytime..that gorgeous richard johnson with the great BUM make sme go weak at the knees. Something about a guy in johdpurs AAHHH mr.darcy you shouldn,t...well oh! go on then. YES YES YES censored now.

OOOOOOHHH NO!! Its wrong!! Men in jodphurs is wrong!! I used to go horse-riding when I was younger, and there used to be this big clot of a bloke on my lesson, and the sight of him in jodphurs made me feel ill!! Think its put me off since!!

Its like seeing a male ballet dancer - who wants to see their "essentials" swinging around in a pair of lycra tights!! - I dont!! (p.s your reply really made me laugh by the way!! :lol: :lol: :lol: )!!

My cousin comes round sometimes to say hi to my husband, as he was best man at our wedding, and he cycles to our house wearing these tight jogging bottoms that gradually taper in so they are like drain-pipes at the bottom, and they've got this big padded bum on them - that is all so wrong!! :shock:

P.p s - I still cant stop laughing at your reply!!! Im crying with laughter! :lol:
 
Denny said:
are you sure that is ok Becky as I too would of thought father and daughter, mother and son would have still been a high risk :?: I thought that the closest member of families that could breed were cousins :?: :?

what sort of deformaties do you get with a litter produced from a brother and sister line :?:

I was wondering what all these health issues were that were caused from inter-breeding

yes im positive mother to son and father to daughter is fine, most breeders breed like this getting better quality rabbits. I know in hamsters u cant m8 relations at all. u get the deformaites when the genes r exactly the same like in brother and sister. im not sure exactly what kind of deformaties they get but i think it can be any thing like spine and leg deformaties, i know a friend of mine whos doe had babies but they had to be PTS as the buck that escaped was her brother
becky
 
I think mother-son and father-daughter are fairly commonly done in alot of animal breeding including dogs/cat etc as well. Though it should only be done if you've researched in throughly and got lots of advice so you know what your doing and know the pedigree of the animals.

In the wildgroups can be quite similar genetically.

There is no official pedigrees for bunnies like with dogs. Through some breeders keep them. I guess official pedigree would be one that is registered with the BRC and rung like a dog registered with the kennel club. But it can still be a pure breed and not registered as a pedigree.

Regonised breed & cross breed might be better terms. A regonised breed being one that follows breed standard and a cross a muddle between a couple of breeds.

That would be my interpretation anyway, the breeders amougst us might have a different one :D

Tam
 
ballet dancers.

Hi kerry...what you were saying about male ballet dancers in their tights with their "bits" on display...thats so the female dancers have something to stand on when they leap into the air. I used to have a horse so think I am biased to wards riders also keen on athletes (love those muscley fit bodies) all I am getting all exccited now better go for a shower to calm down.
 
Hi all,

Father-to-daughter & Mother-to-son breeding is also known as Linebreeding.

This is an accepted practice in the rabbit world, IF it is done once before putting the resultant offspring back out to a lesser related rabbit to prevent too closely inbred problems which can arise from this method of breeding if used incorrectly or with any rabbit that is used that has genetic problems.

Linebreeding is used primarily to FIX a desired quality that two related individuals may have that the owner would like to re create.

As has been said, however, Linebreeding also FIXES bad traits as much as the good ones....which is why it must only be done by somebody who is experienced enough to know that the two related adults put together do not have any genetic impediments that would be passes out into the young (which would obviously be irresponsible if it were the case!).

Bear in mind that if any responsible show breeder is doing this they hopefully would have a good idea of the background/parentage of their rabbits & so in a more knowledgable position to do so.

NO rabbit would or should be used (by a responsible breeder) that posesses any potential genetic condition in ANY part of the breeding programme. Sad or not, if any are found to have these problems they are eliminated from the general picture, more often than not culled, so that those with the problem cannot be replicated elsewhere with the lack of knowledge there unfortunately is of rabbits.

If we are talking more in terms of the pet trade breeder, however, the motives & outcomes are very different.

Because maximum production is of great importance, it is of little concern to the owner if the rabbits are left to run in colonies, with mating occurring at random between different rabbits usually littermates & post-partum matings (back-to-back breeding) which means they are continually pregnant whilst already suckling their existing young.

Yes this produces weaker babies, but it also produces MORE babies this way, which is obviously no big deal to traders who have need to supply small, but cute & young-looking babies in large quantity. They don't need to sit in the pet shop too long usually before the customer pays their money & takes the chance as to how far down the line they will actually get! :shock:

(Also as they often accomodate large numbers in smaller spaces or running together, stress-related diseases such as Pasteurella runs rife)

Often these traders will buy up stock from markets & any place where they will not have to pay much....they do not know the background of these rabbits, nor do they really care!. All it takes is one rabbit with the gene for malocclusion (one example) & you have a whole breeding programme full of 'em after several generations. Hence what we see at pet shops.

(what happens then? when Joe Bloggs goes to the pet store that have the baby rabbits produced by the above scenario & buys a pair of rabbits thought to be same sex but actually turns out to be boy/girl, after having an accidental litter or two & the babies are carrying the genes for malocclusion, etc??the problem continues.....)

As far as breeding is concerned, the ONLY breeding IMO, that should be commended is for the betterment & enrichment of a breed, say in an exhibition scenario, where there are standards to follow (ie they can't just make it up as they go along!) & health considerations are of prime importance in order to do so.

Linebreeding & other such types of breeding, such as outcrossing, have their own importance in the preservation of a breed BUT must be left to the experts who have nothing but the resultant rabbits' wellbeing at heart & know what they are doing.
 
hi bunnyboarding,
you alway seem to explain things so well not like me lol, so just like to say well said, dont seen to go into too much detail, i dont think i have the pacience(sp) lol
becky
 
I don't know about breeding but in response to the question about pedigree - when I bought Zeus I got a "pedigree" chart with as much detail (going back to great-grandparents) as the breeder could give on his heritage.

Zeus mum and grandma were fresh blood from abroad and she didn't fill in their pedigree (it is possible that is where Zeus' health problems come from).

In a purely genetic sense sons and daughters have roughly half their genes from each parent so if you mate a father to daughter you have a 50% chance (approx) of introducing new genes so the in-breeding isn't as bad as brother-sister where the percentage of shared genes is much higher (obviously not exactly 100% unless identical twins - does this happen in rabbits?).

When breeders do it I assume it is to actually fix a gene that both have that is desired but that also means you run the risk that the father and daughter both carry a recessive gene for an abnormality as well that doesn't show any physical traits in them but if their kits ended up getting a copy of this gene from the father and the daughter (possibly along with the desired gene) they could show an abnormality. The more genetically distant the matings are the less chance you have of bringing together genes for abnormalities. However even if you buy in new stock you still run the risk that they carry that abnormal gene anyway.

Caz
 
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