Pets at home are at it again

[taylor v 109]

I have today popped in to the charlton pets store to do a check, as some will remmember i go in every now and then to check on the rabbits. Last time they were selling sick babys this time, nearley as bad. I stood and listened to the assistant telling a custermer that the rabbits were youngsters, i told the woman they were adults but she didnt take any notice [ fair enough], but then i noticed that a couple of the dutches had hair missing from the neck. Classic sign that a male has had hold for mating. I asked to seethat one and sexed it as a doe not difficult. Then i asked to see another much more mature looking one, this i checked and showed the assistant a very well hung male and said u call that a baby?.Do u know the sex og the six in together?. The reply was no because the males keep jumping over :roll: . I then pointed out the obvious to him, then he put the male in with another male and a fight broke out so he put it back with the females :roll: I said not to leave it in there but he said he would have to get the vet to check them :evil: As i know from past experience its a waste of time but i called for the manager.What a waste of time that was. He said when they get to big they put down the price and later send them back to were they came, and if they have a customer complain because their rabbit has given birth they will help,[ no dought sell the babys for them]. This is just another example of a big company taking no resposability for their live stock. I will urge u all again to stop useing this company and to spread the word about how irrisposable they are. val :(

Hiya Val, thank you for your posting.
We have edited out the name of the Company, as we request that no shops names are mentionned in the open Forum. :)
Best wishes
ADMIN

[bunnylove]

val i know what excactly what you mean i have stopped using this company for the same reason, my local one was selling 5/6 week old babies (for a customer) yer right :twisted:

i did rescue one out of there because "it was too big) :twisted: :twisted:

but refuse to do it again, it upsets me so much when i go in there i have had to stop!!!!!

but i do use companion care (there instore vets) which i have been told that one has nothing to do with the other, but am not sure....

[Jules]

I have used companion Care a couple of times in the Basingstoke branch, i would not use the Pet shop you are referring to. I was also told that they were independant and they seemed really good.

I got the feeling that they did not agree with the pet shop but were trying to improve things by giving free health checks and advice when people purchased the rabbis. It might be a good thing because if they give advise (correctly) it may stop so many impulse buys.

Lets hope so......



Sorry, ADMIN edit on shop names.
best wishes

[Rexy bexy]

never been to the pet shop you mentionned but i was looking today to find a virkon supplyer and found the pet shop have this so i found there was one by us so im going to collect the stuff had have a nose and hope i dont find what u have found, how stupid can u get, i wish the staff would have at least some amimal knowlage as these u described sound like they have non what so ever and if they dont just think about how much knowlage the new pet owner have, this stuff make me so angry and sick :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:
there is a large pet store not far from me and they can be just as bad iv been there and found sick animals and told them and they told the manager of the livestock and said its fine so i told her we breed and show rabbits and know when a rabbits is ill especilly babies and she even addmitted she had other complaints about the rabbits and didnt do any thing about it. My first rabbits were from this store and they told us a bunch of rubbish and within a few days we ended up at the vets. The one died at 2 yrs from what the vet said of beeing imbreed, and they know who they have there stock off as they have there 'own' breeders, probs back yard breeders
its so typical
becky :cry:


Sorry ADMIN edit of shop names. :)
best wishes
ADMIN

[taylor v 109]

The companion care vets are not part of pets at home but i have it on good authority that they work to targets, meaning that thay have to reach money taken targets so be carefull they they are not pusing for unneccecery treatments. val

[luvabun]

Val, this must be incredibly frustrating as it sounds like you approached it in quite a proper manner - I think I'd have found it difficult not to go into an emotional rant. So your knowledgable, helpful approach hasn't worked and we can't just say Oh well we tried (the Royal we - you're doing all the hard work). There has to be something we can do. :idea: I can't remember what was suggested/ discounted last time you brought this up - was the Watchdog option disproved of?

[Bertie]

I recommended Trading Standards, and if the large Pet shop chain are saying they don't much care about bunnies being pregnant when they leave the store then I think they might be interested. If you're buying one bunny to be your pet and you end up with a pregnant doe who drops a litter on you, then in effect they're selling unsuitable 'goods'. I know it's not nice to think of rabbits as a product, but if the RSPCA are unable to step then I really do think this is the way to go. They're a shop, and they have to abide by trading regulations, and selling sick and pregnant bunnies is no different from selling broken toasters.

If everytime you find something dodgy going on you make a report, eventually Trading Standards ends up with a file on the company and they'll launch an investigation.

ADMIN edit of shop name. :)

[Bertie]

Here's a page where you can fill in a form that will automatically send your complaint off to your local Trading Standards office...
https://www.consumercomplaints.org.uk/index.asp

And here's the page which lists the conditions you need to fulfil in order to hold a license to sell animals...

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/herefordshire/Licensing%20Applications/Pet%20Shops/Pet_Shop_Licence_Conditions_OCT_2001.pdf

(It's for Herefordshire, but I doubt there's a difference between counties)

6.0 deals with health. It's clearly stated that animals must be treated for any illnesses.

Section 15 is interesting. No animal may be sold if the staff are not familiar with the care and welfare of the animal. That one seems to cover a lot of the situations we hear about.

[taylor v 109]

Thanks for that i have just put in a complaint to the trading standards and copied the pet shops conditions. I am now going to try and contact the watch dog program, arnt computers great. :lol:

[haffyj]

some one told me not long ago when i was going to collect Crystal that instead of going all the way to kent why didin't i just go buy a rabbit from pets at home!!!! :shock:

I said to them are you havina a larf!!! it would die within a week or have babies!! they are poorly kept!!! there was no way i was getting a pet from there instead of rehoming one!!! he went on to say but they are all ok runnnig a round WITH GUINEA PIGS!!! good god i thought!!!

[sonnet]

Mmmm...totally agree with what has been said and have been following the Pet shop stories on here. We've literally just had a brand new one open up in my town so like alot of you I am now paying regular (sneeky!) visits to it to keep an eye on the rabbits. Must admit the Guineas too and yes they are mixing them - one guinea looked thoroughly fed up the other day - hmmm not surprised!

ADMIN edit of shop name :)

[Delphinum]

I've spoken to them twice about the lack of hay in the areas at the Mansfield branch, but have been ignored. I even contacted head office, the next time I went in there was hay, but the next time, none, and no pellets either. Two rabbits were actually fighting over the bin feeders trying to get the tiny morsels that were left.
I said to the boy about it and he just said "I'll check on them at the end of my shift, they're a greedy bunch." I said, "I know, I have 7." It's like, I can keep up with 7 who only need topped up twice a day, but they can't keep up with 4 bunnies in a pen. :evil:

[Bertie]

If you find the bunnies in the shop with no hay, grab a bag from off the shelf and feed them yourself. When the only staff on duty are the ones that don't know anything about bunnies and leave them with no hay, there's really no point in arguing with them. They don't pay attention to anything that goes on in the shop anyway, so I doubt they'd even notice what you did.

[Delphinum]

Yeah I was seriously thinking about it when I saw them... it's a disgusting way to treat rabbits and customers.
Next time I will, and I'll make sure it's on a busy Saturday where all the other customers can see me... They'll be thinking I'm some mad woman who feeds rabbits! :D But I'd rather that than the bunnies get impaction from not keeping the digestive system moving. :?

[Towsbuns]

If you find the bunnies in the shop with no hay, grab a bag from off the shelf and feed them yourself. When the only staff on duty are the ones that don't know anything about bunnies and leave them with no hay, there's really no point in arguing with them. They don't pay attention to anything that goes on in the shop anyway, so I doubt they'd even notice what you did.

I've done that before - I certainly got some looks :lol: :lol: Makes me feel so much better that I am not the only one.

[taylor v 109]

Been back to the pet shop tonight and they are stlii running bucks and does together. Put in a complaint to the trading standards people and have had a reply that they have my email. lets see what happens. val :twisted:
ADMIN edit of shop name :)

[Bertie]

I'll be interested to hear what they say. Hopefully they'll take more action than telling you to phone the RSPCA.

[Rspca Medway]

I cant agree with you enough. This store is a joke, it has been since it first opened as Pet ****, they had their licence taken away and changed names to Pet***** it happened again and reopened as the current names pet shop,. I work as a volunteer at Rspca Medway Branch and have fought against this shop for many years after buying a hamster and it died the next day. Then I took more intrest and was shocked to find the condition of some of there animals. Our aim is to get as many complaint into Rspca Headquaters so they will take action against the store and I hope they lose their licence to keep animals. One of the tricks I have used which they do not like, is standing near the rabbits/guinea pigs and when people look give the phone number of our small animal centre in Chatham and telling people "why pay £20 for a rabbit that might die in a week, when you can give a loving home to one of the rabbits at our centre for a donation knowing that they are fully health checked and vaccinated". I'm waiting to be chucked out of the store as I do not do this quitely, But nothing happened yet.

I urge people to contact the Rspca, if they get enough complients they will have to take on this large company. As this isnt a problem in one of their store it seem to be in most of their stores.


I have today popped in to the charlton pet shop in question to do a check, as some will remmember i go in every now and then to check on the rabbits. Last time they were selling sick babys this time, nearley as bad. I stood and listened to the assistant telling a custermer that the rabbits were youngsters, i told the woman they were adults but she didnt take any notice [ fair enough], but then i noticed that a couple of the dutches had hair missing from the neck. Classic sign that a male has had hold for mating. I asked to seethat one and sexed it as a doe not difficult. Then i asked to see another much more mature looking one, this i checked and showed the assistant a very well hung male and said u call that a baby?.Do u know the sex og the six in together?. The reply was no because the males keep jumping over :roll: . I then pointed out the obvious to him, then he put the male in with another male and a fight broke out so he put it back with the females :roll: I said not to leave it in there but he said he would have to get the vet to check them :evil: As i know from past experience its a waste of time but i called for the manager.What a waste of time that was. He said when they get to big they put down the price and later send them back to were they came, and if they have a customer complain because their rabbit has given birth they will help,[ no dought sell the babys for them]. This is just another example of a big company taking no resposability for their live stock. I will urge u all again to stop useing this company and to spread the word about how irrisposable they are. val :(


ADMIIN edit on shop names :)

[Bertie]

I knew they kept changing their name, I didn't realise that this was the reason. That's absolutely disgraceful. Presumably if you do manage to shut them down again they'll just go for another name change and start all over again.

I have to say, the care at my local store has always been adequate, not great, but adequate. What really annoys me is that they allow people to bring their dogs into the store. Of course they all congregate around the bunny village, salivating, while the stressed little rabbits huddle and hide. It's disgusting. I looked through the list of rules that stores have to adhere to in order to own a license (it's in the link I gave earlier) and it clearly stated there that this was not allowed. I know from talking to other people on the forum that this is in no way restricted to my local store.

I know RSPCA funds are stretched, and you can't speak for all branches across the country, but just from your own experiences, how committed are the RSPCA to getting these stores closed? It's been suggested that rather than ban them from selling animals, rescue centres work with the stores instead. They set up a mini-rescue in the store, take complete responsibility for caring for the animals and vetting prospective owners while the store carries on making its real profits from the sale of food, housing and accessories. Do you think this is something the RSPCA would be interested in getting involve with?

[Rspca Medway]

Most Rspca branch are committed in trying to sort out the general welfare of animal in pet shops but branches are committed to areas within their region. So as this store is on a national level it is down to our Head Quartres. I must all so stress all branches are self funded its only the large animal homes that get funding from the National Rspca. So what we do is limited as most our funds go on the animals that are in our care. It is the responsibility of the National Rspca.

I know on a personal basis we asked our local Insepector if she could go and talk with our local pet shop store manger as we had many complaints in the summer about the rabbits over heating. Unfortunately she got a frosty respection, although she was trying to help them. The manger was on the defencive from the word go, all she was trying to do is offer advice and to work together to help the animals, but excuss kept being made and she was told that the complaints were probably made, when they didn't have the adequate staff in looking after the animals(no excuess in my book).
Our inspector now pops in from time to time to check on the animals.

I must admit we can't tar all the stores with the same brush, but they do have a bad reputation and have never seem to want to take help from animal welfare orgainisations. But I i'm only going by our area, but we have tried.

ADMIN edit on shop name :)

[Denny]

I wonder if it is worth contacting watchdog :? It would get a wider televised audience with regards the amount of name chances and the reasons why :wink:

[luvabun]

There was a feature about this chain when it was called Pet*****. It was about the poor conditions of the tropical fish it was selling - there were dead fish floating away etc. - nothing happened and although its had a name change, they still sell fish so although it would be great to go down this route, I don't hold out much hope for a satisfying result.

ADMIN edit on shop name :)

[catatonic]

My partner and I posted a message earlier today as we found our beautiful white lionhead bunny "Dylan" dead in his hutch this morning. We got him about mid-Jan. from this chain of petshop in Horwich at 15 weeks old. We bought him - and everything needed to look after a rabbit, as we hadn't had one before - because my heart went out to him as he was hiding shaking in the corner of a pen. After a couple of days of love he was a happy little fella. We thoroughly researched everything we possibly could about looking after lionheads and consulted other owners. His diet was correct and he had plenty of exercise and got on REALLY well with our four cats and our little cocker spaniel. A lot of replies we've had so far have basically condemned this pets shop for how they treat their animals and where they get them from. I have read so much today about this company - Im not going to get our pet food from there anymore - I spend over £100 there every month. Is there any campaign against this pet shop? We buried our bunny today and created a memorial garden to him. We are devastated that our Dylan has been taken from us after so short a time. We are upset, angry, all the emotions you can think of. If you know of any National Campaign against this store, please let me know.

ADMIN edit on shop name :)

[Rspca Medway]

I'm so sorry to here about your loss. I know how sad it is to lose an animal i've lost many of my own and of course the animals at the centre that have passed away but although they are not my own I still get upset.

I not sure if there is a national campain, but I know members of our branch are writting to RSPCA HQ. The more letters they recieve and the more evedience they get about the company, they will be more likely to do something. Every letter counts.

My thoughts are with you :cry:

[elaine]

to be honest the best thing the pet shop could do is stop buying from a certain rabbit breeding farm that is supplying them this is well known and is not bothered about the animals I believe he has in excess of 2000 rabbits breeding purely for the big stores he does the same with guineas etc

ADMIN edit on shop name

[catatonic]

After everything Ive read on this website, Ive sent an email to BBC's Wtachdog programme. I explained everything thats happened and refered to some of the stories on this website. Hopefully this will add weight to any investigation they may have or might be planning.

[Denny]

We buried our bunny today and created a memorial garden to him. We are devastated that our Dylan has been taken from us after so short a time. We are upset, angry, all the emotions you can think of. .

Just read your other post and I am truely sorry to hear you lost Dylan :cry: :cry: there are alot of us who really do sympathise as we have been in the same position as you and understand how you feel :cry: :cry: :( I too had our bun from this Pet shop chain and lost him just before he was one and certainly know where you are coming from as its the 'not knowing why' he died that gives you these mixed emotions of sadness and anger. I really feel for you :cry: I too have buried our bunny in the garden next to my beloved cat. I have a cat and a rabbit ornament on top of where they are buried and I think about the funny things they did every day :cry: I am also at the stage where I can now smile with fondest memories at the things they did and even though I only had Mr Bojangles for a short time, I dont ever regret having him even though he was from this pet shop chain but just wished he could have stayed with me alot longer than he did :( Since being on this forum, I have learnt so much, things that no book will tell you and wished I had known about the rescues too. Hope you sick around and maybe when the time is right you might get another bunny as I am sure Dylan would want you to give another needy bunny a loving home as you clearly have one to give :)

My heart goes out to you catatonic :(

ADMIN edit on shop name :)

[haffyj]

I hope something gets done about them, i feel for those poor bunnies and other animals that have a poor start in life :(

[taylor v 109]

Just a short up date i have complained to the rspca watchdog and the trading standard people now waiting replys. val

[Adele]

Just a short up date i have complained to the rspca watchdog and the trading standard people now waiting replys. val

Well done Val :thumb: lets hope you get somewhere with this, at least you have tried and I commend you for that :D

[rabshan]

Well done val...keep on persevering & you will get somewhere, they have to be stopped!!! now does anyone fancy taking on a pet shop near me their record on rabbit care is abyssmal even the RSPCA won,t go there anymore.
ADMIN edit on shop name :)

[Rspca Medway]

I use to live near that pet shop many years ago and yes its just the same as the other pet shop in question, could be classed as worse as they don't just sell small animals, they also sell cats and dogs. I used to be classed as a trouble maker as I was alway's complain about something in their animal department.

I haven't been there for a couple of years I take it, its hasn't got any better. Do they still have their rabbits/guinea pigs under there birds, this use to be one of my biggest arguements as the rabbits/guinea pigs use to always be covered in bird droppings.

I dont believe this store is still going strong.

ADMIN edit on shop names :)

[SOAD]

I have a jolleys by me, they don't sell any animals just supplies. Have they recently started selling animals?

[haffyj]

I use to live near that pet shop many years ago and yes its just the same as the other pet shop in question, could be classed as worse as they don't just sell small animals, they also sell cats and dogs. I used to be classed as a trouble maker as I was alway's complain about something in their animal department.

I haven't been there for a couple of years I take it, its hasn't got any better. Do they still have their rabbits/guinea pigs under there birds, this use to be one of my biggest arguements as the rabbits/guinea pigs use to always be covered in bird droppings.

I dont believe this store is still going strong.

i go to jolleys to get my pet food @ crews hill their rabbits and guineas don't live under birds thank god but they do mix rabbits and guineas in the same run area!!! the do live in bigger runs than the dogs!!! i could swear that the german sheppherds in there have been there for a while, that is were i got clarrisa from he tried to palm me off by saying she was 12 weeks old but she was alot bigger than charlie i knew she was at least 6 months old

ADMIN edit on shop names

[rabshan]

HI...last time I was in that pet shop they had lots of different breeds of rabbits all mixed in with each other, can you wonder that they are sick when you get bunns from lots of sources all shoved in together...mixed in with G.P.s. I had bought a bunny from there once, paid a lot for it (it was supposed to be a pure bred french lop) turned out to be a cross breed & riddled with worms, I met several other people who got their bunnies from there & they all said theres were infected with worms. I met a friend this week who said she had bought some hay from there for her G.P.s & bunns & it had mites in it...beats me how they can get away with it!!! I would not go there again, I did consider staging a protest outside with some friends but decided not to as they have snakes & if someone waved one of those at me I,d probably die of fright (coward)love from shan.
ADMIN edit on shop names :)

[rabshan]

Ooops...forgot to mention that they charge £100. each for a frenchie & were asking £900 for a staffie puppy.

[SOAD]

:shock: £100 is that how much a pure breed costs?

[Adele]

:shock: £100 is that how much a pure breed costs?

Some of the rarer breed bunnies, Continental Giants and British Giants can sell for 150 pounds plus.

[Caz]

Zeus (continental giant) cost me £85 over a year ago but we got a bag of his current food, bedding, hay, care instructions etc too.

I would think that unless you were buying stock for breeding you wouldn't want to spend more than £100 on a rabbit even if they are show quality!

I certainly wouldn't have spent so much if I had seen him for sale in a pet shop, I got him from a specialist breeder.

Kinda regret it now considering how much he has cost me in vets fees since.

Caz

[rabshan]

Now Now caz...you know you don,t mean that DO YOU??? he,s worth every penny you paid for him he,s gorgeous.

[kayj]

I have often called in my local pets at home on a busy saturday and gone up to people who are loking to but a rabbit and said to them that I have rescues that need kind loving homes & why don't they adopt, I have given them my number and some have actually contacted me.

[Caz]

Now Now caz...you know you don,t mean that DO YOU??? he,s worth every penny you paid for him he,s gorgeous.

Oops my smilies on that reply have vanished - I don't really mean it - had a bad day that day after another round of x-rays!

I wouldn't swap him for the world now he is such a darling I just wish he was a healthy as well as happy for his sake more than mine!

Caz

[taylor v 109]

The price of rabbits varries, the rarer the breed the more u are going to pay, because not many people breed giants than can command a higher price. Many breeders of giants have had to import them so they cost a lot to start with, but i think they are a bit expensive. If u look around there are breeders of continentals that only charge £40.If u get in touch with the british rabbit council they will tell u if there are any breeders in ur area. If u buy from show stock u are likley to pay more. The smaller breeds go for less, because they are very common but it dosent mean their not pure breed. val

[Salsa]

It seems to me the thing to do is to try and get them to stop selling the animals and just to sell the feed, toys, etc. If people succeed in shutting them down because of their behaviour towards the animals, then 6 months down the line they will be back under a new name doing the same thing.

I don't want to defend their animal husbandry, which I agree is appalling in a lot of cases, but surely they can do what they do best which is to sell food and supplies.

I like the idea of the rescue centres having a corner of the store to talk to people about adopting, and this could easily replace the current animal situation (especially if representatives could take animals from the rescue to meet the public and put pictures up of the available animals). Is this feasable ? Is there anything we could do as a community to get this sort of thing going ?

[jrn1310]

P@H in Brentford have on a weekend an animal rescue who take some of their cats who are looking for new homes along to meet the public. They can give pet care advise or information about adopting a rescued animal.

[FunnyBunnyRunny]

I worked at Pet City back in '95 and my brother was a manager of Pet City, PetSmart and Pets@ Home for about 6 or 7 years , after working there and really seeing what goes on neither of us has any wish to put any money through the tills of that company if we can possibly avoid it.

[taylor v 109]

Well im SICK. After being told a couple of weeks ago that the trading standards people were going to my local p@h to recamend they cover their rabbit pens, i find that nothing has changed screemmmmmmmmmm.I thought at least id got somthing acheived. :cry: They make me sick.

[bunnylove]

HI...last time I was in that pet shop they had lots of different breeds of rabbits all mixed in with each other, can you wonder that they are sick when you get bunns from lots of sources all shoved in together...mixed in with G.P.s. I had bought a bunny from there once, paid a lot for it (it was supposed to be a pure bred french lop) turned out to be a cross breed & riddled with worms, I met several other people who got their bunnies from there & they all said theres were infected with worms. I met a friend this week who said she had bought some hay from there for her G.P.s & bunns & it had mites in it...beats me how they can get away with it!!! I would not go there again, I did consider staging a protest outside with some friends but decided not to as they have snakes & if someone waved one of those at me I,d probably die of fright (coward)love from shan.
ADMIN edit on shop names :)

i have been there a couple of times only because they arethe only people round ere that sell ready grass, but they are very expensive, they want to charge £35/40 for a mixed breed rabbit and no offense as i love my buns but most independant shops will only charge a £10, personally i would rather rescue a rabbit from a centre

[emilou]

I have to admit ive never seen any bad treatment in the portsmouth branch but ive had a very near miss at the vets within the branch when they told me my rabbit Brad needed a general anasthetic and teeth work they quoted me loads and there was never anything wrong with his teeth. He lived happily for 3 years after never needing any dental work in his life. I think bunnies should only be avilable from reputable breeders and rescues that episode put me off the vets and the shop for life.

[Mizzmarni]

I got my rabbit from exactly that store!!!!

I really did not want to i just went in for pet supplies and the bun was so gorgeous i had to have her. Lucky enough she is fine so it's ok but i dont think i will be buying a bunny from a large chain (i wanted to get her from a breeder but could not find one locally)!!

Im all worried now!

Mizzmarni
XXXXXXXXXXXXXxx

[kelly]

My best friend worked as the livestock mamager of pet city some years back. She told me a few horror stories from there. She used to give me the older hammies that she was told to 'dispose' of or 'take around the back'. Luckily she got out of there as soon as she could but she had a good heart and when she worked there she did care for the animals.
There was also another lad that worked there whom I was asking about the reptiles, I was asking specific questions about a water snake when he told me the completely wrong diet to feed that type of snake. Luckily I have kept reptiles all of my life and have some knowledge on them and was able to correct him. he told me he had NO knowledge whatsoever on reptiles but was still put in charge of that section.

[mad about bunnys]

hi can anyone give me the adress for the HQ of the RSPCA as i have taken lots of photos of a very bad pet store not pets at home and i want to write a complaint letter.

[luvabun]

hi can anyone give me the adress for the HQ of the RSPCA as i have taken lots of photos of a very bad pet store not pets at home and i want to write a complaint letter. Have you tried the website? theres usually a contact us on there. Good luck.

[.::.whiterabbit.::.]

pets at home are usless! when i was 10 i went to get a hamster i go what sex is it and he said oh i dunno so i picked it up and said..oh thats a girl! the man looked so embarrased! :oops:

[bunnyhuggger]

Not all P@H are useless, some are very good. It's not fair to tar them all with the same brush if only some are bad :wink:

Running a rescue, it would be easy for me to say that bunny owners are stupid cos I see loads of poorly and neglected buns, but I know that there's others out there who adore their bunnies and give them all the care and attention they could ever want :D

[Marmite]

Hi all new to this group but i felt i had to comment on this discussion. Having worked in a pet shop for a limited time (came home with most of them and tried to put changes into place) if an animal is sent back to a supplier as suggested by ets at home. The supplier has no need for older animals or 'defective' ones which to me deserve just as much attention and love so they are PTS by the supplier (now this was not pets at home that i worked in but it was a large chain).

The only way to stop pet shops is to boycot thier products - dont buy anything or use any service within them as they will be paying rent and other costs to the company. Also to educate the local people to the practices of the shop if you can verify them. I have a great link with a worker in our ocal pets at home and she rings me up about any animal that may be getting sent back to the supplier. Then i can pay either a nominal price or in most cases offer anew home to them is enough. The way i did this was to speak to an assistant who came accross as a genuine animal lover and took note of what i was saying.
It is not solving the issue of the supply of animals but at least those 'unwanted' or unsaleable can get a chance at life.
Hope i havent ranted on. too much just thought people should get the full picture of behind the scenes.

[beckiboo186]

Have any of u had replies from watchdog yet?!

[HS]

Not all P@H are useless, some are very good. It's not fair to tar them all with the same brush if only some are bad :wink:

The one near us is great. I always check the animals if I'm nearby (quite a dangerous occupation - it's so hard to resist them :D ) and they've always lots of space, food and water.
I don't know what I'd do if they weren't very caring though. It must be very upestting and frustrating.

[Ben123]

I bought a rabbit from pets at ****, on saturday. (my 2nd)
After a little while after close inspection, i noticed her eyes were rolling back to her tail repeatedly, and she kept turning right and walking around in circles. This gave me some concern to say the least, as i had read up before on a condition known as 'head roll' which is the worst thing for a rabbit to have. After lots of research on the internet etc i thought the symptons were similiar to that of E. Cuniculi. (which is a parasitic infection, which is usually transmitted orally, by rabbits eating feaces or urine, or even inhaling the vapours and breathing in 'spores' from the urine, from another infected rabbit). This as i am sure you will agree with me is VERY worrying. When we bought her she was sharing the enclosure with atleast 3 other female kits. After having spoken to the vet, which i use on a regular basis, she said i should be very worried about an 8 week old rabbit showing these signs, she thought it was one of two things, a parasite in the brain or spinal trauma. I thought it would be a good idea to call and get advice from her first as i am familiar with their level of service and expertise, whereas the calibre of vet they use at pets at **** is obviously going to be called into question because of the assosication. Anyway... They called me yesterday and said that she has a parasite (which i think is E. Cuniculi) and she is on a 9 day treatment of medication, and i am praying that she will recover, however i was told by both vets that this is very very unlikely, especially at her age. Ultimately she will have to be put down, which is very sad. I will keep everyone posted.

However... This raises several questions...

Is the breeder they use breeding rabbits in an unsanitary and unsatisfactory environment?, which is probably riddled with parasite's? If so this is sick and unethical.

Where any other rabbits in the enclosure infected?, or will an infection develop?

Is the enclosure Infected?, (seeing as feaces and urine from my rabbit will no doubt have been left in the pen).

Will the next batch of rabbits become infected in the pets at home inclosure?


I think trading standards will be hearing from me, and so will the RSPCA.

Ben

[abbymarysmokey]

Ben123...I'm very sorry to hear about your bun from P@H ...and shocked that you were sold a rabbit in this condition :cry:

However, there is a 3rd possibility...inner ear infection, which is not usually detectable by looking down the ear, so if suspected is usually treated with a course of antibiotics in the hope that it clears up (treatment last many months before improvement is seen)

Please don't have your bunny put to sleep!!!!

If you tell us what area you live in, somebody with rabbit experience may be able to help you out.

Amy

[*Spider*]

In Charlton?
I go there every week (season tickets at CAFC)
I will go in there this Saturday and have a look :thumb:

[Ben123]

Hi Amy, I think you have misunderstood what i have written before. Firstly its not the rabbits fault that it was sold to me, so im not bothered that it was sold to me in that 'condition', and i know If it had not of been, i can assure you, that as a 'damaged good/product' if would have of been disposed of. I am also aware that, it could have of been an ear infection, this was my first thought, as i know the 'initial' symptoms are very similiar to that of E.C or Head roll etc. But, after diagnosis by 2 vets they have confirmed that she has a parasite in her brain (as mentioned before). Which is Fatal. Very few rabbits survive, especially one of this age. Seeing as the younger they are, the more susceptible they are to viruses etc. If by the slim chance she survives with minimal damage, i would prefer to keep her and tend to her needs, being 'pts' is something i really would like to avoid, however... Trained professionals have told me she is extraordinarily ill. She will be on medication for 9 days, if there is no improvement then this parasite will only continue to worsen her condition until paralysis kicks in, and then ultimately a painful horrific death. Now.. I know which way i would prefer to go. Also, i have another rabbit, which i would have to keep this one away from, as the infection can stay active in the rabbit for up to 90 days. I dont want both to die.

[Lread]

I'm so sorry to hear about your rabbit, I hope she can make a recovery.

I got my two rabbits from the same store as you and I took them straight to the vets to be checked out as they were sneezing - I had to treat them for 3 - 4 months on antibiotics. It was quite upsetting to see my new bunnies though trips to the vets every few days.

Pets at Home did pay the entire vets bills and a few extra that I brought at my vets (hay, feed etc). But so they should, selling poorly bunnies, every time I went back to claim the vet bills I’d check the rabbit and quite a few were sneezing.


Hence, I don’t shop at pets at home anymore.

[Jack's-Jane]

Hi Amy, I think you have misunderstood what i have written before. Firstly its not the rabbits fault that it was sold to me, so im not bothered that it was sold to me in that 'condition', and i know If it had not of been, i can assure you, that as a 'damaged good/product' if would have of been disposed of. I am also aware that, it could have of been an ear infection, this was my first thought, as i know the 'initial' symptoms are very similiar to that of E.C or Head roll etc. But, after diagnosis by 2 vets they have confirmed that she has a parasite in her brain (as mentioned before). Which is Fatal. Very few rabbits survive, especially one of this age. Seeing as the younger they are, the more susceptible they are to viruses etc. If by the slim chance she survives with minimal damage, i would prefer to keep her and tend to her needs, being 'pts' is something i really would like to avoid, however... Trained professionals have told me she is extraordinarily ill. She will be on medication for 9 days, if there is no improvement then this parasite will only continue to worsen her condition until paralysis kicks in, and then ultimately a painful horrific death. Now.. I know which way i would prefer to go. Also, i have another rabbit, which i would have to keep this one away from, as the infection can stay active in the rabbit for up to 90 days. I dont want both to die.

Hi Ben

Firstly, whilst EC is a nasty condition it is not always fatal
A 9 day course of Fenbendazole ( Panacur/Lapizole ) is not long enough. The course needs to be at least 28 days, preferably 42 days. The symptoms of EC are not caused by the actual protozoa but by the spores it has shed. The spores migrate to various parts of the body, usually the Central Nervous System and Kidneys, but it can also effect the liver, the lens of the eyes and the heart.There is anecdotal evidence that it may also effect the GI tract.

As the spores become embedded into the body tissue an inflammatory response occurs. It is the inflammation that causes the symptoms. So aswell as Fenbendazole an anti-inflammatory such as Meloxicam (Metacam) should be prescribed plus an antibiotic to cover for any secondary bacterial infection.

EC spores are excreted via the kidneys in the urine. So all in contact Rabbits need to be treated with Fenbendazole. The Rabbits accomodation should be cleaned daily using a dilute bleach solution. Contamination of feed from urine should be minimised by using hay racks and clean feed dishes.

I have several Rabbits who have had an active case of EC .It is thought that up to 50% of all domestic Rabbits will have had contact with the Protozoal Parasite. Some may just excrete it without symptoms. Others may become ill.

I would really advise you not to give up on the Baby Bun this early on in treatment. I have seen Buns with EC who at first could not stand up, they rolled about and 2 had seizures. THEY ALL SURVIVED
Recovery may take a long time, months rather than weeks, but it is possible.

[Ben123]

Just so you know, i have'nt got the rabbit. The vet out-sourced by pets at ****, are holding on to her for 9 days and treating her. Im hoping she will be fine. Are you a vet?

Ben

[*fluffybunny*]

My bun has had EC for 5 years and is still going strong, she is panacured for 28 days about 5 times a year and is spoiled rotten but so far 'touch wood' she's OK.

[raine]

Can you check with the vet that they are carrying out the treatment recommended by Jane. Not all vets are rabbit savvy and, it would be in this babys interest, to be proactive and to ask what they are doing for her. Thankfully she has you interested in her wellbeing and not a store. Keep us up dated.

[Jack's-Jane]

Just so you know, i have'nt got the rabbit. The vet out-sourced by pets at ****, are holding on to her for 9 days and treating her. Im hoping she will be fine. Are you a vet?

Ben

No, I am not a Vet but I have had some experience with caring for Buns with 'active EC'

I do hope they dont give up on the little one...........

[Fairy13]

Hiya, just to second (or third!) what others has said, that for an active EC infection 28 days treatment on panacur is necessary, and as Jane said maybe even longer. 9 days will not be long enough. Many people on here have had buns that were very ill with EC that have recovered.
Sending lots of vibes for little bun. x x

[tomhighway]

My kermit had EC at a young age.....he was rolling, had head tilt, nystygmus (eye flickering) and couldnt even stand.....he needed round the clock care for about 4 to 5 weeks.

Then mega love and attention even up until now.

He got 6 weeks panacur treatment. 8 weeks baytril and stemetil injections.

He still has head tilt, but he is running about and is a very lively bunny.

I think that care at the vets wount be as good as home care, so they might give up on the bun too early.

If you can, then i would try the panacur for at least 4weeks, as long as the bun is eating & drinking.

[Ben123]

I called pets at **** just to inquire about the parasite, and to see if they couldnt verify which type of illness she had, but told be she was being treated with 'FENBENDAZDE' which after typing into google, i think is actually called 'FENBENDAZOLE' for 9 days, then they will assess, and administer further treatment if necessary. Can anyone shed some light on this? I have also asked them to make sure they do not put her to sleep without my authorisation, and i would have to be with her should this be the only way. (i think im paranoid that they will try to do it to hide the evidence of any infection in the store etc).

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Ben

(p.s. thanks for all the input guys)

[tomhighway]

'FENBENDAZOLE' is Panacur, so the bun is on the correct thing....most studies have proven that a 28day or 6 week course is needed to fight the parasite in the brain (EC).

From personal experience, if i had just given kermit a 9 day course, there is no way he would be here today.....he didnt even start to perk up until at least 2 weeks treatment.

If you need to ask me anything about this, please feel free.....im feeling like an expert after everything me and the wee guy have been through!

[Ben123]

Has Kermit fully recovered? Do you have a URL with any supporting evidence of this? Or do you know where i can find this sort of proof supporting the 28 day theory? Id like to show it to the vet, to support the claim. I told them that it should be 28 days, but they didnt sound convinced.

[Madmoo]

All I hear and see regarding this store is bad, bad, bad. A friend of mine told me that when she was in her local store the other day, the door to the staff only section was open and when she passed she was horrified to see rabbits, guineas, etc all stacked on top of each other in boxes. They were obviously waiting for space in the front of the store for them.

I am now refusing to use this store any more - it breaks my heart every time I go in there - whether it's just looking at the animals or hearing the appalling advice given by the staff to new owners.

Can't we get together as a collective to take some action?

Any ideas?

[tomhighway]

Has Kermit fully recovered? Do you have a URL with any supporting evidence of this? Or do you know where i can find this sort of proof supporting the 28 day theory? Id like to show it to the vet, to support the claim. I told them that it should be 28 days, but they didnt sound convinced.

Kermit has not fully recovered, as in he still has head tilt....which causes him to roll, maybe 10 times a day. But apart from that he is a normal fun loving bunny. He runs about the living room, lazes in front of the fireplace and licks loads.

So, no, he isnt 100%, but he is probably 98%.....and me and him have a great bond probably because i nursed him through the bad times.

Maybe these sites will help. Good Luck!

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=117926
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/Panacur-E-Cuniculi.htm
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/rabbit-E-C.htm

[Ben123]

I got a call from pets at **** today about my rabbit. She is perking up a bit now, and the vet has decided to put her on a further 21 day course (30 days in total) which is good. I have been told that once they are cured, they are cured and the parasite is no longer transmittable. Is this true? Does anyone know?

[LuceMarbles]

Not in my case Ben. Both my bunnies had recurring attacks of this though less was known about the causes and treatment then. I had 3 buns living indoors close together, 2 got it and one never did. In the 2 it recurred 2 to 3 times but they always recovered fully though it took a good month or slightly longer.
Was the recurring due to Panacur treatment being too short? I don't know.

[bluesavannah]

I bought as 'french lop' doefrompets at home in the west midlands cos ifeltsorry for her she was thin, anorexic with major gut stasis. I gave her fluids and various jabs syringe fed her and 1 day later she died.
I made a complaint not only was the rabbit in such bad condition but i paid £129 for her but icouldn't just let her die. They said there was nothing they could do as the shopmanager said she was in perfect condition when she left the shop which was a huge lie!
They are a disgrace and need to be thoroughly investigated!

[bluesavannah]

Once the parasite is gone don't think it can be transmitted but that doesn't stop it comin back after an initial blood test to confirm the condition the blood test should be repeated a month later to ensure the parasite has gone.Fenbendazole is panacur but I think the rabbit panacur has other active ingredients but not sure without checking my formulary!hope this helps!

[Lspacehopper]

I bought as 'french lop' doefrompets at home in the west midlands cos ifeltsorry for her she was thin, anorexic with major gut stasis. I gave her fluids and various jabs syringe fed her and 1 day later she died.
I made a complaint not only was the rabbit in such bad condition but i paid £129 for her but icouldn't just let her die. They said there was nothing they could do as the shopmanager said she was in perfect condition when she left the shop which was a huge lie!
They are a disgrace and need to be thoroughly investigated!

How far did you take your complaint? Just curious because had I paid £129 for anything, let alone a living thing and it wasn't in a state fit for sale then I would seriously be taking it all the way.

I'm surprised that nothing was done for you as this certainly isn't the way things are to be dealt with. How long ago was this? Which store was it? if you'd care to pass the info to me in PM, perhaps I can pursue the issue for you? As a store manager for PAH, in no way could I condone this response.

[bluesavannah]

yes it was oldbury in the west midlands i sent emails recoreded letters spoke tothe manager even my local branch now thought it was a disgrace but that is what they concluded as I did not have vets records to back it up as she didn't make it to the vets-as I worked in a vets I could have wrote the notes myself to prove my point but that is illegal and not worth my job so there was nothing I could do as i didn't have the receipt just that sheet they give you. I don't keep receipts for my pets cos i don't plan on returning them. I can say me and my partner was fuming I swaer they thought I was pulling a fast one to get my money back i will try and hunt the email out for you if i still have it!

[CRBevis]

I went in my local one and they had some lovely buns, none had eaten their cecals probably cos they had the bigest dish of pellets i have ever seen and none of their shop brand cra**y hay they give them.

Next day had to go in again, stupidly went and had another look and one of the rabbits who was fine day before had either scratches or bite marks on each ear and again cecals every where.

I complained and got the answer of yeah sometimes buns get a bit stroppy with each other dear. Thet be fine.

I gave her the low down and said about the **** they feeding which also passes onto people who go in see a cute bunny with water and big food bowl and hey what an easy cheap pet to get the kids!:evil:

[Ted an Petal]

I live in Northern ireland and theres one of those stores in belfast. When i went looking for bunns myself i went in there to see some, they had terrible breeding and the shop wouldn't sell me two unless they where from the same mother, which i thought quite harlious considering they had 5 different types living together in the glass cage. They also import all their rabbits from england over to here, thought it was strange that they wouldn't use local breeders. I'd hate to see how their travelling went. Instead my nanny is good friends with a local breeder and i bought from her. But your just right for complaining, good on ya. Keep us updated.

[Tracey8581]

I bought as 'french lop' doefrompets at home in the west midlands cos ifeltsorry for her she was thin, anorexic with major gut stasis. I gave her fluids and various jabs syringe fed her and 1 day later she died.
I made a complaint not only was the rabbit in such bad condition but i paid £129 for her but icouldn't just let her die. They said there was nothing they could do as the shopmanager said she was in perfect condition when she left the shop which was a huge lie!
They are a disgrace and need to be thoroughly investigated!

I was so sorry to read what you went through Katie. Pets At Home need to be told that they can't do this to rabbits. It is so sad. :(