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Just a question re diet...

LurcherGirl

Mama Doe
Has anyone ever heard of the theory that wheat/cereals are BAD for bunnies? I got into a dispute on an Austrian rabbit board where they are totally against feeding any kinds of cereals/wheat... and here I am, never having heard of it (and I do do a lot of reading on-line and books - for the last six years) and wondering whether they know more than we/I do, or whether there is just one or two wannabe-clever bunny owners that put this "fact" on the internet and everyone believes it.

I have left that forum as I was told in no uncertain terms that my opinion is not welcome and that I was not allowed to recommend my way of feeding bunnies (excel as well as SS contains wheat) ...

Anyone ever heard of this? If so, what are the sources of that knowledge?
 
i hope it's not as my buns are fed on SS and I occasionally give them bits of cereal e.g. weetabix and they seem to be perfectly healthy buns to me :?
 
Were they really classing pellets as cereals/wheat or did they mean the processed cereal stuff like Weetabix etc. as I know there's been a discussion on here about the suitablilty of them. I would never have thought for one minute that pellets would come under the cereals/wheat category.
 
They claim that anything with the slightest trace of cereals/wheat in it is unhealthy and can cause digestive/dental/you name it problems...

Vera
 
well mine a get some weetabix and shredies as a treat from time to time and i know too much isnt good for them but the stuff in rabbits food is fine from what i can see.
becky
 
What do they feed their rabbits then

Just hay and vegetables ... which is definitely one way of doing it, but I took offence that it should be the only way and that I was not allowed to suggest anything else! :(
 
Denny said:
What do they feed their rabbits then :?:

There goes Obi-Wan again :lol: :lol:

I would expect Burgess et al. to be quite upset by this as I feel they have put a lot of thought and research nto their pellets. Its a bit like expecting us to live on berries and seeds and the odd slaughtered woollly mammoth just because we did before we had a choice.
 
Thats the "hay and veggies" diet. Technically it should be quite a good diet for rabbits as its got lots on fibre and things their tummies can digest well. The important thing though is to give a good mix of veggies so you get all the important vitamins and minerals. If you think about it even if you do feed pellets as well these are (or should be) in very small quantities.

One other thing to bare in mind is that you need vitamin D to process calcium, this is usually got from the sun's uv's but an indoor rabbit may not get enough sun for this. Most pellets have vit D added.

Its certainly a diet option worth concidering but its not the only way and might not be right for all bunnies. Particularly those that have trouble keeping on weight.

Tam
 
Just as a slihtley more historical point. The main problem of wild rabbits in the UK was crop damage, prior to the intoeduction of myxi. Principally eating of cereal crops as much as 2/3 of any crop waws eaten. Farmers would then supplement their income with rabbit meat and fur...

So if cereals were that bad for rabbits would wild ones really eat them or is just that they are uneducated?

Anthony
 
Bramblespack said:
So if cereals were that bad for rabbits would wild ones really eat them or is just that they are uneducated?

Anthony

I was told in lectures that bunnies can't really distinguish between what's good or bad for them, and will just eat anything...which is why a lot of wild rabbits will die after eating something they shouldn't...*shrugs*

As for the "hay and veggies diet", it's an option to consider, but it's almost inevitable that the bun wouldn't get enough of everything, especially protein. We've been told at Uni to discourage owners from "creating" their own diets, which happens often with dogs, cat, and rabbits...
 
Maaike - when you say 'creating' diets, what do you mean? Are you talking about for example, feeding BARF to a dog?
 
Tamsin said:
Its certainly a diet option worth concidering but its not the only way and might not be right for all bunnies. Particularly those that have trouble keeping on weight.
Tam

Firstly Happy New Tams!!

I think this reply is "spot on" with Diets - everyone bunny is going to be individual and have differing needs.

My Critter Crew (on advise from Guru Adele) and backed up by Tams here is that they do get a minimal amount of SS Pellets (which they absolutely love) and minimal Fresh Herbs and Veg selection daily and humungous amounts of good fresh Hay and (touching wood :roll: ) they are all thriving on this diet.
Buffs also has a small amount of baby food mixed with her pellets with some oats daily as she needs to keep weight on.

Oh and I almost forgot the Famous Bunny Mash taken from some of the lovely receipes on this site which they love.
They do get a very occassional Rasin treat but thats about all.

Now I guess that Vets could convey that yep I am making up my own diet for my bunnies and don't get me wrong my Vet is a very Bunny Savy brilliant Vet and I really value her expertise and judgement but I think as a Bunny Mum you "know your Bunn" and have to also trust your own judgement and the many good experienced folks on this Forum that have specific experience of just bunny ailments including dietry problems.

Please, please don't think that for one minute I'm "knocking" Veterinary advice but I think now there are sometimes more options with diets for Bunnies that some practices may be aware of.
 
Phew, I am just glad that I haven't lost the plot... was getting worried there for a bit. It seems that the owners of that Austrian rabbit board has got ONE source of information, believe in this one particular type of diet and will not accept any other opinions on their board... It's of course their prerogative - and since I am not forced to stay a member of a board where I don't feel comfortable, I have said my goodbyes. Sad really as I hoped to build some communication on the subject of rabbits between here (UK/America) and the continent... it didn't work! I guess that's why I emigrated from Switzerland to the UK... :idea: :lol:
 
nicolar said:
Maaike - when you say 'creating' diets, what do you mean? Are you talking about for example, feeding BARF to a dog?

I feel like a bad nurse here, but don't actually know what BARF is?!

With "creating" diets, I mean mixing your own feed. A bit of this, a bit of that, mixing it into a multi-component feed. It's most commonly done with dogs. It's best to feed a pellet that contains all the nutrients the animal needs, in a concentrated form.

I myself feed the buns a MINIMUM amount of pellets, to make sure they get their protein and fibre in, ad lib hay, and quite a lot of veg. I do, however, feed Excel pellets as they're concentrated, and avoid selective feeding which you can get with muesli mixes...

Now I'm babbling, sorry!
 
Hiya

Don't worry, lots of doggy people don't know about it!! It's Bones and Raw Food diet, basically chicken wings, meat, veg etc for dogs. The reason I mentioned this is that lots of ppl do this without recognising that dogs need certain nutrients in certain quantities. There are lots of books out there explaining it. When it is done properly it is a brill diet for a dog and most do well on it, shiny coats, good teeth etc but it does take a lot of preparation especially initially. I think once you are into the swing of it prep times are cut but obv not as easy as feeding a complete diet.

I think that as long as you know what you are doing it is fine, a friend's dog has a mix of a few complete foods and he looks great! The problem with the complete foods is they put stuff in them which basically 'addicts' the dog to it causing them to not want to eat anything else! My friend does obv know what she is doing though!!!

Getting back to rabbits ..lol... mine have small amount of pellets/mix and loads veg + hay. I think that some buns can't tolerate the pellets/mixes though, in which case a hay and veggie diet supplemented with vits is def the best for them. As Tamsin has said, every bun is individual and we musn't blanket the whole rabbit population by saying one diet suits all. I'm lucky in that Pippa has a mix, but she doesn't selective feed (don't give her enough to do so!lol).

Think this will always b a good topic for discussion as there are so many different diets out there with so many happy, well-fed buns :)

Nicola
 
Thanks for telling me about that, Nicola! I hadn't heard of that yet!

The problem with feeding only meat to dogs is that, like you said, they miss out on some essential nutrients.

Did you know that you can feed a dog on a vegetarian diet only (so no meat at all), but you can't do that with a cat? Meat's essential for a cat, but not for a dog...another one of those interesting tid bits you pick up in nutrition class...;)
 
thought id add my tuppence

I think there has been some confusion on this austrian? board regarding bunny mixes.

i think what has came through is bunnies fed on mixes develope teeth problems, burgess may have a good reputation in other departments but their suparabbit is one of the worst things to give a bun teeth wise although the bunny excell is ideal.

Wild rabbits dont suffer tooth problems like the domestic bun. In the wild a rabbit would not have the bun food we give our buns, they eat grasses, hays and various veggies they find. So perhaps it shoulbe be given some thought to feeding our buns. I feed mine as much hay as they can eat, they do actually get suparabbit, but i also give them excell to munch on(probably why ive got overweight buns lol).They get fresh veggies daily.

Im doing a bit of research into tooth problems in rabbits in my spare time (what i have of it). Im thinking of conducting a survey to find if it is the food we give buns which is damaging their teeth and causing so many problems, i was shocked to find one in three rabbits are put to sleep due to chronic teeth and jaw problems, most popular being the netherland dwarf.

If anyone is interested in this type of survey do let me know.
 
I'd definitely be interested in your tooth survey, Donna. Count me in and contact me as and when you need any info.

I have one rabbit out of seven with dental problems - and it is a breed which is not normally associated with dental issues at all. Apollo is a British Giant having an uneven jawline at the back hence causing malocclusion back there. He also had two loose teeth that have been extracted a while ago. My vet was very surprised to see a BG with tooth problems... It is of course a genetic issue in this case and nothing to do with diet - although a diet high in fibre of course helps with managing the problem.

None of my other rabbits (and chinchillas by the way) have ever had any dental problems, and four of them are lops... But about 70 to 80% of their diet is hay and dried grass! The rest is veggies and a small amount of Science Selective. My guys don't have any digestive problems on this diet either!

I can see that overfeeding of cereals/wheat etc is bad for rabbits, but what annoyed me about that thread on the Austrian board is that they behaved as if it was poison, even in the most minute amounts... and that is just not true - and all of you seem to think the same... (thank god). Never mind, I am happy that I haven't completely lost the plot and that I am not that out of touch with current thought about rabbit diet...
 
hi again

I know what you mean about forums, some are so very cliquey and many of the forums ive been on kinda scorn you for adding your tuppence worth, i have to congratulate this forum so far, as ive been made welcome.

I have to confess ive never really been into rescuing rabbits that long, it kinda came accidentally. I tend to specialise in the more unusal rodents as pets, ie. degus, chins, dare i say rats. I do tend to specialise more in ratties and degus in particular, as no one seems to take these in, where as i know there huge numbers of buns looking for homes, but there seems not to be enough but there are other places, whereas the more exotic pets, there seems very little.

Ive had buns since i was a kid, and to be perfectly honest ive never came across the tooth problems that are about nowadays than just recently in the last five years possibly more.

Im not sure why this is, i personally suspect the sheer range of foods available for buns nowadays, whereas when i was growing up, there seemed to be very little. the survey wouldnt really be used for anythign other than building up my knowledge base, see how far widespread the problem is and trying hopefully to address the issue. perhaps in time we can convert the petstores into supply the correct feeding information for bun and we may see less sad cases being put down.

I have chillas too, with no problems with teeth as yet, (they too busy chewing my door and my skirting lol).

When i jsut had the four buns, they used to live indoors, and i didnt have any problems with teeth, dougal my recent wee fellah really shocked the hell out of me, it was only then i started looking into the problems with teeth. Im hoping to specialise in rabbit and rodent nursing when i qualify, but do like to keep my hand in areas which interest me greatly.

the questions i have at the moment (still working on a format and other things for survey/questionaire) are as follows, if anyone would like to add anything, that would be much appreciated.

Breed of bun:
Age of bun:
age of bun when acquired:
What bun eats: diet
house or outdoor bun
amount of hay given
any toys/chews given
sex of bun

the breed and age and when acquired will point me in the right direction as to whether its dietery or genetic me finks
diet of course plays a big part as does chews and stuff. i didnt think sex would be relevent, but thought id add just to see if its more widespread in males or females. As i say im still working on it.

This science selective you mentioned, what is this please, i only have a silly wee petshop in which i have to order stuff in, i have to order excel specially, so am interested if you can perhaps buy it online to try?
obviously introducing a little bit at a time, till i gradually change over, is this a recommended diet, whats the nutritional analysis, is it pellets etc.
sorry for all the questions. i hadnt heard of it
 
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