Gut Stasis, Fibreplex, Protexin Profibre Pellets

Hi Guys, So I think my rabbit may be having early signs of Gut stasis, his poops are small and he doesn’t produce a 100 like he usually did everyday, this happened to him after i noticed he wasn’t eating his pellets. I contacted the vet & she doesn’t want to prescribe a gut mobility drug instead only wants me to give fibreplex, so It’s been a week that i’ve been giving it & i did see an improvement by the end of the week however when it finished his poops went back to being small. I contacted the vet again & she said that rabbits can be on fibreplex for their whole life & i can reduce it to giving it every other day. I was searching online & found protexin does pellets too, so I was wondering if any of ye have tried the protexin profibre pellets? Are they any good? And if you would recommend me give it along with the fibreplex? or would that just be too much probiotics for my rabbit?

The cause of the stasis really needs to be investigated. Your rabbit needs to be examined by a vet that has experience with rabbits.

Apart from any primary cause of stasis, if your rabbit hasn't been eating properly for a week or two, they may develop dental problems as well - their teeth grow continually and need the tough fibrous food to wear them down or they can develop molar spurs, etc. which can then make it more difficult to eat.

Does he eat much hay or grass as well as pellets, as that should provide the bulk of a rabbit's diet, and the fibre to keep the guts moving and wear the teeth down?

Pain relief is also often given when a rabbit isn't eating properly - that alone may improve the appetite, even if it doesn't address the primary cause.

I would suggest you get a proper physical examination done - if necessary, ask for a referral to a rabbit specialist, or ask on here for recommendations for a rabbit-savvy vet in your area. You have done well to spot the problem and do something about it, but I wouldn't be happy with your vet's response. This is potentially quite serious and may be life threatening if left. if your rabbit is doing ok with fibreplex, I would continue with that until you get some answers. It is vital that he continues to eat, has decent poo output, and check that he is maintaining his weight.

Shimmer said:

The cause of the stasis really needs to be investigated. Your rabbit needs to be examined by a vet that has experience with rabbits.

Apart from any primary cause of stasis, if your rabbit hasn't been eating properly for a week or two, they may develop dental problems as well - their teeth grow continually and need the tough fibrous food to wear them down or they can develop molar spurs, etc. which can then make it more difficult to eat.

Does he eat much hay or grass as well as pellets, as that should provide the bulk of a rabbit's diet, and the fibre to keep the guts moving and wear the teeth down?

Pain relief is also often given when a rabbit isn't eating properly - that alone may improve the appetite, even if it doesn't address the primary cause.

I would suggest you get a proper physical examination done - if necessary, ask for a referral to a rabbit specialist, or ask on here for recommendations for a rabbit-savvy vet in your area. You have done well to spot the problem and do something about it, but I wouldn't be happy with your vet's response. This is potentially quite serious and may be life threatening if left. if your rabbit is doing ok with fibreplex, I would continue with that until you get some answers. It is vital that he continues to eat, has decent poo output, and check that he is maintaining his weight.

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I agree with all Shimmer has posted

Some additional information here :

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

https://veterinary-practice.com/article/working-together-on-gut-stasis

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/article-ROWinter10p7.pdf

I've noticed he's not really drinking his water too today, do you think it would still be okay to give him his metacam. I haven't been giving it to him since October because he would suffer from a messy bottom but if he's in pain I'll give him the little that is left. Or would you recommend me to bring him in for an emergency appointment, i'm not sure what to do. Do you think the metacam will be able to break down in his body if there is little poo output? Would it be better for a vet to give it through an injection?

Toasty123 said:

I've noticed he's not really drinking his water too today, do you think it would still be okay to give him his metacam. I haven't been giving it to him since October because he would suffer from a messy bottom but if he's in pain I'll give him the little that is left. Or would you recommend me to bring him in for an emergency appointment, i'm not sure what to do. Do you think the metacam will be able to break down in his body if there is little poo output? Would it be better for a vet to give it through an injection?

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He needs a painkiller, but he needs to see a vet asap, for gut meds too, also to check for a blockage. If he's not drinking that's also serious, and he might need to be given fluids at the vets.

I'd take him in for an emergency appointment ASAP, the quicker you get treatment for stasis the better the outcome normally

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I agree with others who posted. You need a good vet asap. Sending your bunny positive vibes for a full recovery.

Hi guys thanks for everyone who replied, just an update...I took Toasty to a new vet it’s not the one listed on the rabbit welfare website because that one was booked till Wednesday (Shifnal vet). The vet had good knowledge about rabbits & said he should be on a gut motibility drug & painkiller, but maybe not metacam because he hasn’t had a blood test yet for renal function as he does pee frequently. She also went to another room to look in his mouth & came back to me & said he has spurs so on Wed it’s best to get it sorted, so said it’s best to get his gut working properly first. She’s not going to be in tomorrow but booked me in for an appointment for the morning & said to leave Toasty with the vets for a couple of hours & they’ll inject gut motibilty drugs & maybe a painkiller also syringe feed him & give fibreplex ( i already started syringe feeding him properly today and gave fibreplex after the trip to the vets). Now to be completely honest with you guys this is stressing me out, because i don’t know any of the vets there & i don’t know what drugs they’re gunna inject in him, i’m wondering now why she couldn’t give me the gut motibility drug to administer myself at home? I’m not sure what to do guys please help! Do you guys think i should go to the other vet in Shifnal & ask them what they would do? i feel like i’m jumping between so many vets right now , I just don’t want anything bad to happen, it’s so hard to talk to vets directly without booking a consultation first & that means getting my data passed all over again, the vet i saw today even asked me why i had moved from my previous vet to the other vet Toasty saw. Help guys

Toasty123 said:

Hi guys thanks for everyone who replied, just an update...I took Toasty to a new vet it’s not the one listed on the rabbit welfare website because that one was booked till Wednesday (Shifnal vet). The vet had good knowledge about rabbits & said he should be on a gut motibility drug & painkiller, but maybe not metacam because he hasn’t had a blood test yet for renal function as he does pee frequently. She also went to another room to look in his mouth & came back to me & said he has spurs so on Wed it’s best to get it sorted, so said it’s best to get his gut working properly first. She’s not going to be in tomorrow but booked me in for an appointment for the morning & said to leave Toasty with the vets for a couple of hours & they’ll inject gut motibilty drugs & maybe a painkiller also syringe feed him & give fibreplex ( i already started syringe feeding him properly today and gave fibreplex after the trip to the vets). Now to be completely honest with you guys this is stressing me out, because i don’t know any of the vets there & i don’t know what drugs they’re gunna inject in him, i’m wondering now why she couldn’t give me the gut motibility drug to administer myself at home? I’m not sure what to do guys please help! Do you guys think i should go to the other vet in Shifnal & ask them what they would do? i feel like i’m jumping between so many vets right now , I just don’t want anything bad to happen, it’s so hard to talk to vets directly without booking a consultation first & that means getting my data passed all over again, the vet i saw today even asked me why i had moved from my previous vet to the other vet Toasty saw. Help guys

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I don't think its unusual for a bunny to be admitted for a short period of stabilisation & meds . to me this vet sounds much more on the ball. You have the reason for stasis now (there always is one, identifying it not always so easy) & I hope your rabbit will feel much better after the dentist. Its good practice to make sure he is getting enough food & meds before his general anaesthetic & I guess they are just kick starting the process for you. You are totally in your rights to ask what drugs they've used & what the drugs are for. I always get a printed receipt for this reason but if I had concerns I'd just call them. Once he is home & before he is admitted I'd do as much syringe feeding as possible.

I hope he is all better soon

Thanks Joey & boo ^. I appreciate your reply it makes me feel a lot better. I’m a bit puzzled now i syringe fed Toasty oxbow critical care aniseed with elle’s kitchen baby food about 5 hours ago & now noticed diarreah stuck t his bottom do you think this could be because if oxbow, baby food or the carrot i gave earlier on, he had no issues with carrot yesterday, unless today his stomach was feeling extra sensitive, i gave a bit to him because thats the only thing he’ll run around for, other wise he’s hunched in a still position

The vet i talked to yesterday won’t be in today, should i be concerned on what the other vets will do to Toasty while he’s away from me?

Toasty123 said:

The vet i talked to yesterday won’t be in today, should i be concerned on what the other vets will do to Toasty while he’s away from me?

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I think you need to discuss it all in full with the Vet who is going to be caring for Toasty when you take him back for admission and treatment today. They should explain all of the treatment plan, what drugs will be given and why. Usually it is Metoclopramide ( AKA Emiprid/Vomend ), Ranitidine (AKA Zantac) ; sometimes Cisapride (AKA Prepulsid) may be given too. These are all drugs that promote gut motility. Toasty wont eat if he has pain in his mouth, so some sort of analgesic is essential. Usually this is Meloxicam ( AKA Metacam/Loxicom/Meloxaid), but as the Vet has stated that she does not want to use this type of drug without checking Toasty's renal function then until this is done another type of painkiller such as Buprenorphine ( AKA Buprecare/ Vetergesic) may be given. This type of painkiller can cause drowsiness as it is an opiate. But the Vet will be aware of this and that the sedating effect can be exacerbated when the drug is given with Metoclopramide, so the Vet will use the lowest dose possible to try to minimise sedation.

Getting Toasty's GI tract working better is important before having a GA/Dental. Having medication given via injection is better as if his guts are not working well he may not absorb oral meds in order to establish a therapeutic dose. Fluid therapy would also be beneficial. The Vet can fit a cannula into an ear vein to administer hydration fluids.

Do have a re- read of this link about Gut Stasis

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

This image shows molar spurs, so you will see why Toasty has mouth pain



Finally, this link gives details about Rabbit Dentistry

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

Try not to feel intimidated by the Vets you speak with. Most only want to do their best to help and will understand that being asked lots of questions is because you care about Toasty and that you are are very worried. Most Vets wont think they are being 'interrogated' unnecessarily

Jack's-Jane said:

I think you need to discuss it all in full with the Vet who is going to be caring for Toasty when you take him back for admission and treatment today. They should explain all of the treatment plan, what drugs will be given and why. Usually it is Metoclopramide ( AKA Emiprid/Vomend ), Ranitidine (AKA Zantac) ; sometimes Cisapride (AKA Prepulsid) may be given too. These are all drugs that promote gut motility. Toasty wont eat if he has pain in his mouth, so some sort of analgesic is essential. Usually this is Meloxicam ( AKA Metacam/Loxicom/Meloxaid), but as the Vet has stated that she does not want to use this type of drug without checking Toasty's renal function then until this is done another type of painkiller such as Buprenorphine ( AKA Buprecare/ Vetergesic) may be given. This type of painkiller can cause drowsiness as it is an opiate. But the Vet will be aware of this and that the sedating effect can be exacerbated when the drug is given with Metoclopramide, so the Vet will use the lowest dose possible to try to minimise sedation.

Getting Toasty's GI tract working better is important before having a GA/Dental. Having medication given via injection is better as if his guts are not working well he may not absorb oral meds in order to establish a therapeutic dose. Fluid therapy would also be beneficial. The Vet can fit a cannula into an ear vein to administer hydration fluids.

Do have a re- read of this link about Gut Stasis

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv

This image shows molar spurs, so you will see why Toasty has mouth pain

Finally, this link gives details about Rabbit Dentistry

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

Try not to feel intimidated by the Vets you speak with. Most only want to do their best to help and will understand that being asked lots of questions is because you care about Toasty and that you are are very worried. Most Vets wont think they are being 'interrogated' unnecessarily

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Yep this is excellent advice, completely agree and it's so true about asking questions! I ask loads when I'm at the vets, I have to be happy and understand what's going on, and vets should understand this and explain to you their treatment plan, that's just basic. Definitely talk to the vet today and get your questions answered

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Sending lots of vibes for Toasty and also loads of hugs for you. I hope that Toasty gets on well at the vets today.

Thanks everyone here's a little update on Toasty .He did wonderful at the vets today, they kept him from 10:30am to 6.00pm. The veterinary nurse managed to get a lot of critical care into Toasty today, which was lovely to hear. The vet also said he was bright today . They didn't actually give him any gut stimulant because they said he was taking the critical care well and still passing poops. The vet also told me that Toasty was voluntarily going over to his hay and eating and also eating some pellets and drinking water. She didn't recommend giving metacam when i left Toasty in the morning because she was worried about him having nay kidney issues because of his frequent peeing, but then when i collected him she told me that if he's in pain from arthritis then there will be no other choice but to give it, because he'll suffer either way. Now I'm wondering why she couldn't give any other pain relief? She told me it's best to leave him again tomorrow morning so her and another vet can check his spurs out and possibly sedating him to get a better view of his teeth and get an x-ray as well as blood to test for renal function. I was so tired from last night that I forgot to ask the vet if sedating meant anesthetizing or just to make him calm and I can't remember what she said . What do you guys think about the vet sedating Toasty? Also the vet said he has a dislocated toe, the toe nail was pointing upward . I'm sure that's what happened after he had slipped on the wooden floor. .The vet didn't say if there was anything that could be done about that, what do you guys think about that?

Thank you <3 he looks like he is doing so much better now xx

I've no idea about toe dislocation - your vet will have a better idea as s/he will know the exact nature of it. Its hard to imagine putting a joint back in place in the way the might other species & with humans - it seems too brutal for such tiny fragile bones but who knows. Sedating usually means using a tiny amount of general anesthetic . Its great to hear he got on well at the vets & is looking brighter

Toasty123 said:

Thanks everyone here's a little update on Toasty .He did wonderful at the vets today, they kept him from 10:30am to 6.00pm. The veterinary nurse managed to get a lot of critical care into Toasty today, which was lovely to hear. The vet also said he was bright today . They didn't actually give him any gut stimulant because they said he was taking the critical care well and still passing poops. The vet also told me that Toasty was voluntarily going over to his hay and eating and also eating some pellets and drinking water. She didn't recommend giving metacam when i left Toasty in the morning because she was worried about him having nay kidney issues because of his frequent peeing, but then when i collected him she told me that if he's in pain from arthritis then there will be no other choice but to give it, because he'll suffer either way. Now I'm wondering why she couldn't give any other pain relief? She told me it's best to leave him again tomorrow morning so her and another vet can check his spurs out and possibly sedating him to get a better view of his teeth and get an x-ray as well as blood to test for renal function. I was so tired from last night that I forgot to ask the vet if sedating meant anesthetizing or just to make him calm and I can't remember what she said . What do you guys think about the vet sedating Toasty? Also the vet said he has a dislocated toe, the toe nail was pointing upward . I'm sure that's what happened after he had slipped on the wooden floor. .The vet didn't say if there was anything that could be done about that, what do you guys think about that?

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The peeing a lot may be due to the fact that he is drinking more to soothe his sore mouth and to fill himself up as he has not been able to eat much for himself. His renal function may be fine Try not to second guess all the 'what ifs' just now (easier said than done, I know). It sounds as though the Vet is doing a good job. It is necessary for a Rabbit to be sedated/have a full GA in order to carry out a full examination of their mouth............note what the RWAF Chief Veterinary Advisor says about it on here :

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/about-the-rwaf/policy-statements/#conscious

Re Toasty's toe, whilst he is sedated the Vet may take an Xray of his foot to establish exactly what is going on and how best to deal with it. Once again, dont feel you cant ask the Vet any further questions when you drop Toasty off this morning. The Vet will do his/her best to reassure you.

Good luck

Sending lots of vibes for Toasty today.

Sending lots of vibes for Toasty xx

Sounds like the new vets are making good progress and Toasty is stabilising.
Keep asking questions. It may still take a week or two of treatment to get over this, but all the options are being covered, and the toe was spotted as well.