Is PTS the only option?

Hi, just back from the Vet with my 8 year old Rabbit. He’s recently been unable to hop as his hind leg drags, so he doesn’t move around much. The vet says it’s either an injury or arthritis.
Because he can’t move much, he can’t lift up his rear end to urinate, he’s a long haired bunny and the urine just soaks into his fur..so he’s constantly saturated and the vet says he now has urine scald.

I have vet bed in his cage, but it is still dry after he’s been sitting in the same place for a while. So I doubt the urine is even reaching it.

He’s also lost quite a bit of weight, although he still eats and drinks.

He is in pain from his legs (is on metacam) and he has terrible teeth problems, he needs them clipped every month. All this and him sitting in urine all day, the vet said that in her opinion he should be put to sleep as his quality of life is not good.

I’m having trouble with this as his mind is still there, he’s still very affectionate despite not being able to move much. But on the other hand, I can’t give him the constant care the vet says he needs, as I work and away from home 10 hours a day.

Has anyone had a bunny like this and been able to give them a decent quality of life and still work full time? I think the worst thing is him sitting in urine all day, as we’re not there to clean him during the day. I’ve read about putting them in nappies - but they need changed every few hours too..

He has a female bunny friend and they couldn’t be without each other

I’m so sorry you and your bunny are in this situation I haven’t been in this position specifically so I can’t advise, other than that if your vet is not a rabbit savvy vet, it would be worth getting a second opinion from one that is, in case any other treatment can be offered.

Sending lots of vibes for him.

Firstly, I would get the fur clipped or shaved round his back end so that it doesn't stay wet. You can apply various nappy creams to the skin as a barrier to prevent urine scald once it is clean and dry. Urine scald should heal fairly quickly. Someone may be able to advise which creams are suitable. Puppy pads are also quite useful for keeping the area dry if he isn't very mobile, as long as the rabbits don't try to eat them. Think of it as a nappy on the floor. I have used a couple of layers of towel on top of puppy pads and change them daily or as often as needed.

Has your vet considered treating for the EC parasite? If there is no obvious physical injury, it may be worth treating with a 28 day course of Panacur. As he is already on Metacam, that part of the treatment is already covered. The parasite causes neurological damage, typically dragging hind legs, head tilt and urinary incontinence. Panacur kills the parasite and Metacam is an anti-inflammatory, which helps with the damage the parasite causes, and hence the typical symptoms.

Both rabbits will need treating at the same time with Panacur in order to deal with the risk of reinfection. It is a daily, oral wormer. There is a rabbit version in a syringe type tube, or you can use the 10% liquid for cats and dogs. A full clean of the environment is needed on days 21 and 28 of the treatment - basically, anything that may have urine contamination needs bleaching, a veterinary grade disinfectant such as Virkon S (from eg Amazon), or steam cleaning. The parasite is shed in the urine, so this is an important stage to have a clean start at the end of the treatment and break the lifecycle of the parasite.

I would seriously consider this before even thinking about PTS if everything else is manageable still. You can always give some top-up syringe feeds of a Recovery powder to help with weight maintenance.

I hope you find something that helps.

My first rabbit began to loose the use of her hind legs just before she reached 8, it was both her legs. She was treated for EC first of all, and then put on Metacam and had X rays. She had spondylosis and arthritis, has your rabbit had X rays done? She was put on pain relief and we modified her room so she could manage easier. She wasn't long haired but still became wet with urine, I'd check her at least three times a day around work and when needed gently bathe her and dry her off. Her appetite was good and she didn't seem frustrated by not being able to move as well so we kept going. I decided the kindest option would be to put her to sleep one evening when she could barely move and just looked fed up, her bonded partner was running around pushing her and she'd had enough. Some people think I kept her too long, others may say they'd have kept going as she was eating still but I knew she didn't have the quality of life. I was happier that I'd done the X rays though so I knew what options we had, and seen how she was coping for a while. Best of luck with your rabbit, it's a terrible situation to be in xx

ETA: I did also have her shaved by the vet nurses regularly to manage her back end

Have you had a full blood profile done as well? Just to make sure that there is nothing else to consider eg kidney or liver function, or an infection. It could also include a urine sample to check for a urinary tract infection which could be treated with antibiotics.

Thanks for your replies. The vet practice is on the RWAF, but the only Vet on was one we’ve not had before. She didn’t offer anything else except he should be PTS. I didn’t meet her, but my husband said she wasn’t very pleasant. So we will be taking him back to one of the regulars we use on Saturday.

Do rabbits need to be sedated when shaved? He’s a pretty good bunny, but does kick out a bit when held - which really doesn’t help his hind legs when he’s getting cleaned up. They always comment on how good he is when getting his teeth clipped.

How do you know when is the right time to PTS, even if their full personality is still there and eating and drinking? I’d like to see how he goes for a week or so (taking one day at a time) - just to try make him more comfortable, but I also don’t want him to endure more suffering. My last Bunny had a terrible ending to her life and I wished I had her PTS sooner, but I kept thinking she’d get better. I feel he’s not at that stage yet, but there does seem to be a fine line.

Also, is it wise to separate ill bunnies from their companions, to monitor their eating and drinking?

Thanks

Another vote here for a 28 day course of Panacur. Don't give up within the first two weeks as there can be a dramatic improvement suddenly after that as my Mr Diggle has shown

for me I always make a checklist of quality of life. basic rights and things that make your bunny, your bunny. the very basic rights would be moving without pain, eating for themselves, drinking for themselves, and things such as being able to wee and poop without issues.

other things that make your bunny your bunny might be something they do. so my bridge bunny loved strawberries and zooming around, along with throwing cups. eventually he wasn’t able to do that and his enjoyment was so low of everything in life.

I also look at exhausting all options, but also how practical it is, and how likely it is to help.

I had a hamster with uterine infections or cancer, we could have done a course of antibiotics - the percentage of it actually helping was pretty poor. she was also 18 months old, she was at the end of her life anyway. I only saw it as preventing her death and prolonging suffering, she had reached an old age. getting 0.1 ml of antibiotic into a hamster is pretty hard anyway. I didn’t see it as ‘worth it’, which sounds awful, but I didn’t. it wasn’t going to do anything but prolong the inevitable.

for me, if their basic rights of life are beginning to get pretty poor, they cant really enjoy life/have no enjoyment in the things they love, and in general treatment isn’t going to be practical or likely to help, I opt for PTS. I’d personally rather they died before they reached a point of such sickness they were suffering further.

that being said everybody has a different view. some like to exhaust all the options even if it’s just prolonging the inevitable (like they’re at the end of their life anyway), others opt for PTS while they’re healthy if its terminal (like cancer) so they don’t see their pet when they’re so so so unwell.

everybody will have a different view on it and how they would do it.

personally I make a checklist, see what quality they really have, and if its really ‘worth it’. I hate using that term with something that is living and conscious, but I suppose what I mean is if its just something that is going to happen anyways in the near future, and is likely to just try and delay death, then I think its kinder to PTS.

sadly I have no other advice to offer; but I hope I can offer some form of comfort or another point of view on the matter of PTS. there’s no right or wrong way in reality.

sending big hugs xx


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I'd definitely vote for x-rays, that would show any signs of bone injury, spondylosis or arthritis. Your vet doesn't sound like she was interested in doing any kind of diagnostic tests to figure out why he'd go down.

My much adored first rabbit, Bandit, developed spondylosis, diagnosed via x-ray. She was on metacam for a long time and went from slowing down, to wobbly, to finally unable to walk. The last day she was alive she was clearly in distress from being unable to move her back legs at all and that was the point I made the decision. She was dragging herself across the floor asking to be picked up and cuddled. It's a balance- despite the fact he may well be affectionate, eating and drinking, if his level of suffering outweighs it, unfortunately we have to do the best we can for them no matter how much we love them. I carried Bandit to the vets that day and it haunts me slightly that she was happy in my arms and looking around alertly, but there was nothing more I could do for her.

If he doesn't appear to be in immediate distress from this, by all means do tests. I have heard of rabbits making miraculous recoveries after steroid injections. The right painkillers might also make him pick up (something like gabapentin or tramadol may be more effective).

I've had three animals sent to the great beyond and there is rarely a perfect time. Every time you wonder whether you did it too early or too late. All you can do is the best you can in the moment.

Hi, my bunny Julie could not hop for a few years but still manage to have have a good quality life her last few years. Granted though I was not working and someone was with her all the time but she was extremely affectionate and was a foodie. She loved to eat and would play with toys and lick us to be petted.She layed on the couch while we watched TV or worked on the computer. We kept her pain free with metacam and tramadol alternating. She wasn't in a cage. We piled blankets on the floor then lined the blankets with large puppy pads then put a vet bed on top. I trimmed her fur as short as possible in the back. Keeping her as dry as possible was key. The urine ran right through the vet bed and soaked into the puppy pads. The vet bed never felt wet. I had more than one vet bed and washed them every few days. If her fur got wet I would spray her with cooled water from a spray bottle and pat her dry and use a little all natural cornstarch baby powder to help keep the fur dry and it removed most of the yellow staining. She was white. The other thing is constant stimulation. I messaged her and turned her every few hours and provided lots of chew toys and toys that she could play with. Also her vet had suggested adding alpha hay which helped with her weight and her vet had me fed her oats made with water and pure pumpkin added, She told us pure pumpkin was nourishing and good for her. She licked it off a spoon.
Here is a link to a pic to one of my threads with pics of her.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?429258-Hi-RU-Julie-here-Update-post-24
Here are some more pics and you can see some of her toys and clear shots of how we set up her hay.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?420579-Julie-update
We did do supplemental critical care feedings when her weight went down. The trick is to find one that the rabbit likes or add baby food to it.

Here is another link a summary of her story and another bunny on there and a link from someone and her disabled bunnies at the time.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...-bunnies-Come-share-your-stories-and-pictures

Separating bonded rabbits has benefits if you really need to monitor input / output closely, or after a major operation, for example. Otherwise, they are better off together and usually gain a lot of support from each other, such as mutual grooming, keeping eyes and ears clean that the poorly one can't reach, warmth from sitting together, etc - so I would not separate them unless you absolutely have to, such as if there is a risk of injury.

As for quality of life - I find that animals tell you when they have had enough. While you and bunny are coping and there are other options to explore, it is probably not the right time. Many disabled rabbits have a good quality of life. It really doesn't seem to bother them that, for example, they can't run around. Having a bunny friend to support them helps a lot as well, especially if they have no human company for long periods of time.

I compare how they are week by week. If they are no worse than last week / month and you were both coping, then just keep doing what you are doing and deal with blips as they happen. You will get a lot of useful advice on here for dealing with different issues as they arise.

Thanks so much everyone. There is certainly a lot more options to look out for. He went a bit downhill last night, refused to drink but did eat a small bit of cucumber. He was the same today, had a nibble of spinach and cucumber - I’m just giving him things that he knowingly eats along with softened pellets. He’s great with the syringe, so that’s a relief!

We have another vet appointment, so he’ll get shaved and I’ll ask about X-ray and bloods too.

Thanks again!

Sending vibes.
My bunny Flop was 7 when he started to show signs of arthritis in his back legs. He was on loxicom for pain relief for a few months but one morning my husband had been out to give them breakfast and said he couldn’t move. He was very thirsty when I went out to him as he hadn’t been able to get to the water bowl and had a huge drink when I offered it to him. His fur wasn’t wet from urine. I brought him inside and he was very bright and alert in himself. I got him straight to the vets that morning and made the decision to have him put to sleep. This was in a January and the vet said that had it been summer he would have insisted that he was put to sleep. This made me feel terrible as I thought, istge vet suggesting that he shouldn’t be put to sleep. It was an incredibly hard decision as he was so bright within himself. He was a lion head cross and kept himself very clean and I felt that he wouldn’t like being soiled on vet bed or similar. There was no way he and his partner could live indoors at that time and I was working so out of the house for 9 hours a day. I remember whilst the vet had gone to prepare things sitting in the floor of the consultation room with him and willing him to move.
It was a horrible decision to make, but 7 or so years on, I don’t regret it and think it was the right decision for him. Sending lots of vibes and hugs for you. You’ll make the right decision for him, whatever it is x

Don't have regrets, either way. Investigate your options. Is an animal wheel cart an option? See how much care your particular bunny requires and what time you can dedicate. There is no way of knowing if your bunny will deteriorate quickly or slowly.

Sadly we had to put our bun to sleep. He’d gone downhill rapidly these last few days - stopped eating and drinking and he just seemed like he’d already gone. Although I absolutely hate making the choice whether a pet lives or dies, he had no life in him at all, so we had to help him on his way. Even his companion had distanced herself, she wasn’t going near him..it’s like she already knew.

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions - in this case we left it too late to save him

So sorry. You made the right decision for him. RIP bunny.

I'm so sorry to hear that you had to let your bunny go, its never an easy decision, but it sounds like he was letting you know. Big hug for you, and gentle nose rubs for your remaining bunny x

Ryiah said:

Sadly we had to put our bun to sleep. He’d gone downhill rapidly these last few days - stopped eating and drinking and he just seemed like he’d already gone. Although I absolutely hate making the choice whether a pet lives or dies, he had no life in him at all, so we had to help him on his way. Even his companion had distanced herself, she wasn’t going near him..it’s like she already knew.

Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions - in this case we left it too late to save him

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I am very sorry

I am very sorry