Young rabbits with spurs :(

Both my girls have spurs and are only 5 1/2 months old. Harlequins are much worse then Beauty’s.

They eat 7g of pellets a hand full of hurbs and 5g of dried mixed forage along with lots of ( five diffrent types) hay .

Seens they have got them so young does this indicate they will be more prone to them in the future?

We’re at the vets very regularly and I always have teeth checked. Last time was about three weeks ago and nothing was said then so it seems quiet sudden that Harlequin has really bad spurs now.

Any advice or infomation would be much appreciated.

unfortunately it can mean that they are, yes. its not certain however.

their diet sounds good so either its caused via an outside source (such as stress) or unfortunately, it is genetic. in which that case, theres nothing you can really do.

due to us humans breeding for "cute" rabbits many rabbits are being bred with rounder and rounder heads. if I'm not mistaken you own netherland dwarfs which are a prime example of that. most rabbits come from the european wild rabbit, they're decedents of it. if you compare a netherland dwarf and a wild rabbit, you'll see that their heads are incredibly round. this leaves not enough room for their teeth, often resulting in malocclusion. when its genetic, theres not a lot you can do.

many breeds with these rounder heads - netherland dwarfs, lops, lion heads, mini breeds - are more prone to dental issues than others. that being said, ALL rabbits can get dental disease and there are some of these more 'likely' breeds that will never have issues. its just a case of luck imho.

you can compare a netherland dwarf head and a european rabbit, the european rabbit has a triangle head, the netherland dwarf head is almost round. it doesn't leave the place for their teeth often resulting in issues.

unfortunately my late Snoopy was a prime example of that. his head was very round and ultimately, he paid the price, and that was his life. I was young and unaware at the time, so I made the decision to let him go. I think I may have even done it with my knowledge now in all honesty.

its a coin flip, it might be some sort of outside source or yes, its genetic. with both of them having it, I'd be inclined to say genetic but the could share the same outside issue, such as stress. its impossible.

the next step would probably be to get x-rays of the skull if it keeps happening, which would need to be done under a GA, to figure out what is truly happening. a lot of the time with malocclusion its beneath the service. the teeth or routes may be growing into the jaw, causing pain, thus not eating causing spurs.

hugs xx

Thank you BC. Both girls are neatherland crosses and being a byb I can emagen they share some of the same genetics so it may be that. Harlequin has been a little stressed with bonding lately but that’s only been the last week and most of the time she’s eaten normally.

I see what you mean by the European rabbits head shape. I just looked up some pictures on google.

Pip had spurs at about 6 months and I was worried about her getting them again. She has had no problems since but we did stop feeding her veg. We found she was filling up on veg and not eating enough hay to wear her teeth down.

I'm sorry both of yours have spurs :-(

dental problems

Lisa1981 said:

Both my girls have spurs and are only 5 1/2 months old. Harlequins are much worse then Beauty’s.

They eat 7g of pellets a hand full of hurbs and 5g of dried mixed forage along with lots of ( five diffrent types) hay .

Seens they have got them so young does this indicate they will be more prone to them in the future?

We’re at the vets very regularly and I always have teeth checked. Last time was about three weeks ago and nothing was said then so it seems quiet sudden that Harlequin has really bad spurs now.

Any advice or infomation would be much appreciated.

Click to expand...

dear lisa1981,-a facial radiograph would indicate,most problematic areas,-however-[for dental] to be properly examined,the bun must be asleep,then the repair [if necessary]-can start.--in the old days a farmer would trim with crude tools causing more dental/health concerns..--I am glad there are exotic dvm,s educated to give this problem a healthy outcome..here is a website which is superior in rabbit care/knowledge http://www.medirabbit.com please donot be offended as your diet for them sounds very good,but your concern is warranted,--sincerely james waller from the other kent,wa.st.usa:wave:

Mervinius said:

Pip had spurs at about 6 months and I was worried about her getting them again. She has had no problems since but we did stop feeding her veg. We found she was filling up on veg and not eating enough hay to wear her teeth down.

I'm sorry both of yours have spurs :-(

Click to expand...

The girls don’t get veg as they can’t tollerate 99.9% of it but I am wondering about the herbs in the morning as it’s a handful each as is each of the quintitys above. I will keep every one updated.

jewaller said:

dear lisa1981,-a facial radiograph would indicate,most problematic areas,-however-[for dental] to be properly examined,the bun must be asleep,then the repair [if necessary]-can start.--in the old days a farmer would trim with crude tools causing more dental/health concerns..--I am glad there are exotic dvm,s educated to give this problem a healthy outcome..here is a website which is superior in rabbit care/knowledge http://www.medirabbit.com please donot be offended as your diet for them sounds very good,but your concern is warranted,--sincerely james waller from the other kent,wa.st.usa:wave:

Click to expand...

Thank you James.

Some additional info about Rabbit Dental issues here :

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/dental-problems/

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

https://www.ufaw.org.uk/rabbits/netherland-dwarf-dental-malocclusion

https://www.vetstream.com/treat/lapis/freeform/dental-malocclusion-overgrowth

Regarding diet, you should be aiming for them to eat foods, which will wear the teeth down. These will be foods with high fibre, which are abrasive and will be eaten in a side to side motion. Pellets will be eaten in an up and down motion and so do not wear the teeth down effectively.

So it's a case of avoiding foods, which are not high fibre as the rabbits will fill up on these and leave less room for the more beneficial fibrous foods. If I were you I would discuss with your vet whether it would be advantageous to reduce or eventually eliminate the pellets to try to encourage more hay consumption.

I was pleased to see on your other thread this morning that Harlequin is feeling more comfortable.

Thank you JacksJane I have skimmed through them for now and will read more in depth a bit later.

Omi- I’m wondering if when they have their teeth done at the vets that if we try a just hay diet if that might help but will discuss this with the vet later although they do already eat a lot of hay.

We have an apointment for 10:30 this morning

Good luck at the vets later :thumb:

The girls spurs arnt as bad as the ooh vets vets had me thinking although Harlequins are worse then Beauty’s. There’s no abrasions or damage to the inside of the mouth and the vet wants me to get them eating well again before reassessing and seeing if they they need buring now. I also asked about diet and was advised to try a hay only diet a) to see if it helps with the teeth and b) to see if it can help reduce the amount of stasis episodes.

We were also given the dog version of the meticam which is the first time we have been given this type usherly it’s the cat one. We also have ranitidine to be given two hours befor the emeprid.

Lisa1981 said:

The girls spurs arnt as bad as the ooh vets vets had me thinking although Harlequins are worse then Beauty’s. There’s no abrasions or damage to the inside of the mouth and the vet wants me to get them eating well again before reassessing and seeing if they they need buring now. I also asked about diet and was advised to try a hay only diet a) to see if it helps with the teeth and b) to see if it can help reduce the amount of stasis episodes.

We were also given the dog version of the meticam which is the first time we have been given this type usherly it’s the cat one. We also have ranitidine to be given two hours befor the emeprid.

Click to expand...

Sounds good

We always have the dog one here for the buns

My vet-friend said her practice had noticed a trend in rabbits who were fed almost entirely hay to only be seen for annual vaccinations, and to be much better under anaesthetic for anything else (non-diet-related problems like broken bones etc.), as well as surviving much longer :thumb: Good luck and i hope it works out for you! I've got two bunnies with 'rubbish' teeth (Aboleth's are worst) who've ::touches wood:: never had a dental yet and we've got to 6 years They're such good hay eaters, I hope yours get better too

Sorry to hear you keep having such bad luck with your buns! My boy doesn't eat enough hay which contributes to his problems (although it's not the main cause). I know you've started giving Fibafirst, that might help, plus an increase in hay. As others have said their diet doesn't sound bad, I hope it's something you can get under control as insurance doesn't tend to cover dentals as I know to my expense! On the plus side, Lilac had one dental not long after I got her, I adjusted her diet afterwards and she's been fine ever since, so sometimes it's not necessarily an indicator of life long problems.

Graciee said:

Sounds good

We always have the dog one here for the buns

Click to expand...

Is there any difference between the cat and dog one. I queried the dose as it seemed low and that’s when I was told it was the dog one. I’ll see how it goes.

keletkezes said:

My vet-friend said her practice had noticed a trend in rabbits who were fed almost entirely hay to only be seen for annual vaccinations, and to be much better under anaesthetic for anything else (non-diet-related problems like broken bones etc.), as well as surviving much longer :thumb: Good luck and i hope it works out for you! I've got two bunnies with 'rubbish' teeth (Aboleth's are worst) who've ::touches wood:: never had a dental yet and we've got to 6 years They're such good hay eaters, I hope yours get better too

Click to expand...

Thank you.

I’m going to get them trough this slow down with things they love like hurbs and the dried forrage and then I’ll go just hay. If they do well with it I’ll maybe now and again add tiny amounts of dried forrage just to let them have some natural behaviour and change it up a bit. We currently have 5 types of hay which even one of them affects the girls if given more then half a hand full.

Thank you for the infomation about a virtually hay only diet it makes me feel it’s the right thing to do.

I hope Aboleth and friends stay dental treatment free for you.

I will let every one know how we get on

Orenoko- they arnt great hay eaters but Hopfully that will change and we will try more variants to try and stop the bordom. They love their fiber first so I may stick with that as it’s only one stick a day and includes hay and they usherly get through it in minuets any way. Iv looked into the costs of dentals and if they have to be regular it would have me living on beans but I’d do any thing for my girls.

I’m glad lilac is fine now after the adjustment to her food. I hope it stays that way for you.

Lisa1981 said:

Is there any difference between the cat and dog one. I queried the dose as it seemed low and that’s when I was told it was the dog one. I’ll see how it goes.

Click to expand...

They're the same, the only difference is the strength of the active ingredient; the dog version has a higher concentration (hence the lower dose). We were always given the dog version for the rabbits as it means less meds to try and get inside them. :lol::lol:

If they aren't great hay eaters, it could be that you just need to encourage them to eat the right things to help wear the teeth down. It might not solve the problem completely if it's a genetic problem, meaning the teeth don't line up and wear down properly but it might help to extend the time between dentals.

I would try lots of different hays; finding one that they'll eat lots of is more important than the type of hay really (timothy hay, for example, is often said to be one of the best for wearing down the teeth but, if your bunnies won't eat it, then it's not so much help iyswim). Grass is just as good for wearing down the teeth and they might be more keen on it (it's quite rich in Spring so introduce very slowly if they're not used to it).

Lisa1981 said:

Thank you JacksJane I have skimmed through them for now and will read more in depth a bit later.

Omi- I’m wondering if when they have their teeth done at the vets that if we try a just hay diet if that might help but will discuss this with the vet later although they do already eat a lot of hay.

We have an apointment for 10:30 this morning

Click to expand...

the issue with just a hay diet is that you'll then need to be feeding them lots of different hays, forage and probably fresh produce. pellets provide an important part of a rabbits diet as they contain vitamins that they won't just get from hay. its a convenient way, otherwise you'll have to micro manage what vitamins they are getting and if its too much or too little, as both are dangerous. wild rabbits don't need pellet due to the fact that they have such a varied diet and are outside, they're eating all sorts of different plants etc and getting the vit D on their skin.

many people who DO feed a hay only diet tend to feed multiple hays all at once, and have plenty of forage available and fed fresh produce to make up for the lack of pellet. pellet provides a lot of vitamins etc, almost like a multi vitamin I guess (altho not quite).

I considered it with Snoopy but the fact is is that I was short on money so I couldn't afford it, but I also worried about the micromanagement of making sure they got the right amount of vitamins etc, I didn't feel skilled enough to take that on at the time.

there are a few people on here that feed pellet free, so you could put a post up and hopefully they'll advise. I would mention names but I am not too sure and don't wanna look like an idiot :lol:

binkyCodie said:

the issue with just a hay diet is that you'll then need to be feeding them lots of different hays, forage and probably fresh produce. pellets provide an important part of a rabbits diet as they contain vitamins that they won't just get from hay. its a convenient way, otherwise you'll have to micro manage what vitamins they are getting and if its too much or too little, as both are dangerous. wild rabbits don't need pellet due to the fact that they have such a varied diet and are outside, they're eating all sorts of different plants etc and getting the vit D on their skin.

many people who DO feed a hay only diet tend to feed multiple hays all at once, and have plenty of forage available and fed fresh produce to make up for the lack of pellet. pellet provides a lot of vitamins etc, almost like a multi vitamin I guess (altho not quite).

I considered it with Snoopy but the fact is is that I was short on money so I couldn't afford it, but I also worried about the micromanagement of making sure they got the right amount of vitamins etc, I didn't feel skilled enough to take that on at the time.

there are a few people on here that feed pellet free, so you could put a post up and hopefully they'll advise. I would mention names but I am not too sure and don't wanna look like an idiot [emoji38]

Click to expand...

Idk if I agree or disagree really [emoji38]

My vet has said feeding just hay is fine.

However, if you was just to feed hay, but then you give Idk.. 10 pellets? 5 pellets? A day to each rabbit..? They aren't exactly going to fill up on pellets.. But would get the vitamins if that's a concern

Did you see a decent rabbit vet?
Many non-rabbit vets misdiagnose spurs on rabbits
It's happened many times when I've seen the out of hours vets for a rabbit that's stopped eating. They look for a cause and always find spurs. The vets who know rabbits always take a look and say they're fine.