Bunny coughing after drinking water

zajci · Feb 23, 2019

Hey!

Let me tell you about our bunny called Zajči ( Basically hes called bunny Bunny, my 8 year old sister really lacked imagination back then ). He's quite old at 9,5 years. Anyway, not long ago one evening he had mayor breathing problems ( gasping for air, lifting his head high, climbing on top of his cage, breathing trough his mouth, coughing etc ) and it looked like we were going to lose him but he survived the night and we took him to the vet first thing in the morning. They told us he's having heart problems ( lungs being filled with water squeezing his heart ) probably from age&illness and we can either try and keep him alive with heart medicine or have him put down. We couldn't say goodbye as long as there was a chance to keep him alive ( without him being in pain ) and we've been giving him his heart medicine for 20 days now ( The vets were kind of surprised when we came back for a refill of the medicine). We're feeding him his "portion of a pill" with a syringe and some "juice" ( Not really juice but I don't know the English word, basically it's baby food that tastes like apples and carrots, juice with pulp I guess ). And he has no problem eating that or solid food, but water for some reason is an issue for him the past day and a half. He drinks a bit but then starts coughing and sneezing and has a hard time breathing. We did just buy a new drinking bottle for him, so we thought it might be that, but he has same problems when drinking out of a cup or when I tried giving him water with an syringe. Any ideas how to help him drink? Or is it another sign that his time is fast approaching?

Thanks for any&all advice!

Jack's-Jane · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
Hey!

Let me tell you about our bunny called Zajči ( Basically hes called bunny Bunny, my 8 year old sister really lacked imagination back then ). He's quite old at 9,5 years. Anyway, not long ago one evening he had mayor breathing problems ( gasping for air, lifting his head high, climbing on top of his cage, breathing trough his mouth, coughing etc ) and it looked like we were going to lose him but he survived the night and we took him to the vet first thing in the morning. They told us he's having heart problems ( lungs being filled with water squeezing his heart ) probably from age&illness and we can either try and keep him alive with heart medicine or have him put down. We couldn't say goodbye as long as there was a chance to keep him alive ( without him being in pain ) and we've been giving him his heart medicine for 20 days now ( The vets were kind of surprised when we came back for a refill of the medicine). We're feeding him his "portion of a pill" with a syringe and some "juice" ( Not really juice but I don't know the English word, basically it's baby food that tastes like apples and carrots, juice with pulp I guess ). And he has no problem eating that or solid food, but water for some reason is an issue for him the past day and a half. He drinks a bit but then starts coughing and sneezing and has a hard time breathing. We did just buy a new drinking bottle for him, so we thought it might be that, but he has same problems when drinking out of a cup or when I tried giving him water with an syringe. Any ideas how to help him drink? Or is it another sign that his time is fast approaching?

Thanks for any&all advice!

Hello

I am sorry to hear of your Bunny's recently diagnosed heart problems. With regards to him seeming to have choking episodes when drinking, this can occur with some Rabbits who have heart disease.

How high is his water bottle ? What I mean is does he need to raise his head to drink from it ? This can actually help and it can also be better to use a sipper bottle to prevent Bunny from gulping down a lot of water in one go.

When was the last time the Vet actually examined him and listened to his heart and lungs ? You dont mention what his 'heart meds' actually are. Do you know if a diuretic is included ? Something such as Furosamide (Frusemide)

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Furosamide.htm

zajci · Feb 23, 2019

Jack's-Jane said:
Hello

I am sorry to hear of your Bunny's recently diagnosed heart problems. With regards to him seeming to have choking episodes when drinking, this can occur with some Rabbits who have heart disease.

How high is his water bottle ? What I mean is does he need to raise his head to drink from it ? This can actually help and it can also be better to use a sipper bottle to prevent Bunny from gulping down a lot of water in one go.

When was the last time the Vet actually examined him and listened to his heart and lungs ? You dont mention what his 'heart meds' actually are. Do you know if a diuretic is included ? Something such as Furosamide (Frusemide)

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Furosamide.htm

His water battle is not that high, but he had same problems when I once tried to give him his bottle by hand ( I was just replacing the water ) and I held it higher than he has it normally. Sipper? What is that? We use a variant of this http://www.barrowbunnies.com/uploads/3/7/1/1/37117413/7054755_orig.jpg .

The last time the vet fully examined was 20 days ago, when we took him there after this "attack". We spent the next two days at the vet ( he got shots 2x a day, and he had his heart listened to each time, well three times, they could hear it the first ) and they said it got better in those two days. I'm not sure what the medicine is called, they just give us 3 tablets that we then crush 1by1 into 10 equal parts and give him 1/10 at a time. By memory I think it's called Edemid ( on our bill it just says medicine smh), and when I googled that it did said furosemid next to it.

MightyMax · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
Hey!

Let me tell you about our bunny called Zajči ( Basically hes called bunny Bunny, my 8 year old sister really lacked imagination back then ). He's quite old at 9,5 years. Anyway, not long ago one evening he had mayor breathing problems ( gasping for air, lifting his head high, climbing on top of his cage, breathing trough his mouth, coughing etc ) and it looked like we were going to lose him but he survived the night and we took him to the vet first thing in the morning. They told us he's having heart problems ( lungs being filled with water squeezing his heart ) probably from age&illness and we can either try and keep him alive with heart medicine or have him put down. We couldn't say goodbye as long as there was a chance to keep him alive ( without him being in pain ) and we've been giving him his heart medicine for 20 days now ( The vets were kind of surprised when we came back for a refill of the medicine). We're feeding him his "portion of a pill" with a syringe and some "juice" ( Not really juice but I don't know the English word, basically it's baby food that tastes like apples and carrots, juice with pulp I guess ). And he has no problem eating that or solid food, but water for some reason is an issue for him the past day and a half. He drinks a bit but then starts coughing and sneezing and has a hard time breathing. We did just buy a new drinking bottle for him, so we thought it might be that, but he has same problems when drinking out of a cup or when I tried giving him water with an syringe. Any ideas how to help him drink? Or is it another sign that his time is fast approaching?

Thanks for any&all advice!

Hi there and welcome to the Forum

Zajči sounds like a lovely rabbit and you're looking after him so well.

It can often happen with heart issues that drinking is a bit difficult. It can flood and block the windpipe, even temporarily.
A bottle might help, but you say he still has problems even with that? Have you tried not keeping the drinking bottle too high for him so's not to overload his mouth with water when he drinks? Does it happen every time he drinks?

If you're feeding wet food - food with lots of moisture in it, he's less likely to want to drink water and that might help alleviate the coughing. You could mention this to your vet, as it could also be a collapsed trachea which can be a problem associated with heart disease. Heart failure itself can also cause coughing.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/congestive.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/Cong_heart_en.pdf

Thinking of you and your little one

zajci · Feb 23, 2019

MightyMax said:
Hi there and welcome to the Forum

Zajči sounds like a lovely rabbit and you're looking after him so well.

It can often happen with heart issues that drinking is a bit difficult. It can flood and block the windpipe, even temporarily.
A bottle might help, but you say he still has problems even with that? Have you tried not keeping the drinking bottle too high for him so's not to overload his mouth with water when he drinks? Does it happen every time he drinks?

If you're feeding wet food - food with lots of moisture in it, he's less likely to want to drink water and that might help alleviate the coughing. You could mention this to your vet, as it could also be a collapsed trachea which can be a problem associated with heart disease. Heart failure itself can also cause coughing.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/congestive.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/Cong_heart_en.pdf

Thinking of you and your little one

Thank you, I (we) try our best.

We use something like this ( http://www.barrowbunnies.com/uploads/3/7/1/1/37117413/7054755_orig.jpg ) and we had it pretty low so he could comfortably drink. I just raised it a bit since the poster earlier suggested it might help, and judging from the first try it might have ( keeping fingers crossed).

It happens a bit more than half the time we see him drink. And like I've described in my earlier post in all the methods we tried. Tho he doesn't drink that much lately, we're just not sure if it's because the gets water elsewhere or if he's kind of afraid because he often coughs after.

As for wet food he get's a small slice of apple a day after his second round of medicine to let him know he was good for eating it,he gets his medicine twice a day with about 5ml of carrot&apple juice/babyfood, he also gets a carrot every other day. So he gets some water in that way. We dare not feed him any other vegetables not grown by us (which we don't atm as it's winter here) as he had digestive problems with what we bought in the store even after washing it.

Thanks for your good thoughts!

Jack's-Jane · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
Thank you, I (we) try our best.

We use something like this ( http://www.barrowbunnies.com/uploads/3/7/1/1/37117413/7054755_orig.jpg ) and we had it pretty low so he could comfortably drink. I just raised it a bit since the poster earlier suggested it might help, and judging from the first try it might have ( keeping fingers crossed).

It happens a bit more than half the time we see him drink. And like I've described in my earlier post in all the methods we tried. Tho he doesn't drink that much lately, we're just not sure if it's because the gets water elsewhere or if he's kind of afraid because he often coughs after.

As for wet food he get's a small slice of apple a day after his second round of medicine to let him know he was good for eating it,he gets his medicine twice a day with about 5ml of carrot&apple juice/babyfood, he also gets a carrot every other day. So he gets some water in that way. We dare not feed him any other vegetables not grown by us (which we don't atm as it's winter here) as he had digestive problems with what we bought in the store even after washing it.

Thanks for your good thoughts!

I hope that my suggestion of raising the level of the water bottle will continue to help prevent the 'coughing' episodes.

I would suggest that you consider getting Bunny re-examined by the Vet in the next few days. A lot can change in 20 days with regards to heart disease and it may be that the doses of Bunny's meds needs altering.

MightyMax · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
His water battle is not that high, but he had same problems when I once tried to give him his bottle by hand ( I was just replacing the water ) and I held it higher than he has it normally. Sipper? What is that? We use a variant of this http://www.barrowbunnies.com/uploads/3/7/1/1/37117413/7054755_orig.jpg .

The last time the vet fully examined was 20 days ago, when we took him there after this "attack". We spent the next two days at the vet ( he got shots 2x a day, and he had his heart listened to each time, well three times, they could hear it the first ) and they said it got better in those two days. I'm not sure what the medicine is called, they just give us 3 tablets that we then crush 1by1 into 10 equal parts and give him 1/10 at a time. By memory I think it's called Edemid ( on our bill it just says medicine smh), and when I googled that it did said furosemid next to it.

Yes furosemide is a regular meds for heart problems. Here we also use something called Fortekor, which is an ACE inhibitor

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-462288

I hope you can get a check up to see what's going on with your rabbit, and mention the coughing episodes to him.

Jack's-Jane · Feb 23, 2019

To add to my previous reply you may find these links useful, apologies if they have already been posted :

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/CongestiveHeartFailureRabbit.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Cardio_main.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Cardiology/Failure/congestive.htm

MightyMax · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
Thank you, I (we) try our best.

We use something like this ( http://www.barrowbunnies.com/uploads/3/7/1/1/37117413/7054755_orig.jpg ) and we had it pretty low so he could comfortably drink. I just raised it a bit since the poster earlier suggested it might help, and judging from the first try it might have ( keeping fingers crossed).

It happens a bit more than half the time we see him drink. And like I've described in my earlier post in all the methods we tried. Tho he doesn't drink that much lately, we're just not sure if it's because the gets water elsewhere or if he's kind of afraid because he often coughs after.

As for wet food he get's a small slice of apple a day after his second round of medicine to let him know he was good for eating it,he gets his medicine twice a day with about 5ml of carrot&apple juice/babyfood, he also gets a carrot every other day. So he gets some water in that way. We dare not feed him any other vegetables not grown by us (which we don't atm as it's winter here) as he had digestive problems with what we bought in the store even after washing it.

Thanks for your good thoughts!

Aww that's OK

That bottle looks fine to me, and I would adjust it to the height you feel suitable for your rabbit to make him as comfortable as possible.

Yes rabbits that get a reasonable amount of wet food will not drink so much water, and that's probably a good thing given his condition.

I've already given you the two Medirabbit links in my first post here, so hopefully that will give you some idea of the condition. However, your rabbit hasn't got the diagnosis, and he's blissfully unaware of what's going on. And with your excellent care hopefully he can continue in his happy life with you

zajci · Feb 23, 2019

Jack's-Jane said:
I hope that my suggestion of raising the level of the water bottle will continue to help prevent the 'coughing' episodes.

I would suggest that you consider getting Bunny re-examined by the Vet in the next few days. A lot can change in 20 days with regards to heart disease and it may be that the doses of Bunny's meds needs altering.

After the first refill of the medicine we were suppose to go down and only give him 1/12 of the tablet at a time, but when we got to the vet we said we were not comfortable at lowering the dose, as we thought he wasn't getting the whole 1/10 dose as is ( some of the tablet poweder was left on the board we cracked it on, every-time we divided the tablet some of it stayed on the tray we were doing that on and as hard as we tried we some "juice" always got spilled sometimes just a bit, sometimes especially at the start quite a bit ). So the vet said that's okay and we continued giving him the 1/10. They also said there's no need to bring him back if there isn't a new issue, which this coughing might be if it continues another day or so.

MightyMax said:
Aww that's OK

That bottle looks fine to me, and I would adjust it to the height you feel suitable for your rabbit to make him as comfortable as possible.

Yes rabbits that get a reasonable amount of wet food will not drink so much water, and that's probably a good thing given his condition.

I've already given you the two Medirabbit links in my first post here, so hopefully that will give you some idea of the condition. However, your rabbit hasn't got the diagnosis, and he's blissfully unaware of what's going on. And with your excellent care hopefully he can continue in his happy life with you

Thank you! I'll look them up! The vets weren't that optimistic he'd make it till now, so so far we're beating expectations, tho they said at best we have a month or two left. Keeping fingers crossed we can beat those expectations too

MightyMax · Feb 23, 2019

zajci said:
After the first refill of the medicine we were suppose to go down and only give him 1/12 of the tablet at a time, but when we got to the vet we said we were not comfortable at lowering the dose, as we thought he wasn't getting the whole 1/10 dose as is ( some of the tablet poweder was left on the board we cracked it on, every-time we divided the tablet some of it stayed on the tray we were doing that on and as hard as we tried we some "juice" always got spilled sometimes just a bit, sometimes especially at the start quite a bit ). So the vet said that's okay and we continued giving him the 1/10. They also said there's no need to bring him back if there isn't a new issue, which this coughing might be if it continues another day or so.

Thank you! I'll look them up! The vets weren't that optimistic he'd make it till now, so so far we're beating expectations, tho they said at best we have a month or two left. Keeping fingers crossed we can beat those expectations too

He's done really well at beating the odds!

I totally understand about cutting tablets into tiny bits and some powder being left on the board.
It's so difficult to do!

Jack's-Jane · Feb 24, 2019

zajci said:
After the first refill of the medicine we were suppose to go down and only give him 1/12 of the tablet at a time, but when we got to the vet we said we were not comfortable at lowering the dose, as we thought he wasn't getting the whole 1/10 dose as is ( some of the tablet poweder was left on the board we cracked it on, every-time we divided the tablet some of it stayed on the tray we were doing that on and as hard as we tried we some "juice" always got spilled sometimes just a bit, sometimes especially at the start quite a bit ). So the vet said that's okay and we continued giving him the 1/10. They also said there's no need to bring him back if there isn't a new issue, which this coughing might be if it continues another day or so.

If the only drug being given is a diuretic then it may be beneficial for the Vet to consider adding additional medications to assist the heart function. Of course what these medications may be would depend on the specific heart condition your Rabbit has, sometimes ascertaining that information requires input from a Specialist (Cardiologist) I realise that it may not always be an option to go down that route.

I have access to additional information about Rabbit Cardiac disease and various treatment options, but I cannot post the papers on a public Forum. I could email them to you if it would be helpful, you could print off the information to show to your Vet. It all comes from a highly respected Veterinary Educational Source.

MightyMax · Feb 24, 2019

How's he doing today? :wave:

zajci · Feb 24, 2019

Jack's-Jane said:
If the only drug being given is a diuretic then it may be beneficial for the Vet to consider adding additional medications to assist the heart function. Of course what these medications may be would depend on the specific heart condition your Rabbit has, sometimes ascertaining that information requires input from a Specialist (Cardiologist) I realise that it may not always be an option to go down that route.

I have access to additional information about Rabbit Cardiac disease and various treatment options, but I cannot post the papers on a public Forum. I could email them to you if it would be helpful, you could print off the information to show to your Vet. It all comes from a highly respected Veterinary Educational Source.

Not sure if it would be helpful but if things go to worse again I'll let you know to send it!

MightyMax said:
How's he doing today? :wave:

Overall he seems to be well. At least what we consider well these days. He still has problems drinking, even had problems eating his apple slice earlier. But I've given him water twice today by syringe, no more than 2ml at a time and he had no problems drinking that as I gave it to him really slowly. He still has no problems eating the medicine or solid food thankfully

MightyMax · Feb 25, 2019

zajci said:
Not sure if it would be helpful but if things go to worse again I'll let you know to send it!

Overall he seems to be well. At least what we consider well these days. He still has problems drinking, even had problems eating his apple slice earlier. But I've given him water twice today by syringe, no more than 2ml at a time and he had no problems drinking that as I gave it to him really slowly. He still has no problems eating the medicine or solid food thankfully

I'm glad he's still taking his medicine!

You are doing a fab job at nursing him

zajci · Feb 27, 2019

MightyMax said:
I'm glad he's still taking his medicine!

You are doing a fab job at nursing him

Sadly he started to reject the medicine, or rather he spits about third of the juice out or rather doesn't swallow it whole and lets it spill out of his mouth, tho today he did make bubbles, like little children do when they play with food, which would have been rather cute if it wasn't medicine he was doing that with. For some reason the latest tablet isn't dissolving as good as the previous did and we think he doesn't like the taste ( the vet warned us the tablet itself is a bit bitter, that's why we've been giving it to him with juice

We also didn't see him drink on his own for a while, so we don't know if his swallowing is any better, but after we didn't see him drink for a while we started to give him water by syringe every time we remember ( about 30times a day, a ml or two at a time ) and he laps that up easily rarely coughing. Hopefully he's getting enough water, should we try and give him more?

Jack's-Jane · Feb 27, 2019

zajci said:
Sadly he started to reject the medicine, or rather he spits about third of the juice out or rather doesn't swallow it whole and lets it spill out of his mouth, tho today he did make bubbles, like little children do when they play with food, which would have been rather cute if it wasn't medicine he was doing that with. For some reason the latest tablet isn't dissolving as good as the previous did and we think he doesn't like the taste ( the vet warned us the tablet itself is a bit bitter, that's why we've been giving it to him with juice

We also didn't see him drink on his own for a while, so we don't know if his swallowing is any better, but after we didn't see him drink for a while we started to give him water by syringe every time we remember ( about 30times a day, a ml or two at a time ) and he laps that up easily rarely coughing. Hopefully he's getting enough water, should we try and give him more?

A Rabbit's normal water intake is 50ml-100ml/kg/day

MightyMax · Feb 27, 2019

zajci said:
Sadly he started to reject the medicine, or rather he spits about third of the juice out or rather doesn't swallow it whole and lets it spill out of his mouth, tho today he did make bubbles, like little children do when they play with food, which would have been rather cute if it wasn't medicine he was doing that with. For some reason the latest tablet isn't dissolving as good as the previous did and we think he doesn't like the taste ( the vet warned us the tablet itself is a bit bitter, that's why we've been giving it to him with juice

We also didn't see him drink on his own for a while, so we don't know if his swallowing is any better, but after we didn't see him drink for a while we started to give him water by syringe every time we remember ( about 30times a day, a ml or two at a time ) and he laps that up easily rarely coughing. Hopefully he's getting enough water, should we try and give him more?

I am sorry to read he isn't so good today

That's a good amount of water that you are giving him. It must be exhausting for you all and pretty stressful. I would balance the stress against giving him extra water by syringe.

zajci · Feb 28, 2019

MightyMax said:
I am sorry to read he isn't so good today

That's a good amount of water that you are giving him. It must be exhausting for you all and pretty stressful. I would balance the stress against giving him extra water by syringe.

Well overall he seems okay. Just doesn't eat the medicine as well as he did. It is a bit stressful but it's worth it IMO.

MightyMax · Mar 7, 2019

zajci said:
Well overall he seems okay. Just doesn't eat the medicine as well as he did. It is a bit stressful but it's worth it IMO.

Checking in to see how things are now with your little one?

Bunny coughing after drinking water

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