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Caring for bunny with few/no more upper molars - questions and advice pls!

Thumper98

Thumper98

Warren Scout
Does anyone have experience with caring for bunnies with few or no upper molars?

My female bun Lilou has had 5 upper teeth removed (I think she's got no more upper molars left), 2 in April and then 3 more on Monday. She has always been a dental bun but i really don't know why her teeth keep coming loose!

She has made it through the procedure quite well and is now already bright and eating on her own. BUT, she is drooling a lot (she looks pretty awful), and has been pooping and peeing everywhere. Her poop looks normal-ish. Given that she's 9+, I am pleased with how she's come through so far. I will be giving her critical care at least 3 times a day till she puts on more weight.

I am now thinking long term: how do i care for her when she has no more upper molars? She is not a hay lover but does eat some hay. How do I get her to eat more hay so she doesn't have to go through another dental, because i really don't think she can take more? (I have tried every brand under the sun where i live. I currently import her favourite hay from another country.)

Some ideas I have:

1. Reducing pellets (dilemma here - i do need her to put on weight. She's quite thin.) and only giving pellets at the END of the meal when she's already satisfied on hay and veg rather than at the start.

2. Feed her critical care 1- 2 times a day as part of her diet going forward. At least she gets enough nutrition and keeps her weight up.

Finally, I ask myself if I am just prolonging her life unnaturally... i know if she didn't have the care I have given/going to give her, she would not have survived. I love her very much and I really want my buns to live for as long as possible. But I don't want her to suffer! She is still a happy girl and loves her treats.

Would so appreciate any ideas/thoughts/advice :(
 
Thumper98 said:
Does anyone have experience with caring for bunnies with few or no upper molars?

My female bun Lilou has had 5 upper teeth removed (I think she's got no more upper molars left), 2 in April and then 3 more on Monday. She has always been a dental bun but i really don't know why her teeth keep coming loose!

She has made it through the procedure quite well and is now already bright and eating on her own. BUT, she is drooling a lot (she looks pretty awful), and has been pooping and peeing everywhere. Her poop looks normal-ish. Given that she's 9+, I am pleased with how she's come through so far. I will be giving her critical care at least 3 times a day till she puts on more weight.

I am now thinking long term: how do i care for her when she has no more upper molars? She is not a hay lover but does eat some hay. How do I get her to eat more hay so she doesn't have to go through another dental, because i really don't think she can take more? (I have tried every brand under the sun where i live. I currently import her favourite hay from another country.)

Some ideas I have:

1. Reducing pellets (dilemma here - i do need her to put on weight. She's quite thin.) and only giving pellets at the END of the meal when she's already satisfied on hay and veg rather than at the start.

2. Feed her critical care 1- 2 times a day as part of her diet going forward. At least she gets enough nutrition and keeps her weight up.

Finally, I ask myself if I am just prolonging her life unnaturally... i know if she didn't have the care I have given/going to give her, she would not have survived. I love her very much and I really want my buns to live for as long as possible. But I don't want her to suffer! She is still a happy girl and loves her treats.

Would so appreciate any ideas/thoughts/advice :(
Click to expand...

If she has no upper molars then it will be very unlikely that she will be able to eat much hay. The chewing action needed to eat hay necessitates a rotary jaw motion using both upper and lower molars to grind the hay.

I have cared for a few elderly almost toothless Rabbits and they were feed on softened high fibre concentrate feed -Fibafirst https://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/ ad lib, grated vegetables, vegetable baby food, pro and prebiotics . None of the Rabbits would have been able to maintain their weight if I had restricted their concentrate feed/veg. It was physically impossible for them to eat much hay/grass.

The drooling may be due to some abscessation. Has this been ruled out ? Skull radiographs would be needed to do this.

Is she receiving any pain relief ?
 
Thank you Jack's Jane! She's just out of the vet so I am sure they've done the necessary to rule out any abscesses. They are rabbit savvy vets. Will see if it's just her getting used to having less teeth.

The vet mentioned that she would need to have longer bits of hay cut short, and to perhaps choose the softer bits not the coarse bits for her. I will check in again tomorrow if she indeed has no more upper molars or just has a couple left.

Vet said pellets and veg wouldnt be an issue. Problem lies with the hay. But without hay, she will need to go in for another dental because her lower teeth would just keep growing.

Thank you for recommending the fiba concentrate. I will go check it out now!
 
Thumper98 said:
Does anyone have experience with caring for bunnies with few or no upper molars?

My female bun Lilou has had 5 upper teeth removed (I think she's got no more upper molars left), 2 in April and then 3 more on Monday. She has always been a dental bun but i really don't know why her teeth keep coming loose!

She has made it through the procedure quite well and is now already bright and eating on her own. BUT, she is drooling a lot (she looks pretty awful), and has been pooping and peeing everywhere. Her poop looks normal-ish. Given that she's 9+, I am pleased with how she's come through so far. I will be giving her critical care at least 3 times a day till she puts on more weight.

I am now thinking long term: how do i care for her when she has no more upper molars? She is not a hay lover but does eat some hay. How do I get her to eat more hay so she doesn't have to go through another dental, because i really don't think she can take more? (I have tried every brand under the sun where i live. I currently import her favourite hay from another country.)

Some ideas I have:

1. Reducing pellets (dilemma here - i do need her to put on weight. She's quite thin.) and only giving pellets at the END of the meal when she's already satisfied on hay and veg rather than at the start.

2. Feed her critical care 1- 2 times a day as part of her diet going forward. At least she gets enough nutrition and keeps her weight up.

Finally, I ask myself if I am just prolonging her life unnaturally... i know if she didn't have the care I have given/going to give her, she would not have survived. I love her very much and I really want my buns to live for as long as possible. But I don't want her to suffer! She is still a happy girl and loves her treats.

Would so appreciate any ideas/thoughts/advice :(
Click to expand...


Hi there :wave:

I've cared for loads of dental bunnies, and although it can be bit of a challenge, they can do very well :)

I often use fibafirst sticks:

https://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/

Or another similar kind of food:

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-food...care-plus-digestive-health-formula-1kg-p-5639

But they can also usually eat pellets really well, perhaps softened with a bit of organic baby food to begin with.
Also, lots of shredded or grated veggies/forage :D

I don't think, if she has no upper molars, you'll be able to get her to successfully eat enough hay to keep the lower molars ground down. I expect she's drooling a lot because she's just had those extra teeth removed?

The other thing I use to keep weight up in a dental rabbit is a pinch of porridge oats twice daily.
I feed these dry, as that's what's often preferred, but you can wet them if necessary.

If she will eat critical care off a plate, without having the stress of always syringe feeding, then I would certainly do that.


What would concern me is the dentals that she might need in future to keep the lower teeth under control.
Has your vet suggested what to do about that issue?
 
MightyMax said:
Hi there :wave:

I've cared for loads of dental bunnies, and although it can be bit of a challenge, they can do very well :)

I often use fibafirst sticks:

https://supremepetfoods.com/fiba-first-2/

Or another similar kind of food:

https://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-food...care-plus-digestive-health-formula-1kg-p-5639

But they can also usually eat pellets really well, perhaps softened with a bit of organic baby food to begin with.
Also, lots of shredded or grated veggies/forage :D

I don't think, if she has no upper molars, you'll be able to get her to successfully eat enough hay to keep the lower molars ground down. I expect she's drooling a lot because she's just had those extra teeth removed?

The other thing I use to keep weight up in a dental rabbit is a pinch of porridge oats twice daily.
I feed these dry, as that's what's often preferred, but you can wet them if necessary.

If she will eat critical care off a plate, without having the stress of always syringe feeding, then I would certainly do that.


What would concern me is the dentals that she might need in future to keep the lower teeth under control.
Has your vet suggested what to do about that issue?
Click to expand...

Hi MightyMax:wave:

Thanks so much for your reply and for the assurance that they could do well.

She is eating quite well now for a bun thats has gone through an invasive procedure. She is eating her veg and herbs albeit slowly, and she just loves her pellets. You can see her face just light up when she got her pellets and how her ears twitch as she digs into them:love:

How do you feed the porridge oats? Do you just throw a tea spoon into the pellets bowl and let them eat it that way? She doesn't like softened, mushy food.

I don't think she will have anything to do with the critical care if i don't syringe feed, but she seems to take the syringe feeding OK.

The vet didn't have an answer for the future care of lower teeth, but I will ask again at the review. I guess that's why I was hoping someone on here has experience on this and could suggest things I can do. I saw that Fiba sticks can help to a certain extent because it makes them chew longer hence wearing down the teeth. I don't live in the UK but I will try to order some online.
 
Thumper98 said:
Thank you Jack's Jane! She's just out of the vet so I am sure they've done the necessary to rule out any abscesses. They are rabbit savvy vets. Will see if it's just her getting used to having less teeth.

The vet mentioned that she would need to have longer bits of hay cut short, and to perhaps choose the softer bits not the coarse bits for her. I will check in again tomorrow if she indeed has no more upper molars or just has a couple left.

Vet said pellets and veg wouldnt be an issue. Problem lies with the hay. But without hay, she will need to go in for another dental because her lower teeth would just keep growing.

Thank you for recommending the fiba concentrate. I will go check it out now!
Click to expand...

Even if Bunny were able to eat a bit of hay it would not really stop the remaining molars from growing too long/developing spurs. They would need the now missing molars to grind against, if you see what I mean. I think your priority will be getting Bunny on a diet that will maintain her weight and keep her GI tract as healthy as possible, both as far as motility goes and also trying to avoid dysbiosis (which can occur when a Rabbit is not eating much long fibre, relying more on carbohydrates for calorie intake).

These links may be of interest to you :

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Dental_diseases/Differential/Rabbit_dentistry.pdf

https://www.vetstream.com/treat/lapis/freeform/dental-malocclusion-overgrowth

https://www.ufaw.org.uk/rabbits/netherland-dwarf-dental-malocclusion

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/me...urse/3-complications-of-dental-procedures.pdf
 
Basically I think I am repeating the good advice others have posted. The remaining teeth will continue to grow and are highly likely to need burring down as they have no top teeth to rub against to wear naturally. With the 2 rabbits I had with similar issues (major jaw abscesses and teeth falling out), they didn't need dentals as regularly as I thought they might over the 18 months or so that they had left. They were both keen on all sorts of natural forage which helped with the fibre content. They preferred to eat leaves at eye level rather than off the floor as they could manipulate them better in their mouths. eg apple twigs, raspberry, blackcurrant, bramble, willow - all with leaves on the stems (not as easy at this time of year, though). They manage grass a lot better than hay, although I did end up cutting it up into tiny pieces at one point (using scissors). Dandelions and other soft weeds always went down well. Cabbage, carrot, etc from the kitchen can be shredded or grated to suit. Otherwise, they need to keep their weight up, so pretty much unlimited pellets (softened if needed), critical care, etc. however they will eat it (eg off a saucer, spoon fed, syringe fed),
 
Thumper98 said:
Hi MightyMax:wave:

Thanks so much for your reply and for the assurance that they could do well.

She is eating quite well now for a bun thats has gone through an invasive procedure. She is eating her veg and herbs albeit slowly, and she just loves her pellets. You can see her face just light up when she got her pellets and how her ears twitch as she digs into them:love:

How do you feed the porridge oats? Do you just throw a tea spoon into the pellets bowl and let them eat it that way? She doesn't like softened, mushy food.

I don't think she will have anything to do with the critical care if i don't syringe feed, but she seems to take the syringe feeding OK.

The vet didn't have an answer for the future care of lower teeth, but I will ask again at the review. I guess that's why I was hoping someone on here has experience on this and could suggest things I can do. I saw that Fiba sticks can help to a certain extent because it makes them chew longer hence wearing down the teeth. I don't live in the UK but I will try to order some online.
Click to expand...


With the porridge oats, I put a pinch in with the normal mashed up food for the dental bun and it gets gobbled up. I manage to feed the special needs bunnies separately but if you can't then you'll have to try and separate for a short while.

The other thing which is good is sunflower kernels, as they are quite fattening, full of vitamins and vitamin E which protects the immune system. If you like you can grind them up and mix with the food but I feed a few as they are.

Regards the Critical Care, I'm not surprised she won't eat it. My buns don't find it that tasty! You could try mixing it with some organic baby food - veg/carrot/parsnip etc and see whether it becomes more palatable?
 
Thank you everyone for your advice. I will try many of these suggestions as possible.

Lilou is booked in to see the vet again tomorrow morning as she is tearing quite badly. I realised it's not drooling but tearing and I am really worried even if she's still eating, pooping etc. The vets are surprised too as she was fine the 2 days she was hospitalised at the vet's. She just looks miserable. :( I don't know how long more she still has and i think Shimmer you wrote yours had about 18 months... that brought tears to my eyes. She's still eating and loving her treats and pellets so I think she still wants to live. And my promise to her was that as long as she still wants to fight, i will fight with her.

I will go get the porridge oats tomorrow and see if she will take that dry - she doesn't seem to like mushy stuff.

Question on the sunflower seeds - i have lots of them from my own sunflowers that I harvested when they dried up. They are not treated of course. Can I feed them directly? Or is it only the kernels?

Thanks to everyone again!!
 
Thumper98 said:
Thank you everyone for your advice. I will try many of these suggestions as possible.

Lilou is booked in to see the vet again tomorrow morning as she is tearing quite badly. I realised it's not drooling but tearing and I am really worried even if she's still eating, pooping etc. The vets are surprised too as she was fine the 2 days she was hospitalised at the vet's. She just looks miserable. :( I don't know how long more she still has and i think Shimmer you wrote yours had about 18 months... that brought tears to my eyes. She's still eating and loving her treats and pellets so I think she still wants to live. And my promise to her was that as long as she still wants to fight, i will fight with her.

I will go get the porridge oats tomorrow and see if she will take that dry - she doesn't seem to like mushy stuff.

Question on the sunflower seeds - i have lots of them from my own sunflowers that I harvested when they dried up. They are not treated of course. Can I feed them directly? Or is it only the kernels?

Thanks to everyone again!!
Click to expand...


Welcome :)

I only feed the sunflower kernels. The outer husk may well be too much for her to chew on anyway, and sharp bits could lodge in her gums if she can't grind them up.

The tooth roots can cause tearing, even if the teeth have been removed, and if there was pressure on the tear ducts this can cause an imbalance.

Make sure you keep the eye/s clean by bathing with cooled boiled water and a soft cotton pad - I usually do it twice daily - otherwise the skin beneath the eyes can start to get sore.
 
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