Pasteurella bunnies.....what works for yours?

My 8 year old girls both seem to have Pasteurella. Lola really does not get bothered by it often, just very rarely watery eyes, but Cookie has had bad flare ups on and off for 2 years now. She is just having the worst moult of her life (brilliant as I am allergic to her!) and I am certain this has drained the energy out of her immune system and she is having another flare up. I even wondered if it would happen and it has She is breathing fast again, and has sneezed a lot tonight, so will be off to the vets tomorrow.

We last went 2 ish months ago with it when we very nearly lost her which I am thinking in part was the vet possibly overdosing her although I can't say for certain. I just know she was much worse after he medicated her in the surgery (very unsure of himself when he was doing it) and when I mentioned what happened to another vet there she didn't really acknowledge what I was saying but she is a bit better with rabbits at least and backed my choice with something else the first vet had tried to do that I wouldn't agree too.

So far we have managed it with courses of Sulfratrim which she seems to respond to and I fully expect to get that again tomorrow. I am worried she will get resistance to that anti biotic and have the added worry of the new vets and who we will get. I have been reading links on old threads but my heads getting muddled reading through all the names of things but am curious if anyone has had any recent success with anything?

Thank you in advance xxx

Have your vets ever done a culture and sensitivity test? This can pinpoint the abx most effective. If not, I would recommend seeking out a vet who specialises in exotics rather than paying out for one that is not rabbit savvy.
You may find that nebulising may also help with flare ups. The moulting will definitely be having an effect. It seems to be a particularly bad year for it. x

No they haven't, but really going on for two years they should have. They've just gone by symptoms and inflammation on an x ray. I can suggest it though, just fingers crossed it is the better of the vets tomorrow. Ours changed hands to to a chain that runs the out of hours and I haven't been overly impressed by the set up at all really, there certainly doesn't seem any continuity as they rotate round all the practices. Not sure we have anyone round here that is especially bunny savvy now without travelling really far, but I will ask for the one that was ok by name so not to be booked in with anyone else aside from tomorrow when it's desperate.

I wondered about nebulising. Certainly not something I have any experience with but have heard it mentioned on here before.

I'm quite gutted its back again. She was doing so well after the horrendous last time. Like she had a new found zest for life and acting younger than she has for years! They've definitely had a terrible moult. She tends to have a bad one, but this has been something else! and Lola's has been really weird too. Lola currently looks massive as she's got her new fur, old fur, and still more patches of stubby new fur are growing. Its been coming out in handfuls and Cookie looks terrible. super skinny and has huge moult lines. I've been calling them my little maltesers

newbabybuns said:

No they haven't, but really going on for two years they should have. They've just gone by symptoms and inflammation on an x ray. I can suggest it though, just fingers crossed it is the better of the vets tomorrow. Ours changed hands to to a chain that runs the out of hours and I haven't been overly impressed by the set up at all really, there certainly doesn't seem any continuity as they rotate round all the practices. Not sure we have anyone round here that is especially bunny savvy now without travelling really far, but I will ask for the one that was ok by name so not to be booked in with anyone else aside from tomorrow when it's desperate.

I wondered about nebulising. Certainly not something I have any experience with but have heard it mentioned on here before.

I'm quite gutted its back again. She was doing so well after the horrendous last time. Like she had a new found zest for life and acting younger than she has for years! They've definitely had a terrible moult. She tends to have a bad one, but this has been something else! and Lola's has been really weird too. Lola currently looks massive as she's got her new fur, old fur, and still more patches of stubby new fur are growing. Its been coming out in handfuls and Cookie looks terrible. super skinny and has huge moult lines. I've been calling them my little maltesers

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I agree with bunslave about the nebulising

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?458211-Nebuliser-help&highlight=nebulising

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...les-amp-saline-nebuliser-for-rabbit-amp-owner!


http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?422833-How-do-you-use-a-nebuliser


http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?457360-Chronic-nasal-issues&highlight=nebulising

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?437661-Nebuliser&highlight=nebulising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpVeWhJ8RA


Some medical info here ...

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf


I have found it difficult to eradicate using antibiotics simply because they don't penetrate the nasal membranes well enough.

Putting Baytril in the nebuliser might help, though I only use saline.
I also use Bisolvon, which helps thin the mucous and helps it pass.

I have found that 'alternatives' such as echinacea and other herbs/treatment have worked far better than antibiotics in cases like this

Good luck! xx

newbabybuns said:

My 8 year old girls both seem to have Pasteurella. Lola really does not get bothered by it often, just very rarely watery eyes, but Cookie has had bad flare ups on and off for 2 years now. She is just having the worst moult of her life (brilliant as I am allergic to her!) and I am certain this has drained the energy out of her immune system and she is having another flare up. I even wondered if it would happen and it has She is breathing fast again, and has sneezed a lot tonight, so will be off to the vets tomorrow.

We last went 2 ish months ago with it when we very nearly lost her which I am thinking in part was the vet possibly overdosing her although I can't say for certain. I just know she was much worse after he medicated her in the surgery (very unsure of himself when he was doing it) and when I mentioned what happened to another vet there she didn't really acknowledge what I was saying but she is a bit better with rabbits at least and backed my choice with something else the first vet had tried to do that I wouldn't agree too.

So far we have managed it with courses of Sulfratrim which she seems to respond to and I fully expect to get that again tomorrow. I am worried she will get resistance to that anti biotic and have the added worry of the new vets and who we will get. I have been reading links on old threads but my heads getting muddled reading through all the names of things but am curious if anyone has had any recent success with anything?

Thank you in advance xxx

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As Bunslave has mentioned, identifying whether or not it is actually Pasteurella you are dealing with would be useful

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/navc/2006/SAE/637.pdf?LA=1

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...div_TechniquesRabbit/NasalSwabbingRabbits.htm

According to Kevin Eatwell (Senior Lecturer and Manager of the Royal D1ck Vet Rabbit and Exotic Practice in Edinburgh) radiography is often the first diagnostic tool used to evaluate the nasal chambers. This may not show up mild disease, but it gives an opportunity to assess tooth roots which can be implicated in cases of chronic rhinitis . He considers CT scanning to be much more useful and for this only mild sedation is needed. However, unless the Rabbit(S) are insured CT scanning could be cost prohibitive.

Mr Eatwell also recommends nasal endoscopic examination. But this requires a full GA and once again will add to the costs for a client without Insurance. Obtaining a reliable nasal swab is only really possible via endoscopy as cells taken are guarded in the sterile endoscope sheath. Without this a deep nasal swab is contaminated as soon as it is exposed to the external nares (nostrils). Thus any results would be unreliable.

If you would like to read the full article by Kevin Eatwell I can email it to you in pdf form. I cant post it on here as it's copyright protected.

I am not sure if you have already seen this thread. it's extremely long but you may pick up a few tips if you can plough your way through it

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...uffle-bunny-thread&highlight=snuffles+bunnies

Another thing to consider is the length of the course of abx treatment. Often the treatment needs to be much longer than the usual 5-7 days. It certainly needs to continue for several days AFTER all clinical symptoms have resolved. At the moment one of my Rabbits is on a 3 week course of abx for a RTI and this may be extended even further if necessary. Anti inflammatories are usually very important too, again this is mentioned in Kevin Eatwell's article I have already referred to.

Antibiotics given via nebulisation is another option as is giving a mucolytic such as N-acetyl-cysteine or Bisolvon (bromhexine hydrochloride)

A few more links which relate to Respiratory Tract problems

http://www.veterinarywebinars.com/m...oads/2016/03/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

I hope you get on OK at the Vets x

I haven’t had experience of this so I can’t advise, but I’m sending lots of vibes. If you aren’t happy with the vets then I would personally change to a rabbit savvy vet. You could post on here asking for recommendations. If you post asking for rabbit savvy vet in your area hopefully someone can advise. And there’s also a list of rabbit savvy vets here https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/rabbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/

Just a quick update as I have to go out in a bit but will come back later to read through everything properly. Lots to have a look through, thank you so much xxx

She is back on the same as before for a week to see how she goes, then if not will be in again. Didn't have a huge amount of time as I was in after they closed as they had an emergency in and were behind and I appreciated they stayed behind for me. Probably also why I didn't question the high bill I was given, can only assume they charge more for Saturdays now. Lots more :shock: I'm such a wuss though and didn't want to kick up a fuss when essentially they had done me a favour. Gaaah.

newbabybuns said:

Just a quick update as I have to go out in a bit but will come back later to read through everything properly. Lots to have a look through, thank you so much xxx

She is back on the same as before for a week to see how she goes, then if not will be in again. Didn't have a huge amount of time as I was in after they closed as they had an emergency in and were behind and I appreciated they stayed behind for me. Probably also why I didn't question the high bill I was given, can only assume they charge more for Saturdays now. Lots more :shock: I'm such a wuss though and didn't want to kick up a fuss when essentially they had done me a favour. Gaaah.

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Oh dear! Sorry this was all done in a hurry.

I hope you have time to digest all the info and some it helps

Just thinking about Cookie and wondering how things are now? :wave:

Are you OK? xx

MightyMax said:

Just thinking about Cookie and wondering how things are now? :wave:

Are you OK? xx

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Sorry MM! Thank you for thinking of us. I had to turn the wifi off the other night as my 14 year old was giving me attitude :lol: and was at work and then parents for dinner today. Cookie is ok, hating her meds as per usual! but she is otherwise quite happy which is the main thing.

Will return to the thread properly tomorrow but didn't want to not reply as I know there's a good chance you'll still be awake

newbabybuns said:

Sorry MM! Thank you for thinking of us. I had to turn the wifi off the other night as my 14 year old was giving me attitude :lol: and was at work and then parents for dinner today. Cookie is ok, hating her meds as per usual! but she is otherwise quite happy which is the main thing.

Will return to the thread properly tomorrow but didn't want to not reply as I know there's a good chance you'll still be awake

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You know me well :lol:

No rush. I have to ask when it pops into my mind, as then I want to know how things are

I've started to have a read through all the links, (hampered slightly by having to turn the wifi off again due to my teenager refusing to do anything as she just sits on the Internet all day, grrr!) so thank you for posting them. I hope if anyone else searches for Pasteurella they stumble upon this thread.

Jane, thank you for linking Jenovas thread. I remember Grim! I had forgotten about his thread but it is full of valuable info. I'm 5 pages in! Interesting already that they found the changes in weather a factor as that was something I asked about when Cookie very first got ill. I really think there is something in that. I'm going to keep going through it after work tomorrow.

Thankfully her nasal passage seems clearer now. I've not heard her sneeze at all today, and no new wetness. Her breathing is still rapid and this is the only symptom she has today really and the main one each time it flares up. Thankfully the vet heard no noises in her lungs. One vet that saw her last time wanted to do a GA X ray but I wasn't convinced she was breathing well enough to tolerate it. She had a conscious/very mildly sedated one in a previous flare up that showed minor inflammation. He said he wouldn't do another one of those as it was 'half arsed' and it was full GA or nothing. The vet we saw the week after (who seems to be ok with bunnies there) said she wouldn't put her through a GA in her condition.

I still haven't plucked up the courage to ask them about my bill either she had a consultation, a week of Sulfratrim and a small bottle of Metacam that I think was 10 ml and it came to £118. I'm sure it was about £47 minus the Metacam before.

newbabybuns said:

I've started to have a read through all the links, (hampered slightly by having to turn the wifi off again due to my teenager refusing to do anything as she just sits on the Internet all day, grrr!) so thank you for posting them. I hope if anyone else searches for Pasteurella they stumble upon this thread.

Jane, thank you for linking Jenovas thread. I remember Grim! I had forgotten about his thread but it is full of valuable info. I'm 5 pages in! Interesting already that they found the changes in weather a factor as that was something I asked about when Cookie very first got ill. I really think there is something in that. I'm going to keep going through it after work tomorrow.

Thankfully her nasal passage seems clearer now. I've not heard her sneeze at all today, and no new wetness. Her breathing is still rapid and this is the only symptom she has today really and the main one each time it flares up. Thankfully the vet heard no noises in her lungs. One vet that saw her last time wanted to do a GA X ray but I wasn't convinced she was breathing well enough to tolerate it. She had a conscious/very mildly sedated one in a previous flare up that showed minor inflammation. He said he wouldn't do another one of those as it was 'half arsed' and it was full GA or nothing. The vet we saw the week after (who seems to be ok with bunnies there) said she wouldn't put her through a GA in her condition.

I still haven't plucked up the courage to ask them about my bill either she had a consultation, a week of Sulfratrim and a small bottle of Metacam that I think was 10 ml and it came to £118. I'm sure it was about £47 minus the Metacam before.

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Is she also having some Metacam ? This can help reduce inflammation within the nares and in the lungs. The increased respiratory rate could be indicative of some lung involvement, even if the Vet could not actually hear any issues when he/she auscultated the chest.

One of my Rabbits, Aoife, has a severe LRTI and this video shows her respiratory rate a couple of weeks ago when she was at her worst

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3pwDtLcCnQ

But nothing abnormal was detected when THREE different Vets listened to her chest. Aoife is doing MUCH better now. She is on Sulfatrim too and will remain on it for at least 4 weeks.

Your bill certainly seems rather excessive to me. If you feel able to I would raise the issue with the Vet.

Sending more vibes for Cookie

newbabybuns said:

I've started to have a read through all the links, (hampered slightly by having to turn the wifi off again due to my teenager refusing to do anything as she just sits on the Internet all day, grrr!) so thank you for posting them. I hope if anyone else searches for Pasteurella they stumble upon this thread.

Jane, thank you for linking Jenovas thread. I remember Grim! I had forgotten about his thread but it is full of valuable info. I'm 5 pages in! Interesting already that they found the changes in weather a factor as that was something I asked about when Cookie very first got ill. I really think there is something in that. I'm going to keep going through it after work tomorrow.

Thankfully her nasal passage seems clearer now. I've not heard her sneeze at all today, and no new wetness. Her breathing is still rapid and this is the only symptom she has today really and the main one each time it flares up. Thankfully the vet heard no noises in her lungs. One vet that saw her last time wanted to do a GA X ray but I wasn't convinced she was breathing well enough to tolerate it. She had a conscious/very mildly sedated one in a previous flare up that showed minor inflammation. He said he wouldn't do another one of those as it was 'half arsed' and it was full GA or nothing. The vet we saw the week after (who seems to be ok with bunnies there) said she wouldn't put her through a GA in her condition.

I still haven't plucked up the courage to ask them about my bill either she had a consultation, a week of Sulfratrim and a small bottle of Metacam that I think was 10 ml and it came to £118. I'm sure it was about £47 minus the Metacam before.

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Hi there :wave:

Glad to hear her nasal passage seems clearer now and no sneezing (long may it continue!).

I had to go the full hog and get one of mine X-rayed in order to fully check what was going on in a case similar to yours, but I really empathise about worrying over the risks of this.

I hope the Sulfatrim does the trick, and I'm glad to hear that you have the Metacam, as that will certainly help to reduce any inflammation in the lungs and the nasal passages. I am concerned that the nasal passages do not get scarred as that creates a bigger problem than ever.

Have you thought of Bisolvon? It's a mucolytic and thins the mucous so it passes easily. It's cheap and you just put a pinch on food, and a small packet lasts for weeks.

I should query the bill. Be brave - that doesn't sound right, does it? xx

Jack's-Jane said:

Is she also having some Metacam ? This can help reduce inflammation within the nares and in the lungs. The increased respiratory rate could be indicative of some lung involvement, even if the Vet could not actually hear any issues when he/she auscultated the chest.

One of my Rabbits, Aoife, has a severe LRTI and this video shows her respiratory rate a couple of weeks ago when she was at her worst

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3pwDtLcCnQ

But nothing abnormal was detected when THREE different Vets listened to her chest. Aoife is doing MUCH better now. She is on Sulfatrim too and will remain on it for at least 4 weeks.

Your bill certainly seems rather excessive to me. If you feel able to I would raise the issue with the Vet.

Sending more vibes for Cookie

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Beautiful Aoife yes shes just like Cookie! I took a video like that to show the vet before as it was hard for them to tell what she was like 'at rest' when she was nervous/on alert in the vet. Yes she has Metacam too. When she had the original X ray months ago that showed signs of inflammation the vet also gave her that, so it is added into her treatment plan now with each flare up. If its a different vet I suggest it and they are always happy to give it. Like Aoife they've never been able to hear anything in the lungs at all which is good in a way that it's not progressing deeper. I read a medical term on one of the links that I was going to look into further about that I think.

Thank you for the vibes for her, sending continued vibes for Aoife. I'm glad to hear Sulfratrim is what you and your vet are using too xxx

MightyMax said:

Hi there :wave:

Glad to hear her nasal passage seems clearer now and no sneezing (long may it continue!).

I had to go the full hog and get one of mine X-rayed in order to fully check what was going on in a case similar to yours, but I really empathise about worrying over the risks of this.

I hope the Sulfatrim does the trick, and I'm glad to hear that you have the Metacam, as that will certainly help to reduce any inflammation in the lungs and the nasal passages. I am concerned that the nasal passages do not get scarred as that creates a bigger problem than ever.

Have you thought of Bisolvon? It's a mucolytic and thins the mucous so it passes easily. It's cheap and you just put a pinch on food, and a small packet lasts for weeks.

I should query the bill. Be brave - that doesn't sound right, does it? xx

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Thank you! I've just got in so can listen out for sneezes tonight. The other night it was multiple times an hour :shock: yes I'm wondering about scarring too as this has been on and off for 2 years now, and at 8 she's no spring chicken. I know my lungs don't feel in good shape after all these allergic reactions!

I've heard of Bisolvin but never really knew what it was/was for. That sounds quite useful actually and might be worth having for Lola when she gets a bit snuffly as it seems her nose is affected more than Cookie although she rarely flares up unlike Cookie Monster.

I'll try and be brave and ring the vets about the bill tomorrow as I'm not at work until Sunday now so plenty of time. I've noticed a discrepancy on the prescribing label so perhaps it was that. This time it says something like 5.0 x Sulfratrim but before was 0.5 x Sulfratrim. Something along those lines anyway

When I had a long term snuffle bun, his Culture test actually showed it was most responsive to Baytril, we just needed to find a better way of getting it in to him. He was nebulised daily with a mix of baytril (injectable form nebulises better than oral) and saline. We also use bisolven. We would add metacam in if there was a rough patch, but mostly this combination kept him comfortable for a long time. In my experience even nebulising saline alone can make a marked difference in snuffle bunnies. I used an omron C28 and home made a chamber from a plastic storage box.