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Advice please - Henry bun - U/D 01/08/18

Craig 1965

Craig 1965

Warren Veteran
Could I please ask you for some guidance/opinions please regarding a potential problem with Lillians hus-bun, Henry.
I noticed this evening as we were doing a minor claw trim, that Henry apperas to have the development of a sore on his left hind leg, at the ankle area. There's evidence of a bald area, small, and a red sore centre. My Bridge bun Georgina developed this, in teh same area and from what I could detrrmine, this was bumblefoot and she struggled with it for about 9 months before she went to the bridge.
Henry isn't presenting as struggling to hop/run/jump and he's still as active as he was when we got him. He isn't sitting in soiled areas and is predominantly a house rabbit along with Lillian, other than being out in the garden for free time.
Obviously the vet is my first call - earliest I can do this is wednesday. With Georgina, the vets didn't seem optimistic with the prognosis and I ended up treating and nursing the developing sore until she left us. Her foot ended up turning in almost 90 degrees with the condition.
Has anyone any views/thoughts on what this may be (bumblefoot is my first thought). He's a young bun and as far as I know, he isn't doing anything to bring on the onset of this condition ie not overweight etc. He's active, full of energy and zooms about and I've always kept the rabbits area clean.
Thanks
Craig
 
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I had to google bumblefoot, aka sore hocks? JacksJane has had a lot of success treating sore hocks - I know its easier said than done but try not to worry & definitely don't think of it as the begining of the end. From what I understand its about getting to the root cause & addressing that . If the infection goes bone deep then obviously that is a worry. Flooring is important too. I'm no expert though did have two buns with this. I'll handover to the experts but sending my very best vibes
 
Craig 1965 said:
Could I please ask you for some guidance/opinions please regarding a potential problem with Lillians hus-bun, Henry.
I noticed this evening as we were doing a minor claw trim, that Henry apperas to have the development of a sore on his left hind leg, at the ankle area. There's evidence of a bald area, small, and a red sore centre. My Bridge bun Georgina developed this, in teh same area and from what I could detrrmine, this was bumblefoot and she struggled with it for about 9 months before she went to the bridge.
Henry isn't presenting as struggling to hop/run/jump and he's still as active as he was when we got him. He isn't sitting in soiled areas and is predominantly a house rabbit along with Lillian, other than being out in the garden for free time.
Obviously the vet is my first call - earliest I can do this is wednesday. With Georgina, the vets didn't seem optimistic with the prognosis and I ended up treating and nursing the developing sore until she left us. Her foot ended up turning in almost 90 degrees with the condition.
Has anyone any views/thoughts on what this may be (bumblefoot is my first thought). He's a young bun and as far as I know, he isn't doing anything to bring on the onset of this condition ie not overweight etc. He's active, full of energy and zooms about and I've always kept the rabbits area clean.
Thanks
Craig
Click to expand...


Aww Craig, poor Henry!

The best thing to do would be a visit to the vet, who will possibly give you a cream to help healing, and suggest (if the feet are actually bleeding) to bandage them. It's difficult to attempt this safely yourself, so I wouldn't try it at home or you risk making it too tight. If it's really bad the vet may prescribe pain killers, at least for the short term.

Carpet isn't the best for sore hocks .. you could perhaps try covering the area Henry goes in and rests in most with a cotton sheet, a duvet cover or a piece of vet bed (really soft!). Carpet can be quite abrasive. I don't know if any adjustment here is possible at all?

Keeping the nails trimmed is also important. Long nails will throw the weight onto the back of the foot, which you don't want. This will make the problem worse - as will being overweight of course (not that I'm suggesting this!)

Is it just one foot? The vet might be able to advise why it's happened - e.g. if excess weight is going on one particular hock than the other. It's important to get to the primary cause of the problem, if at all possible. It could be spinal issues, arthritis or some reason for favouring one foot over the other.

You might find some more info here:
**some links have graphic photos**

http://www.sawneeanimalclinic.com/downloads/sore_hocks_pododermatitis_in_rabbits.pdf

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/sore-hocks.html

http://www.vetcareltd.co.uk/pet-factsheets/Factsheets/Otherpets/24_295077.shtml


This last link has all the various gradings of sore hocks:

http://www.cunivetservice.com/docs/SoreHocks.2013.pdf

I hope something there is helpful :wave:
 
Just thought I'd add .. if your vet is happy for you to use creams in the first instance, then here's a few recommendations ....

Gill (vet at Windelsham) recommends Derbymed SCP Spray:

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Derbymed-SCP-Spray-200ml/productinfo/DERBYMSCP/
Derbymed SCP Spray 200ml is a soothing, antiseptic wound spray that removes excessive moisture from open wounds and aids in the management of cuts, sores and proud flesh.

This cream has analgesic (pain killing) properties:

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/veterinary-s.../healx-soother-plus-topical-cream-30ml-p-7773

This has been recommended by someone on here as very good:

https://vitaltouch.com/product/natalia-baby-bottom-butter-60ml/


Other ideas ….

Flamazine is good, but needs a prescription:

http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/flamazine-1-cream


http://www.smith-nephew.com/canada/products/advanced-wound-management/opsite--spray/

https://www.animeddirect.co.uk/yuca...MI8MDwwfmR2QIVir3tCh00ZwJxEAQYAyABEgJqOPD_BwE
 
Thank you everyone for your kind words and helpful advice. Henry is booked into the vet tomorrow at 6:15 to diagnose. Thank you MM for the cream/spray suggestions- I will propose these to my vet. Having pondered on the problem all night and getting very little sleep, I have provisionally concluded that this may be carpet friction burns as Henry has episodes of zooming round the living room and does so only one way- anti clockwise and as such, he would turn hard on his left foot. I can't feel any swelling so I'll get the vet to check joints and look for any primary issues if there are any. I'll update you all on Wednesday evening. Thank you all again-
Craig x
 
Craig 1965 said:
Thank you everyone for your kind words and helpful advice. Henry is booked into the vet tomorrow at 6:15 to diagnose. Thank you MM for the cream/spray suggestions- I will propose these to my vet. Having pondered on the problem all night and getting very little sleep, I have provisionally concluded that this may be carpet friction burns as Henry has episodes of zooming round the living room and does so only one way- anti clockwise and as such, he would turn hard on his left foot. I can't feel any swelling so I'll get the vet to check joints and look for any primary issues if there are any. I'll update you all on Wednesday evening. Thank you all again-
Craig x
Click to expand...


You're welcome Craig.

Hope the vet visit goes well. You may have found the cause there, sounds plausible.

When my frenchie had sore hocks I made him socks and boots as he wouldn't forego his garden wanderings.
It helped them heal up and stay healed.
 
MightyMax said:
You're welcome Craig.

Hope the vet visit goes well. You may have found the cause there, sounds plausible.

When my frenchie had sore hocks I made him socks and boots as he wouldn't forego his garden wanderings.
It helped them heal up and stay healed.
Click to expand...

Thank you MM. I'm quite a worry-puss person and I tend to look on the bleaker side of something rather than the positive. Having watched Georgina go through a similar ailment and treating her for almost 10 months, I initially feared the worst with Henry. But as he's really not overweight at all, and he's still extremely active and having a room-zoom, I kind of felt that this could be more friction related. I'll put my thoughts to the vet on Wednesday and hopefully we'll get some indication of the vets thoughts and have some medication/cream etc. Unfortunately I'll be a worry puss for the next 24 hours because my rabbits mean the world to me. Will update you all tomorrow. And thank you all again. Craig x
 
Craig 1965 said:
Thank you MM. I'm quite a worry-puss person and I tend to look on the bleaker side of something rather than the positive. Having watched Georgina go through a similar ailment and treating her for almost 10 months, I initially feared the worst with Henry. But as he's really not overweight at all, and he's still extremely active and having a room-zoom, I kind of felt that this could be more friction related. I'll put my thoughts to the vet on Wednesday and hopefully we'll get some indication of the vets thoughts and have some medication/cream etc. Unfortunately I'll be a worry puss for the next 24 hours because my rabbits mean the world to me. Will update you all tomorrow. And thank you all again. Craig x
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Nooo don't look on the bleaker side! I have got used to these things and although my rabbits mean the world to me, I believe I will always find a way to solve every issue :)

Perhaps his little feetsies need a break from the friction and then the fur will grow again and protect them x
 
Update on Henry after a visit to the vet. Henry arrived at the vet in a somewhat stressed state - he associates the pet carrier with going somewhere not nice and I guess he kind of likes being at home with us. The vet's initial assessment was pod-something or other, and not the feared bumblefoot. To be fair, I sort of guided her towards that despite a kick in the shin by the O/H who was wanting the vet to do the diagnosis. Vets first question is "where does he live" - so I knew I was on safe ground with this. After a short discussion, she concluded that the 'abrasion' on henry's rear hock was not infected, not swollen and the joints were completely free of inflamation. It was concluded that he has friction burns from tearing round the carpet in zoom mode. The fact that he runs anti-clockwise more or less confirmed the abrasion on his left hock, and there were signs of beginnings on his right hock, only not as bad.
General assessment of his physique was good. She shecked the spine, teeth, ears, hips and no sign of any inflamation or stiffness. She did find Henry rather cute although to be fair, he was scared out of his wits. Weight was 2.25kg which was exactly the same weight as when we last had him at the vets back in March. So no tangible weight difference.
She's prescribed metacam for any pain management. I asked her about the derby spray stuff but she'd never heard of that and wasn't totally sold on the flamzene. She's going to ask a few collegues about any thoughts about what to put on (ie baby booties or similar) so she might call back tomorrow. It was suggested that we try to introduce both buns to the outside hutch - which was the plan I had, I just don't fancy doing it in 30 degrees heat. Plus Lillian has an abject fear of the hutch after having her miscarry there when we got her last autumn. So I've got some work to do. I need to ensure Henry's abrasion doesn't get worse so he's banned from carpet zooms (not sure how I will do that) and we'll keep a check on it daily.
I'll update you all on how things go and thank you again for your well wishes and vibes for Henry.
Craig x
 
Craig 1965 said:
Update on Henry after a visit to the vet. Henry arrived at the vet in a somewhat stressed state - he associates the pet carrier with going somewhere not nice and I guess he kind of likes being at home with us. The vet's initial assessment was pod-something or other, and not the feared bumblefoot. To be fair, I sort of guided her towards that despite a kick in the shin by the O/H who was wanting the vet to do the diagnosis. Vets first question is "where does he live" - so I knew I was on safe ground with this. After a short discussion, she concluded that the 'abrasion' on henry's rear hock was not infected, not swollen and the joints were completely free of inflamation. It was concluded that he has friction burns from tearing round the carpet in zoom mode. The fact that he runs anti-clockwise more or less confirmed the abrasion on his left hock, and there were signs of beginnings on his right hock, only not as bad.
General assessment of his physique was good. She shecked the spine, teeth, ears, hips and no sign of any inflamation or stiffness. She did find Henry rather cute although to be fair, he was scared out of his wits. Weight was 2.25kg which was exactly the same weight as when we last had him at the vets back in March. So no tangible weight difference.
She's prescribed metacam for any pain management. I asked her about the derby spray stuff but she'd never heard of that and wasn't totally sold on the flamzene. She's going to ask a few collegues about any thoughts about what to put on (ie baby booties or similar) so she might call back tomorrow. It was suggested that we try to introduce both buns to the outside hutch - which was the plan I had, I just don't fancy doing it in 30 degrees heat. Plus Lillian has an abject fear of the hutch after having her miscarry there when we got her last autumn. So I've got some work to do. I need to ensure Henry's abrasion doesn't get worse so he's banned from carpet zooms (not sure how I will do that) and we'll keep a check on it daily.
I'll update you all on how things go and thank you again for your well wishes and vibes for Henry.
Craig x
Click to expand...


Aaawww pododermatitis :)

It's also called bumble foot, to be fair:

https://www.petcoach.co/article/pododermatitis-sore-feet-and-hocks-in-rabbits-and-guinea-pi/

I'm glad it's not severe and that the vet found Henry to be cute. Very important!

The DerbyMed spray has been recommended by a really good vet so I wouldn't doubt that's good stuff.

You got the diagnosis right yourself though Craig :)
 
Oh Craig I'm glad it wasn't too bad for Henry bun. Why don't you try laying duvet cover for Henry bun? Why do you want them outside? I'm glad he's ok

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
loobers25 said:
Oh Craig I'm glad it wasn't too bad for Henry bun. Why don't you try laying duvet cover for Henry bun? Why do you want them outside? I'm glad he's ok

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
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Thank you Loobers. I'm not rushing to get the buns outside. In this heat it's not fair. I would like to have them make use of the outside hutch that my bridge buns called home and it would be easier on Henry's feet. It seems that the living room carpet that Henry calls his runway, is causing friction burns and I need to find a way to prevent that. His zoom time needs to be outside but I also need his sore hock to heal to prevent any further problems. I personally like house buns and hope that I can find a way to resolve the indoor carpet issue.
Thank you so much for your kind words and helpful advice.
 
Bless him. No more zooms Henry bun - they are banned. I hope that didn't come across like I was questioning you, was just being a nosey parker.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
Craig 1965 said:
Thank you Loobers. I'm not rushing to get the buns outside. In this heat it's not fair. I would like to have them make use of the outside hutch that my bridge buns called home and it would be easier on Henry's feet. It seems that the living room carpet that Henry calls his runway, is causing friction burns and I need to find a way to prevent that. His zoom time needs to be outside but I also need his sore hock to heal to prevent any further problems. I personally like house buns and hope that I can find a way to resolve the indoor carpet issue.
Thank you so much for your kind words and helpful advice.
Click to expand...

You could cover the carpet area he has access to with cotton sheets/duvet covers. That would provide a less abrasive contact area. To keep the sheets in place you can use strong velcro, or a few building bricks around the edges, or nappy pins (safety pins used for babies nappies) x
 
Jack's-Jane said:
You could cover the carpet area he has access to with cotton sheets/duvet covers. That would provide a less abrasive contact area. To keep the sheets in place you can use strong velcro, or a few building bricks around the edges, or nappy pins (safety pins used for babies nappies) x
Click to expand...

Ah - brilliant advice - thank you so much Jane. Will look to do this over the weekend.
 
Craig 1965 said:
Thank you Loobers. I'm not rushing to get the buns outside. In this heat it's not fair. I would like to have them make use of the outside hutch that my bridge buns called home and it would be easier on Henry's feet. It seems that the living room carpet that Henry calls his runway, is causing friction burns and I need to find a way to prevent that. His zoom time needs to be outside but I also need his sore hock to heal to prevent any further problems. I personally like house buns and hope that I can find a way to resolve the indoor carpet issue.
Thank you so much for your kind words and helpful advice.
Click to expand...


You were right all along Craig :)

Hope my post above was useful - it's so common in rabbits, and particulary house rabbits!
 
It will be pododermatitis, which is just a word for this kind of abrasion. It can be hard to get rid of, as obviously Henry is using his feet all the time, but maybe MightyMax's suggestions about vetbed or cotton sheets will help stop the carpet 'burn'. Hope it clears up soon :thumb:
 
MightyMax said:
Aaawww pododermatitis :)

It's also called bumble foot, to be fair:

https://www.petcoach.co/article/pododermatitis-sore-feet-and-hocks-in-rabbits-and-guinea-pi/

I'm glad it's not severe and that the vet found Henry to be cute. Very important!

The DerbyMed spray has been recommended by a really good vet so I wouldn't doubt that's good stuff.

You got the diagnosis right yourself though Craig :)
Click to expand...

Sorry MM I didn't see your post before replying. Bumblefoot does tend to refer to an infection in the joint though, which Henry doesn't have. It's common in birds, but I've never heard of it in rabbits. Perhaps it's more common in wire cages?
 
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