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Vetergesic - experiences

Sarahbun

Mama Doe
Hello everyone,
My rabbit Rocky suffers from gut stasis from time to time. Since seeing an exotics specialist he's been prescribed Cisapride + Metacam to be taken when he has an episode. This has been working successfully and he's recovered quickly (eating on his own within 2 hours), that is until yesterday.
He'd stopped eating so I took him to the vet to check for blockages etc. to make sure it would be safe to give Cisapride.
The vet gave him metacam, cisapride and then unusually (unusual as the vets on the previous occasions have never done this) injected him with Vetergesic.

It's not a drug I'm familiar with and I wished I'd questioned the vet about as what happened next wasn't ideal. I brought Rocky home and rather than recovering he just sat really still with eyes like saucers. I offered him hay and he tried to eat it but part way through a chomp he fell asleep with his head falling into his hay. I managed to rouse him, but within minutes he was asleep again. He was completely spaced out. As he wasn't eating, hadn't produced droppings and seemed so sleepy I took him back to the vet (by this time it was out of hours). They hospitalised him overnight, syringe feeding and giving him fluids.

Luckily he's making a recovery, he's eaten on his own today and produced droppings. He's still in hospital to make sure he's hydrated and I hope to bring him home tomorrow.

Having googled Vetergesic I'm confused why the vet would give him such a strong painkiller, especially one with side effects listed as nausea, anorexia and disruption to peristalsis. I really think it didn't give the little fella any chance of eating on his own.

I wondered what your experiences have been of this drug with your rabbits and whether it has been helpful with GI stasis?

Thanks

Sarah
 
Nope, not helpful at all. I've had the same experience (or at least my rabbits have!) It's one of the reasons I decided to stop using a local vet practice - they often gave Vetergesic for stasis. I remember one occasion they charged c£200 for an OOH consultation did a blood glucose reading that was 15, dosed Elijah up to the eyeballs with Vetergesic and sent him home. I spent the rest of the night sleeping on the floor next to him not knowing if his state was a symptom or a response to the drugs. They also were in the habit of admitting rabbits for the night and the following day when they were happy with them they'd discharge them but give them a good old dose Veterestic just before they left... that makes no sense at all.

So, no not helpful with stasis as it knocks them out therefore they don't want to eat!!
 
Nope, not helpful at all. I've had the same experience (or at least my rabbits have!) It's one of the reasons I decided to stop using a local vet practice - they often gave Vetergesic for stasis. I remember one occasion they charged c£200 for an OOH consultation did a blood glucose reading that was 15, dosed Elijah up to the eyeballs with Vetergesic and sent him home. I spent the rest of the night sleeping on the floor next to him not knowing if his state was a symptom or a response to the drugs. They also were in the habit of admitting rabbits for the night and the following day when they were happy with them they'd discharge them but give them a good old dose Veterestic just before they left... that makes no sense at all.

So, no not helpful with stasis as it knocks them out therefore they don't want to eat!!

Thanks, this is reassuring, I was hoping the slow recovery this time would be due to the Vetergesic and not something else going on.
 
Same experience here a while back. Vet looked quite shocked when I refused vetergesic. I didn't go back.
 
My boy was given this when he was neutered and oh my I wish he hadn't been.. He wouldn't eat drink move just sat their and stared at the wall looking lost - was terrified by everything and I'm sure this was a bad case (and your bunny seems to be improving which is great) but mine was never the same again :( he lost trust in us and was a totally different animal, very aggressive, I took him back to the vets several times and my vet said he's seen that reaction from the drug in a dog and his own cat before - it's essentially a really bad trip - anyway my boys never recovered but I've manged to get him to trust me again he's different but isn't causing serious injuries anymore so I'm happy with his progress :)

Really hope you bunny picks up and that the effects wear off fast - my vet said that mine should never have that drug again, so may be best if you do the same going forward xx

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 
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My vets don't routinely use it for rabbits for the reasons already given, but they do sometimes give it if a short term stronger painkiller is needed. Even though it can cause drowsiness and gut slowdown which isn't ideal as you want your rabbit to eat, uncontrolled pain can stop them from eating too. So sometimes on balance it might be appropriate to give and I guess you never know which animals are going to respond particularly strongly to its sedative effects and which aren't. I've been happy to use it in rabbits occasionally if there is a need for stronger pain relief for a short period of time, coupled with other supportive therapy as necessary. I don't think it's always the 'wrong' thing to do.
 
My vets don't routinely use it for rabbits for the reasons already given, but they do sometimes give it if a short term stronger painkiller is needed. Even though it can cause drowsiness and gut slowdown which isn't ideal as you want your rabbit to eat, uncontrolled pain can stop them from eating too. So sometimes on balance it might be appropriate to give and I guess you never know which animals are going to respond particularly strongly to its sedative effects and which aren't. I've been happy to use it in rabbits occasionally if there is a need for stronger pain relief for a short period of time, coupled with other supportive therapy as necessary. I don't think it's always the 'wrong' thing to do.
I'd agree with this - my other two have had it even after my horrible experience with it and they were fine :)

For gut stasis I probably wouldn't op to have it though because it can make them sleepy... That alone would make me not want to use it for that.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 
Thanks everyone for the replies.
I think in future we'll stick with the tried and trusted method of metacam and cisapride for GI stasis.
I'm not really sure why the vet decided to deviate this time.
 
My old bunny was on buprenorphine (vetergesic) twice daily for arthritis, along with meloxicam and gabapentin. I found injections occasionally made him a bit flat so we opted for the transmucosal route instead which worked beautiful and I was back to having a binkying bunny!

I would say using it for a surgical procedure is definitely a good idea because without good analgesia you’re just waiting for stasis. I’ve also seen it used in stasis cases and it worked beautifully but this was generally along with hospitalisation, IVFT etc.
 
I think in future we'll stick with the tried and trusted method of metacam and cisapride for GI stasis.
I'm not really sure why the vet decided to deviate this time.

I totally get where you're coming from - but it's worth remembering that stasis is a symptom and not a primary cause. So sometimes, if the primary cause of the stasis is severe pain somewhere, a vet could reasonably assess that something stronger than metacam is required while the cause of that pain resolves. While most practices will have fairly standard protocols for things like stasis, vets also have to use their clinical judgement depending on what they find when they examine the animal. Personally I wouldn't flat out refuse it, but it might be appropriate to ask why a particular choice of painkiller has been made for any circumstance.
 
My vets don't routinely use it for rabbits for the reasons already given, but they do sometimes give it if a short term stronger painkiller is needed. Even though it can cause drowsiness and gut slowdown which isn't ideal as you want your rabbit to eat, uncontrolled pain can stop them from eating too. So sometimes on balance it might be appropriate to give and I guess you never know which animals are going to respond particularly strongly to its sedative effects and which aren't. I've been happy to use it in rabbits occasionally if there is a need for stronger pain relief for a short period of time, coupled with other supportive therapy as necessary. I don't think it's always the 'wrong' thing to do.



I totally get where you're coming from - but it's worth remembering that stasis is a symptom and not a primary cause. So sometimes, if the primary cause of the stasis is severe pain somewhere, a vet could reasonably assess that something stronger than metacam is required while the cause of that pain resolves. While most practices will have fairly standard protocols for things like stasis, vets also have to use their clinical judgement depending on what they find when they examine the animal. Personally I wouldn't flat out refuse it, but it might be appropriate to ask why a particular choice of painkiller has been made for any circumstance.

I agree with Santa In certain circumstances a sick Rabbit in my care has been prescribed Vetergesic (Buprenorphine). Some Rabbits have become markedly sedated, others not so. Sometimes the need for rapid acting and strong analgesic control over-rides any potential negative side effects

I hope that Rocky will soon be fully recovered xx
 
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Sorry for the extra question, but is vetergesic also known as buprecare?

Vibes for Rocky xx
 
Hello everyone,
My rabbit Rocky suffers from gut stasis from time to time. Since seeing an exotics specialist he's been prescribed Cisapride + Metacam to be taken when he has an episode. This has been working successfully and he's recovered quickly (eating on his own within 2 hours), that is until yesterday.
He'd stopped eating so I took him to the vet to check for blockages etc. to make sure it would be safe to give Cisapride.
The vet gave him metacam, cisapride and then unusually (unusual as the vets on the previous occasions have never done this) injected him with Vetergesic.

It's not a drug I'm familiar with and I wished I'd questioned the vet about as what happened next wasn't ideal. I brought Rocky home and rather than recovering he just sat really still with eyes like saucers. I offered him hay and he tried to eat it but part way through a chomp he fell asleep with his head falling into his hay. I managed to rouse him, but within minutes he was asleep again. He was completely spaced out. As he wasn't eating, hadn't produced droppings and seemed so sleepy I took him back to the vet (by this time it was out of hours). They hospitalised him overnight, syringe feeding and giving him fluids.

Luckily he's making a recovery, he's eaten on his own today and produced droppings. He's still in hospital to make sure he's hydrated and I hope to bring him home tomorrow.

Having googled Vetergesic I'm confused why the vet would give him such a strong painkiller, especially one with side effects listed as nausea, anorexia and disruption to peristalsis. I really think it didn't give the little fella any chance of eating on his own.

I wondered what your experiences have been of this drug with your rabbits and whether it has been helpful with GI stasis?

Thanks

Sarah


Good vibes for Rocky, Sarah!

It would appear Vetergesic can be a two-edged sword. Luckily my vet has found a way around the side effects <phew> though it certainly has it's place in vet medicine :thumb:
 
Yep they are both buprenorphine

Hope you dont mind me giving the heads up on a previous informative post you made re Buprenorphine, it could prove to be useful for others. Always good to have input from a qualified VN :D

I had an arthritic bunny on buprenorphine trans-mucosally as I found the injections far too sedating. In the end arthritic pain was managed incredibly well for us with buprenorphine 2-3 times daily, gabapentin 3x daily and meloxicam 2x daily
 
Ive never been given Vetergesic for pain for my bunnies-not to say my vet wouldn't use it for quick,effective pain relief.For particularly difficult to control pain,a bunny of mine had Tramadol and, for a short while, Morphine patches when the pain was quite bad.

Ive had Vetergesic (orally) for my cat after mouth surgery.I think it stung abit and tasted vile so we struggled abit to give it to her.She was quite woozy for awhile after each dose.I wasn't too keen on it for those reasons but it did help her which was the main thing.
 
I totally get where you're coming from - but it's worth remembering that stasis is a symptom and not a primary cause. So sometimes, if the primary cause of the stasis is severe pain somewhere, a vet could reasonably assess that something stronger than metacam is required while the cause of that pain resolves. While most practices will have fairly standard protocols for things like stasis, vets also have to use their clinical judgement depending on what they find when they examine the animal. Personally I wouldn't flat out refuse it, but it might be appropriate to ask why a particular choice of painkiller has been made for any circumstance.

Thanks, yes definitely. I think that's where things went wrong this time. I didn't ask enough questions and should have established the impact (drowsiness) that the Vetergesic can have. I spoke with the vet today when I picked Rocky up and asked about why she'd opted for vetergesic. Her answer was that she thought he needed extra pain relief.
 
I agree with Santa In certain circumstances a sick Rabbit in my care has been prescribed Vetergesic (Buprenorphine). Some Rabbits have become markedly sedated, others not so. Sometimes the need for rapid acting and strong analgesic control over-rides any potential negative side effects

I hope that Rocky will soon be fully recovered xx
Thanks Jane
I picked him up from the vets today, He'd bitten her earlier when she'd checked him out :shock: He's feeling much better and is at home now.
 
Good vibes for Rocky, Sarah!

It would appear Vetergesic can be a two-edged sword. Luckily my vet has found a way around the side effects <phew> though it certainly has it's place in vet medicine :thumb:

Thank you MM, Rocky says thank you too, he's feeling much better, so much so that he bit the vet shortly before being discharged from vet hospital :shock: He's never done anything like that before, he's normally a placid little fella. He's now home, enjoying head rubs and eating hay.
 
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