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Bladder Sludge, Urine Scalding & Calcium Problems

anz07

New Kit
Hello all,

My five year old male lop has been suffering from chronic bladder sludge for the past few months. About 9 months ago, he went off his food (which he had eaten since he was a baby) because they changed the size of the pellets...this was enough to turn him away as he's very fussy! Since then, I've been trying him on lots of other foods - some he ate and some he refused to eat. In typical bun form, he decided he liked the sugary muesli best and developed a urine infection a couple of months after staying on this mix.

Long story short, he had antibiotics which resolved the first infection and the vet then put him on a diet of vegetables. He was having celery, kale and mint leaves every day, alongside hay and a more hay-based pellet diet (although he ignored the pellets most of the time). All was going well and he appeared very healthy but then developed another urine infection a month later which was much worse. We had numerous tests done to rule out many different things and the vet came to believe he had bladder stones. He had an operation where they realised it was bladder sludge and crystalised calcium/food particles. They flushed out his bladder and he pulled through. After this, all his fur grew back and he was back to his usual self in a couple of weeks which was fantastic. I knew the problem was likely to reoccur but was heartbroken when it started up again recently (less than a month after his op). My vet put him on antibiotics again and we discussed options...I was also told that euthanasia was on the table. After all this (sorry, this is a very long and tedious story!) I was referred to a specialist in London who was very helpful. She inferred that the underlying issue is his weight. He's not obese by any means but is a little bit over what his weight should be and, as he is an indoor rabbit, he has quite a sedentary lifestyle. So I had to leave him at the specialist vet clinic for the last 3 days where they had him on fluids and also diagnosed him with eye problems and ear mites (all of which he is being treated for). He seemed to come out with more problems than what he went in with!

I brought him home yesterday after paying another £600 bill (the whole process so far has cost in excess of £2,000). He looks very run down and isn't responding much. The vet said this was something that we could 'manage' over time as oppose to 'cure' completely but she seemed positive and said euthanasia should never have been recommended. But, all in all, I'm increasingly heartbroken at seeing my bun with red raw skin because of the scalding and tired of having to try and stay positive in light of him looking utterly miserable. That said, I will do anything I can to keep him around for as long as possible, providing he's not in pain. He's on pain killer, antibiotics, eye drops and skin cream - all of which are incredibly difficult to administer considering I work full-time and some of this needs to be applied 3 times a day.

Anyway, after all that information, can anybody help me?! Is there any formula that has worked for anyone who has been in a similar situation to me? I am now feeding him low calcium veg (cucumbers and cauliflower) and lots of hay. He doesn't have a companion but has lots of attention from the 4 family members living in the house with him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 
Hello all,

My five year old male lop has been suffering from chronic bladder sludge for the past few months. About 9 months ago, he went off his food (which he had eaten since he was a baby) because they changed the size of the pellets...this was enough to turn him away as he's very fussy! Since then, I've been trying him on lots of other foods - some he ate and some he refused to eat. In typical bun form, he decided he liked the sugary muesli best and developed a urine infection a couple of months after staying on this mix.

Long story short, he had antibiotics which resolved the first infection and the vet then put him on a diet of vegetables. He was having celery, kale and mint leaves every day, alongside hay and a more hay-based pellet diet (although he ignored the pellets most of the time). All was going well and he appeared very healthy but then developed another urine infection a month later which was much worse. We had numerous tests done to rule out many different things and the vet came to believe he had bladder stones. He had an operation where they realised it was bladder sludge and crystalised calcium/food particles. They flushed out his bladder and he pulled through. After this, all his fur grew back and he was back to his usual self in a couple of weeks which was fantastic. I knew the problem was likely to reoccur but was heartbroken when it started up again recently (less than a month after his op). My vet put him on antibiotics again and we discussed options...I was also told that euthanasia was on the table. After all this (sorry, this is a very long and tedious story!) I was referred to a specialist in London who was very helpful. She inferred that the underlying issue is his weight. He's not obese by any means but is a little bit over what his weight should be and, as he is an indoor rabbit, he has quite a sedentary lifestyle. So I had to leave him at the specialist vet clinic for the last 3 days where they had him on fluids and also diagnosed him with eye problems and ear mites (all of which he is being treated for). He seemed to come out with more problems than what he went in with!

I brought him home yesterday after paying another £600 bill (the whole process so far has cost in excess of £2,000). He looks very run down and isn't responding much. The vet said this was something that we could 'manage' over time as oppose to 'cure' completely but she seemed positive and said euthanasia should never have been recommended. But, all in all, I'm increasingly heartbroken at seeing my bun with red raw skin because of the scalding and tired of having to try and stay positive in light of him looking utterly miserable. That said, I will do anything I can to keep him around for as long as possible, providing he's not in pain. He's on pain killer, antibiotics, eye drops and skin cream - all of which are incredibly difficult to administer considering I work full-time and some of this needs to be applied 3 times a day.

Anyway, after all that information, can anybody help me?! Is there any formula that has worked for anyone who has been in a similar situation to me? I am now feeding him low calcium veg (cucumbers and cauliflower) and lots of hay. He doesn't have a companion but has lots of attention from the 4 family members living in the house with him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Hi there and welcome to the forum :wave:

Sedentary rabbits do have this problem sometimes.

One of the main things to address (and vets will agree with this) is to give low calcium water. You can research which has the lowest calcium and it might mean buying bottled water if you don't have a filter.

There are several ways you can tackle the issue of bladder sludge ....

As you know, fluids are important, and your vet can always give sub-cut fluids for her (you can even learn how to do these yourself at home). That will certainly help to flush out her bladder.

You can try flavouring the water to encourage drinking, and this can work for some rabbits, but for others the addition of Avipro (a probiotic) will help encourage them to drink more. Water in a bowl rather than a bottle, and washing the veggies and leaving them wet to increase fluid intake. For this reason, grass is often more helpful than hay.


http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/further-reading/calcium-reading-case-study/



But by far the most useful stuff I've found is to switch my rabbits to eating much more 'forage' and free food than supermarket veg. The pellets you feed will also contribute to the problem, so you have to watch the quantity and calcium content.

Have a look here for foraging ideas:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/foraging

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits


Frances Harcourt Brown is a retired rabbit specialist, and she has some very useful papers on her website:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view
(click at the bottom for a PDF form of the article)

There's also a little book by Twigs Way on foraging which you can buy at the RWAF shop :)

Harcourt Brown's view is ...

"It can be seen from this table that it would be easy to ingest a high amount of calcium by eating a lot of 'low calcium' nuggets or pellets but almost impossible to ingest too much calcium from 'high calcium veggies', such as watercress or kale."


And as you already know - Metacam is important as the crystals in the urine can be very painful.
 
Hello all,

My five year old male lop has been suffering from chronic bladder sludge for the past few months. About 9 months ago, he went off his food (which he had eaten since he was a baby) because they changed the size of the pellets...this was enough to turn him away as he's very fussy! Since then, I've been trying him on lots of other foods - some he ate and some he refused to eat. In typical bun form, he decided he liked the sugary muesli best and developed a urine infection a couple of months after staying on this mix.

Long story short, he had antibiotics which resolved the first infection and the vet then put him on a diet of vegetables. He was having celery, kale and mint leaves every day, alongside hay and a more hay-based pellet diet (although he ignored the pellets most of the time). All was going well and he appeared very healthy but then developed another urine infection a month later which was much worse. We had numerous tests done to rule out many different things and the vet came to believe he had bladder stones. He had an operation where they realised it was bladder sludge and crystalised calcium/food particles. They flushed out his bladder and he pulled through. After this, all his fur grew back and he was back to his usual self in a couple of weeks which was fantastic. I knew the problem was likely to reoccur but was heartbroken when it started up again recently (less than a month after his op). My vet put him on antibiotics again and we discussed options...I was also told that euthanasia was on the table. After all this (sorry, this is a very long and tedious story!) I was referred to a specialist in London who was very helpful. She inferred that the underlying issue is his weight. He's not obese by any means but is a little bit over what his weight should be and, as he is an indoor rabbit, he has quite a sedentary lifestyle. So I had to leave him at the specialist vet clinic for the last 3 days where they had him on fluids and also diagnosed him with eye problems and ear mites (all of which he is being treated for). He seemed to come out with more problems than what he went in with!

I brought him home yesterday after paying another £600 bill (the whole process so far has cost in excess of £2,000). He looks very run down and isn't responding much. The vet said this was something that we could 'manage' over time as oppose to 'cure' completely but she seemed positive and said euthanasia should never have been recommended. But, all in all, I'm increasingly heartbroken at seeing my bun with red raw skin because of the scalding and tired of having to try and stay positive in light of him looking utterly miserable. That said, I will do anything I can to keep him around for as long as possible, providing he's not in pain. He's on pain killer, antibiotics, eye drops and skin cream - all of which are incredibly difficult to administer considering I work full-time and some of this needs to be applied 3 times a day.

Anyway, after all that information, can anybody help me?! Is there any formula that has worked for anyone who has been in a similar situation to me? I am now feeding him low calcium veg (cucumbers and cauliflower) and lots of hay. He doesn't have a companion but has lots of attention from the 4 family members living in the house with him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

It may help if you could try to get him to be more active. Exercise will help with regards to his weight and also it is likely to be beneficial as far as his chronic bladder sludge problems are concerned.

Shimmer has provided you with some useful links about Diet. If you are going to continue to feed him a small amount of concentrated feed (pellet feed) then one made specifically for Rabbits with Urinary Tract problems may be worth a try

https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Vetcare...ZYBTWoC_EkHP3O5P28mDHhj2vC1y0rCgaAqJ3EALw_wcB

Did the Exotics Vet give you any specific advice about a care plan for the longterm ?

These links may be useful to take a look at

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-health/further-reading/urolithiasis/

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/HypercalciuriaRabbits.htm

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...MAQ#v=onepage&q=rabbit hypercalciuria&f=false

http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/diet-lowcalcium.asp


And a couple of radiographic images, incase you are interested

iS5B0TH.jpg


wJkQZpQ.jpg


This link provides some tips on managing urine scald

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/urine-scald.html
 
Well I knew this recent one wasn't the same as one you've recommended in the past.
I have trouble keeping up with you and your bottled water :lol:

:lol:

Deeside is still the lowest, but it's only a bit lower, and it's hard to find (Waitrose and Ocado only, if it's even in stock). Another decent alternative is Volvic.
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your helpful advice - very kind of you. I'm afraid I have tried all your suggestions (sorry!) barring the water which I will get on to. I had dried herbs delivered today (dandelion, strawberry leaves and nettle leaves). Hoover (the bun) seems to like them but only if I put them in front of his mouth. He is eating some grass which I've been spraying with water which is good but his appetite is far less than it usually would be. He is barely moving and just sits looking at the wall throughout the day. I feel like he has come back from the vets more traumatised than before he went in. Do you think the change of environment has been very disturbing for him? He was away for 3 days in total.

I'll keep you all updated. Trying to be patient and stay hopeful but my heart breaks when I see him looking so miserable. :cry:
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your helpful advice - very kind of you. I'm afraid I have tried all your suggestions (sorry!) barring the water which I will get on to. I had dried herbs delivered today (dandelion, strawberry leaves and nettle leaves). Hoover (the bun) seems to like them but only if I put them in front of his mouth. He is eating some grass which I've been spraying with water which is good but his appetite is far less than it usually would be. He is barely moving and just sits looking at the wall throughout the day. I feel like he has come back from the vets more traumatised than before he went in. Do you think the change of environment has been very disturbing for him? He was away for 3 days in total.

I'll keep you all updated. Trying to be patient and stay hopeful but my heart breaks when I see him looking so miserable. :cry:

It may be partly due to stress, but he could be in pain. His analgesic cover may need to be reviewed so I'd give the Vet a call about this ASAP today.

Is Hoover passing urine OK at the moment ? No spotting and/or straining ?

Did the Exotics Vet run a full blood profile ?
 
I had a rabbit with chronic bladder sludge problems. My vet's theory was that he didn't fully empty his bladder when urinating therefore only the 'clear' urine was emptied out and the sediment stayed and built up over time. Given this, she expressed his bladder ever 5 weeks or so. He was also on long-term diuretic. He did well on this regime for about 3 years. He eventually had to have treatment for kidney stone but he had underlying EC so the daily Metacam and Furosemide may not have had any adverse effect on his kidneys. Even after he had a kidney removed he carried on with this treatment regime. He remained really well and happy for nearly 2 further years.
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your helpful advice - very kind of you. I'm afraid I have tried all your suggestions (sorry!) barring the water which I will get on to. I had dried herbs delivered today (dandelion, strawberry leaves and nettle leaves). Hoover (the bun) seems to like them but only if I put them in front of his mouth. He is eating some grass which I've been spraying with water which is good but his appetite is far less than it usually would be. He is barely moving and just sits looking at the wall throughout the day. I feel like he has come back from the vets more traumatised than before he went in. Do you think the change of environment has been very disturbing for him? He was away for 3 days in total.

I'll keep you all updated. Trying to be patient and stay hopeful but my heart breaks when I see him looking so miserable. :cry:


Hi there :wave:

You're really welcome :)

I am sorry that Hoover has come back from the vet like this.

Can you look on your vet receipt (or ask reception) whether he was given Vetergesic/Buprenorphine analgesia whilst at the vet? These can make a rabbit sleepy and 'spaced out' for a while.

I think it may also be a good idea to get the vet to run a full blood profile on Hoover to see how the kidneys are functioning, if you haven't already done that.

Also regards the water, I know it may seem a small point, but it's really important as I think vets are beginning to realise now :)
 
I had a rabbit with chronic bladder sludge problems. My vet's theory was that he didn't fully empty his bladder when urinating therefore only the 'clear' urine was emptied out and the sediment stayed and built up over time. Given this, she expressed his bladder ever 5 weeks or so. He was also on long-term diuretic. He did well on this regime for about 3 years. He eventually had to have treatment for kidney stone but he had underlying EC so the daily Metacam and Furosemide may not have had any adverse effect on his kidneys. Even after he had a kidney removed he carried on with this treatment regime. He remained really well and happy for nearly 2 further years.

I have encountered this scenario in some of my previous Rabbits. It has been suggested that the damage EC can do to the CNS can effect the functioning of the bladder emptying mechanism.

All of the Rabbits I had who exhibited bladder emptying problems all had a history of 'active' EC in their previous homes x
 
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your helpful advice - very kind of you. I'm afraid I have tried all your suggestions (sorry!) barring the water which I will get on to. I had dried herbs delivered today (dandelion, strawberry leaves and nettle leaves). Hoover (the bun) seems to like them but only if I put them in front of his mouth. He is eating some grass which I've been spraying with water which is good but his appetite is far less than it usually would be. He is barely moving and just sits looking at the wall throughout the day. I feel like he has come back from the vets more traumatised than before he went in. Do you think the change of environment has been very disturbing for him? He was away for 3 days in total.

I'll keep you all updated. Trying to be patient and stay hopeful but my heart breaks when I see him looking so miserable. :cry:


Hugs for you xx
 
Thank you everyone for your further advice. :D

Hoover has passed urine but seems to be straining when he is sitting still (which is 99% of the time). He keeps arching his back and pushing on his feet. He's on 1ml of Metacam twice a day, alongside 0.7ml of Sulfatrim (antibiotic) twice a day. He is also having F10 ointment for his sore skin and Isathal (antibiotic eye drops).

I hadn't been informed by the vet that he'd been given Vetergesic/Buprenorphine analgesia but I might ring and check tomorrow if there's still no improvement. He is eating some grass and the occasional small bit of vegetable. Perhaps he'll start to pick up in a couple of days once he's fully settled...that's my hope anyway. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again! :wave:
 
Thank you everyone for your further advice. :D

Hoover has passed urine but seems to be straining when he is sitting still (which is 99% of the time). He keeps arching his back and pushing on his feet. He's on 1ml of Metacam twice a day, alongside 0.7ml of Sulfatrim (antibiotic) twice a day. He is also having F10 ointment for his sore skin and Isathal (antibiotic eye drops).

I hadn't been informed by the vet that he'd been given Vetergesic/Buprenorphine analgesia but I might ring and check tomorrow if there's still no improvement. He is eating some grass and the occasional small bit of vegetable. Perhaps he'll start to pick up in a couple of days once he's fully settled...that's my hope anyway. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks again! :wave:

It may be that he is having urethral spasms which are very painful. If he is straining a lot then personally I would want to speak with a Vet this evening. Hoover may require re-admitting and/or additional medication x
 
I just spoke with the vet. The good news is that his e cuniculi test has come back all clear so at least we are able to rule that out. The vet is sending me some gabapentin (if I'm spelling that right!) which is a stronger pain killer. I'll be keeping in regular contact with the vet in the coming days and weeks too so hopefully this will help calm my nerves. They have been fantastic, I just wish I could give them better news!

Thank you again everyone :D
 
I just spoke with the vet. The good news is that his e cuniculi test has come back all clear so at least we are able to rule that out. The vet is sending me some gabapentin (if I'm spelling that right!) which is a stronger pain killer. I'll be keeping in regular contact with the vet in the coming days and weeks too so hopefully this will help calm my nerves. They have been fantastic, I just wish I could give them better news!

Thank you again everyone :D

I am glad you spoke with the Vet and I really hope the additional medication helps xx
 
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