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Can RVHD11 vaccinated bun catch disease

hartleyhare

Warren Scout
This afternoon, I discovered Rubi was seriously ill and before I could call the emergency vet she died. I noticed she was very bloated and her nostrils were blocked. I was attempting to clean her nostrils when she died. She had not been unwell at all.

Two or three weeks ago ( I can't remember exact date ) we visited the rabbit rescue on the island to donate some food. Some of you may remember that I have mentioned this rescue before _ although I haven't been on here for awhile - and what goes on there. During conversation she mentioned that a few months previously she lost a few buns to RVHD11. I did not see the buns whilst we were at the rescue or go into the out building where they are kept. Vaccinations at the rescue are hit and miss, mostly miss. I have paid for buns to be vaccinated in the past. I don't think her current buns have been vaccinated.

As I stated Rubi has been fine, no obvious sign of anything wrong. I am so worried that we might have brought something back from this rescue and I could lose my remaining buns.
 
This afternoon, I discovered Rubi was seriously ill and before I could call the emergency vet she died. I noticed she was very bloated and her nostrils were blocked. I was attempting to clean her nostrils when she died. She had not been unwell at all.

Two or three weeks ago ( I can't remember exact date ) we visited the rabbit rescue on the island to donate some food. Some of you may remember that I have mentioned this rescue before _ although I haven't been on here for awhile - and what goes on there. During conversation she mentioned that a few months previously she lost a few buns to RVHD11. I did not see the buns whilst we were at the rescue or go into the out building where they are kept. Vaccinations at the rescue are hit and miss, mostly miss. I have paid for buns to be vaccinated in the past. I don't think her current buns have been vaccinated.

As I stated Rubi has been fine, no obvious sign of anything wrong. I am so worried that we might have brought something back from this rescue and I could lose my remaining buns.


Hi there, it's lovely to see you again.

But I am so very sorry to hear about Rubi. That's just terrible :(

Yes, I remember our conversations about the work you did for the rescue, and all those details ....

To be honest, no vaccine is 100% foolproof. There are always vaccine failures, usually associated with vaccinating a rabbit that isn't in tip top condition and so the vaccine doesn't 'take'. My instinct in your case would be to say that Rubi died of some other cause, than RHD2. But of course unless a post mortem is carried out, there's no way of knowing.


You could perhaps take a look here, and see whether this is something you might want to participate in. I can understand if not:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/vets/sudden-or-unexpected-death-investigation-1

Frances Harcourt Brown said on Facebook on 26th Sept 2017 regarding vaccine failure ...

Yes, I have heard of some cases, either directly by e-mail or through the online survey about the origin of RHD outbreaks. It is a concern. Any vaccine is not 100% because it depends on the animal developing an immune response and some vaccines are better than others. However, I think the vaccine breakdowns are one of the reasons that Filavie wish to be involved. It means that if there are any vaccinated rabbits that die from RHDV2 in the investigation, they will have the virus that caused it and will be able to identify the strain. They will also have tissue from rabbits that didn't die from RHD so we may be able to find out if there are carriers. Filavie do want to know the vaccination details when the tissue is submitted but they won't have the histopathology results at that point. Histopathology have proved to be diagnostic so far.
 
Both her and Hartley had the RVHD11 vaccination on 31/1/17 and I actually have an appointment already booked for January 2018 for the booster. I did not know the rescue had a RVHD11 outbreak until I got there, I would not have gone there or just handed food over the gate. I think they have lost buns to Mxyi too. I wrote about my recent visit on another forum ( non rabbit ) and although I gave the watered down version I did mention the issues with bacterial and viral infections and general lack of good hygiene practises. I was ( politely ) advised to stay well away from this place.

I will have a read of the link tomorrow, not in right frame of mind at present. Thank you for the reply MightyMax
 
Both her and Hartley had the RVHD11 vaccination on 31/1/17 and I actually have an appointment already booked for January 2018 for the booster. I did not know the rescue had a RVHD11 outbreak until I got there, I would not have gone there or just handed food over the gate. I think they have lost buns to Mxyi too. I wrote about my recent visit on another forum ( non rabbit ) and although I gave the watered down version I did mention the issues with bacterial and viral infections and general lack of good hygiene practises. I was ( politely ) advised to stay well away from this place.

I will have a read of the link tomorrow, not in right frame of mind at present. Thank you for the reply MightyMax


You are welcome :)

The vaccine is tested for 13 months duration of immunity.

I hope you're OK x
 
Oh I'm so very sorry to hear this :( While no vaccine is ever 100%, the entire reason for giving it is so that it protects your rabbits if they come into contact with the virus, so while it's not impossible, it's less likely to be RHD and more likely to be another reason. The incubation period is up to 9 days so if you went 2-3 weeks ago, that's too long ago for you to have brought it home to your rabbits. It's slightly possible that you brought it home and then it took a week or so longer to get around your house to the rabbit, but again, especially given their vaccination status, it's unlikely.

Frances Harcourt-Brown talks about sudden and unexplained death on this page here and gives a list of some of the main possible causes of such a death:https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/sudden-or-unexpected-death

Ultimately, without a post mortem it's impossible to say for certain, but it doesn't sound the most likely possibility by a long way. I hope all your other bunnies remain well xxx
 
The other buns seem ok - at the moment. I had a read of the links.
I have put the single mattress on floor next to H's crate. I don't want him to sleep alone. He has that angry, hurt, confused look in his eyes ( I'm sure many of you will know that look ) and he is very quiet. At least he is eating.

I have given some thought to the future. The only other rabbit rescues around here are in Conwy and Flintshire. Conwy is the RSPCA. They are too far away for H to make the car journey to meet prospective wifeybuns. I could go and choose someone, but he may not like her and a home check might be an issue as we are not local. I'm guessing the rescues would take the bun back if need be. Pets at Home often have female buns, but they will not allow H to meet anyone first and they won't take the bun back ( I asked about another of my buns when she was looking ).

I could take H to the rescue here, but there is a risk to him by doing so and potentially to my other two buns. The advantage is he can choose who he wants to be with. The buns at the rescue are the most deserving of a nice home given the conditions. Not sure I want to take the risk though.
 
The other buns seem ok - at the moment. I had a read of the links.
I have put the single mattress on floor next to H's crate. I don't want him to sleep alone. He has that angry, hurt, confused look in his eyes ( I'm sure many of you will know that look ) and he is very quiet. At least he is eating.

I have given some thought to the future. The only other rabbit rescues around here are in Conwy and Flintshire. Conwy is the RSPCA. They are too far away for H to make the car journey to meet prospective wifeybuns. I could go and choose someone, but he may not like her and a home check might be an issue as we are not local. I'm guessing the rescues would take the bun back if need be. Pets at Home often have female buns, but they will not allow H to meet anyone first and they won't take the bun back ( I asked about another of my buns when she was looking ).

I could take H to the rescue here, but there is a risk to him by doing so and potentially to my other two buns. The advantage is he can choose who he wants to be with. The buns at the rescue are the most deserving of a nice home given the conditions. Not sure I want to take the risk though.


I'm so sorry, it sounds heartbreaking :(

I do understand your reservations about the buns at the near rescue, and as you say, they are most deserving. Didn't one of yours come from there?

If you have somewhere to quarantine, you could pick a bun from there and keep them separate until vaccinated etc. As yours are vaccinated the risk is very small. I have done this before. Of course, there's no way you would take her back, but I have never had a male/female bond to fail, if that's any encouragement! Just make sure they are pretty similar in size.

Do email privately if I can help at all :)
 
Yesterday we visited RSPCA Conwy. I didn't realise the adoption protocol involves so much red tape. :shock: So, after some form filling to answer questions designed to assess my suitability as a potential rabbit owner I was then told that NO homechecks are done. Instead they ask for photos of your set up. Personally I think this could be open to abuse as the photos may not be genuine. Cats and dogs have home checks, so does this mean they have more value perhaps :roll:
I was also told that I could not adopt a rabbit without first taking H to meet the rabbit, so they can ' see how they get on '. I explained to two staff members that H is old, bereaved and the distance is too far for him to travel. He gets very stressed just taking the 20 minute drive to the vet. Round trip would mean almost 3 1/2 hours travelling.

We did see a lovely lion head cross doe, who was found wandering the streets on Rhyl. She is a little scared still ( understandably so ) but will no doubt bloom in the right kind of home. She resisted the carer picking her up but let me pick her up without any objections. I'm not sure how she would sit with H though. He had a bad experience with a lionhead years ago. She absolutely terrorized him and I had to return her to the rescue. He then met Rubi, who he fell in love with straight away.

There is another bun, who has been placed in a foster home as she was so unhappy living at the shelter. She has bloomed at the foster home. We asked if we could visit her as the foster home is in Caernarfon, just up the road from Anglesey. Also, good to see how she behaves in a home environment. Told no, not possible, rules say the rabbit has to be brought back to the shelter to meet H.:roll:.


We also met the most wonderful little dwarf lop. Upon spotting us he immediately began trying to elicit attention from us. He is very much like my beloved Theo, who I lost last year. We would have adopted him there and then ( not to live with H, but just because he is so gorgeous and he could have a nice home with us ). Alas, we were told its not possible to adopt him as he is part of a cruelty case which is still ongoing. The rabbit doesn't appear to have suffered much, looks in very good shape, but we were told the case could be against another animal but all animals would have been removed. Upon asking the carer we were told she didn't know when the case was going to court and that any animal that's part of a case cannot be rehomed. Also, if the accused don't show up in court ( which is common apparently ) this further delays the animal/s being rehomed.

So, no progress was made yesterday, we both felt it was a waste of time. And, the rabbits are not vaccinated against RVHD11 either.
 
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I'm sorry about your experience at the RSPCA rescue. I'm not sure whether the protocol for adopting rabbits from the RSPCA is the same throughout the UK. I've been looking on the RSPCA search site for a friend or friends for my bereaved buck and I haven't noticed the rule that the existing rabbit needs to be taken to the rescue first. I hope this varies from branch to branch, because I would not take my rabbit on a long journey to the rescue either. I suspected that RSPCA rabbits might not have had the RHD2 vacc.

I can see both sides of all of the checks and rules that are in place for rescues, although if you are wanting to adopt it can become quite frustrating. Regarding home checks v photos, I adopted my previous quad after forwarding photos of accommodation. I would like to think that an in-depth chat with the person wanting to adopt would also be useful for a rescue.

I wish you well in your search for a friend for H.
 
I'm sorry about your experience at the RSPCA rescue. I'm not sure whether the protocol for adopting rabbits from the RSPCA is the same throughout the UK. I've been looking on the RSPCA search site for a friend or friends for my bereaved buck and I haven't noticed the rule that the existing rabbit needs to be taken to the rescue first. I hope this varies from branch to branch, because I would not take my rabbit on a long journey to the rescue either. I suspected that RSPCA rabbits might not have had the RHD2 vacc.

I can see both sides of all of the checks and rules that are in place for rescues, although if you are wanting to adopt it can become quite frustrating. Regarding home checks v photos, I adopted my previous quad after forwarding photos of accommodation. I would like to think that an in-depth chat with the person wanting to adopt would also be useful for a rescue.

I wish you well in your search for a friend for H.

Hartley hare I'm so sorry for your loss :cry:

RSPCA branches must differ Omi, because the Manchester and Salford branch where I adopted Frosty from vaccinated all bunnies for RHD2 in addition to the combo vaccine. Home checking differs from branch to branch, years ago when I adopted Dandy and Beano from Macclesfield rspca they got my local branch to homecheck. Manchester and Salford branch asked for photos and room measurements etc, in addition to chatting about care, attitude to animals etc.
 
I'm sorry about your experience at the RSPCA rescue. I'm not sure whether the protocol for adopting rabbits from the RSPCA is the same throughout the UK. I've been looking on the RSPCA search site for a friend or friends for my bereaved buck and I haven't noticed the rule that the existing rabbit needs to be taken to the rescue first. I hope this varies from branch to branch, because I would not take my rabbit on a long journey to the rescue either. I suspected that RSPCA rabbits might not have had the RHD2 vacc.

I can see both sides of all of the checks and rules that are in place for rescues, although if you are wanting to adopt it can become quite frustrating. Regarding home checks v photos, I adopted my previous quad after forwarding photos of accommodation. I would like to think that an in-depth chat with the person wanting to adopt would also be useful for a rescue.

I wish you well in your search for a friend for H.


RSPCA rules and regulations differ from branch to branch. In some, RHD2 isn't given but in others it is before the rabbit leaves.

Hartley - I have a feeling if you wrote to someone 'higher up' in the RSPCA you might get somewhere regardng their rule of bringing the rabbit to the Centre. I personally have never heard of that rule. Was it connected with bonding?

You may have to go to the Head of the Centre before getting a proper overview of what's going on.

Regards the cruelty case - they are always very sad and I have fostered many rabbits from RSPCA cruelty cases. Yes they can take a long time and it's pretty heart-breaking. The rabbit may look fit and well now, but when they came in that may not have been the case. I have plenty of 'before' and 'after' photos where I have been holding the rabbits pending further action.

I hope you can get somewhere here as you've put in a lot of time and effort.

If I can help at all, please PM me. I have worked with, and adopted rabbits from, several RSPCA Centres xx
 
RSPCA rules and regulations differ from branch to branch. In some, RHD2 isn't given but in others it is before the rabbit leaves.

Hartley - I have a feeling if you wrote to someone 'higher up' in the RSPCA you might get somewhere regardng their rule of bringing the rabbit to the Centre. I personally have never heard of that rule. Was it connected with bonding?

You may have to go to the Head of the Centre before getting a proper overview of what's going on.

Regards the cruelty case - they are always very sad and I have fostered many rabbits from RSPCA cruelty cases. Yes they can take a long time and it's pretty heart-breaking. The rabbit may look fit and well now, but when they came in that may not have been the case. I have plenty of 'before' and 'after' photos where I have been holding the rabbits pending further action.

I hope you can get somewhere here as you've put in a lot of time and effort.

If I can help at all, please PM me. I have worked with, and adopted rabbits from, several RSPCA Centres xx

Well it certainly seems that there are different rules for different RSPCA branches. I have been looking more closely at the text written by the branch for new rabbits appearing on the RSPCA search website. Regarding filovac, all of the ones I looked at this morning had given this vaccination, which is good. Regarding taking your existing rabbit to the branch to meet a new friend, the information given varies. However, this was seen for one branch "We are looking to bond him with a neutered female bun. We will take in your rabbit & carry out the bonding at our rescue. The bonding takes about a week & we usually only carry out one bonding per week as it can be time consuming & we like to be able to spend time with the buns to improve the chances of the bonding working." Now of course this could have been badly worded and perhaps should have added "if you wish" or similar.

The search continues......
 
We went to visit another rescue today and met a beautiful doe called Holly. She is an agouti English Spot x French Lop. The rescue are keen for us to take her because we have the space for a large rabbit. My concern is the age difference as she is 5 months and H is 8 1/2. I have had younger and older buns together before but not with such a big gap between ages. I know it's all about personality with buns but I do wonder if she might be a little too boisterous. Before H found Rubi he met a baby bun of around 12 weeks who he didn't much care for. That was 7 years ago and hopefully he has mellowed a little. Does anyone on here have buns with large age differences between them?
 
We went to visit another rescue today and met a beautiful doe called Holly. She is an agouti English Spot x French Lop. The rescue are keen for us to take her because we have the space for a large rabbit. My concern is the age difference as she is 5 months and H is 8 1/2. I have had younger and older buns together before but not with such a big gap between ages. I know it's all about personality with buns but I do wonder if she might be a little too boisterous. Before H found Rubi he met a baby bun of around 12 weeks who he didn't much care for. That was 7 years ago and hopefully he has mellowed a little. Does anyone on here have buns with large age differences between them?


I have had rabbits with 7/8 year differences, and am about to do so again :) But I agree with you about the boisterousness. A 5 month old may well have lots of energy, and so in this case personality is especially important.

I am sorry I haven't replied to your PM yet, but it was so nice to hear from you and I shall do so v soon :)
 
Well done for finding another rabbit, who could be a new friend for H. I wouldn't be too concerned about the age difference and think that character is a more important guide to suitability, but whatever you decide I wish you all the best.
 
I have just bonded a 7 year old and a 5 month old and it was a really easy bond. The new young buck has way more energy and sometimes, when he’s doing laps and binkying around their pen, my older doe does stamp in annoyance. But she’s been bonded with 2 others previously, who sadly died, and I would say that she is happiest in this pairing despite the larger age difference. It is worth noting that young rabbits can sometimes be easier to bond, I’m not saying their relationship will be better long term, just the initial bonding can be easier.

I’ve also had mismatched sizes before and it was fine. Although I will say that if your older bunny has arthritis, it’s not pleasant for them to be humped, particularly by a larger bunny. This comes down to personality, some bunnies are very humpy but others aren’t. But due to her young age I would double-check whether she has been neutered first as I wouldn’t subject him to an unspayed hormonal doe.
 
The new bun is fully vaccinated and spayed. They do home checks too but after chatting to us and asking lots of questions, plus looking at the pics I had taken that day, they decided they could forgo the home check. I think they insist on it with new or less experienced rabbit owners. I have agreed to take Holly next Sat to try her with H for awhile. It was the rescue's suggestion and there is no fee to pay at this point. I do so hope he likes her and she him.
 
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