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Scrappy's Little Helper

Scrappy's Little Helper

Mama Doe
I took the buns to the RVC yesterday for their VHD2 booster as my normal vet still doesn't have it in stock. Unfortunately Snoopy does get upset by vet trips, even more so after this one as it's a longer journey. Snoopy does have a tendency to take his annoyance out on Fudgie after a vet trip and yesterday was no exception. The usual pattern is that there is a bit of tension between them for a few days but they normally sort themselves out after a few days.

Unfortunately they did start fighting this morning [emoji17] I broke it up and they're keeping away from each other for now. Luckily I work from home so I can keep an eye on them. I'm considering I may have to do another rebond from scratch. I think it's best not to do anything for a few days and wait for Snoopy's sulk over the vet visit to pass. My gut instinct is that interfering while he's still in such a foul mood would not be a wise move! Just to make things more complicated my landlord is having the bathroom refurbished and work starts on Monday, estimated to take a couple of weeks. I don't think all that hammering and drilling is going to help matters!

So I think my best tactic in the short term is to leave things as they are, hope they sort themselves out by themselves (I'll have keep my beady eye on them all the time) and if I need to, do a rebond after the bathroom is finished. Just to be on the safe side I'll put a barrier up to separate them if I need to go out as I don't trust them not to start fighting again at the moment.

Sorry for the long winded essay. [emoji15] Some marital guidance vibes would be very much appreciated. TIA.


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Scrappy's Little Helper said:
I took the buns to the RVC yesterday for their VHD2 booster as my normal vet still doesn't have it in stock. Unfortunately Snoopy does get upset by vet trips, even more so after this one as it's a longer journey. Snoopy does have a tendency to take his annoyance out on Fudgie after a vet trip and yesterday was no exception. The usual pattern is that there is a bit of tension between them for a few days but they normally sort themselves out after a few days.

Unfortunately they did start fighting this morning [emoji17] I broke it up and they're keeping away from each other for now. Luckily I work from home so I can keep an eye on them. I'm considering I may have to do another rebond from scratch. I think it's best not to do anything for a few days and wait for Snoopy's sulk over the vet visit to pass. My gut instinct is that interfering while he's still in such a foul mood would not be a wise move! Just to make things more complicated my landlord is having the bathroom refurbished and work starts on Monday, estimated to take a couple of weeks. I don't think all that hammering and drilling is going to help matters!

So I think my best tactic in the short term is to leave things as they are, hope they sort themselves out by themselves (I'll have keep my beady eye on them all the time) and if I need to, do a rebond after the bathroom is finished. Just to be on the safe side I'll put a barrier up to separate them if I need to go out as I don't trust them not to start fighting again at the moment.

Sorry for the long winded essay. [emoji15] Some marital guidance vibes would be very much appreciated. TIA.


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Oh Scrappy I'm sorry to hear this. What a pain!

Now what we really need is a magic formula to keep them bonded whilst Snoopy gets over stressful events. Have you tried anything alternative to help with this?

Sorry to hear about your bathroom too. Well it will be lovely when it's done, but not good timing. Is there anywhere the buns can go for a neutral space to rebond and keep away from the noise? I'm guessing not ...

At least the refurbished bathroom will be an ideal neutral place to rebond when it's done :)
 
Thanks Mighty Max. You're right, it's not great timing with the bathroom! Snoopy never used to be this bad after vet visits. I think the root cause of it is that he was in the carrier with Peanut Butter when he passed away on the way to the vets. I think that must have been a traumatic experience for him which he has to relive every time he has to go in the carrier to go to the vets [emoji17] Unfortunately I don't know any way round it as vet trips are a necessary evil.

I think for future trips I could try adding some pet remedy to see if that helps keep him calm. As mentioned in my first post although there is usually tension after the vet they don't usually fight. There were a lot of aggravating factors yesterday. As well as the longer journey they did get poked and prodded a fair bit by the vet students which probably would have wound him up even more!

I'm going to play it by ear over the next few days and see if they settle. I do find it hard to know what to do for the best when we get home. I'm pretty certain Snoopy just wants to be left alone for a while and Fudgie doesn't seem to quite get that. I'm loathe to force them to stay together while Snoopy is so aggravated as I worry it will make things worse. I'm not sure keeping them completely separate from each other will help either. So I figured the best thing was to keep everything normal but monitor them carefully and it does seem to work out in the end.

Good news is that Fudgie has been up to him a couple of times today and they haven't kicked off. Real test will come tonight and tomorrow morning when they're more active!


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Scrappy's Little Helper said:
Thanks Mighty Max. You're right, it's not great timing with the bathroom! Snoopy never used to be this bad after vet visits. I think the root cause of it is that he was in the carrier with Peanut Butter when he passed away on the way to the vets. I think that must have been a traumatic experience for him which he has to relive every time he has to go in the carrier to go to the vets [emoji17] Unfortunately I don't know any way round it as vet trips are a necessary evil.

I think for future trips I could try adding some pet remedy to see if that helps keep him calm. As mentioned in my first post although there is usually tension after the vet they don't usually fight. There were a lot of aggravating factors yesterday. As well as the longer journey they did get poked and prodded a fair bit by the vet students which probably would have wound him up even more!

I'm going to play it by ear over the next few days and see if they settle. I do find it hard to know what to do for the best when we get home. I'm pretty certain Snoopy just wants to be left alone for a while and Fudgie doesn't seem to quite get that. I'm loathe to force them to stay together while Snoopy is so aggravated as I worry it will make things worse. I'm not sure keeping them completely separate from each other will help either. So I figured the best thing was to keep everything normal but monitor them carefully and it does seem to work out in the end.

Good news is that Fudgie has been up to him a couple of times today and they haven't kicked off. Real test will come tonight and tomorrow morning when they're more active!


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You could try 'desensitisation' techniques. IE putting Snoopy in the Pet Carrier and go sit in the car with him but dont go anywhere. You could offer him some treats whilst he's in the carrier but he will probably refuse them, at first anyway. Initially just sit there for 5 minutes then take him back indoors and continue with your usual routine. Repeat the exercise daily, gradually extending the amount of time you remain in the car. The next step is to start up the car, but remain stationary. After a few times doing this go for a very short drive. It may take a lot of time and patience, but if you can get him to understand that being in the car does not have to end in a Vet visit or a traumatic event and sometimes it does not even mean going anywhere at all Snoopy may get less worked up about it all.
 
Scrappy's Little Helper said:
Thanks Mighty Max. You're right, it's not great timing with the bathroom! Snoopy never used to be this bad after vet visits. I think the root cause of it is that he was in the carrier with Peanut Butter when he passed away on the way to the vets. I think that must have been a traumatic experience for him which he has to relive every time he has to go in the carrier to go to the vets [emoji17] Unfortunately I don't know any way round it as vet trips are a necessary evil.

I think for future trips I could try adding some pet remedy to see if that helps keep him calm. As mentioned in my first post although there is usually tension after the vet they don't usually fight. There were a lot of aggravating factors yesterday. As well as the longer journey they did get poked and prodded a fair bit by the vet students which probably would have wound him up even more!

I'm going to play it by ear over the next few days and see if they settle. I do find it hard to know what to do for the best when we get home. I'm pretty certain Snoopy just wants to be left alone for a while and Fudgie doesn't seem to quite get that. I'm loathe to force them to stay together while Snoopy is so aggravated as I worry it will make things worse. I'm not sure keeping them completely separate from each other will help either. So I figured the best thing was to keep everything normal but monitor them carefully and it does seem to work out in the end.

Good news is that Fudgie has been up to him a couple of times today and they haven't kicked off. Real test will come tonight and tomorrow morning when they're more active!


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You're welcome Scrappy :D

I was musing over your issue, and I have a couple of ideas I might run by you ;)

Separating them is a shame, but you can't let them fight. I know Daphnephoebe uses Pet Remedy and I think she finds it useful.

Hopefully Fudge will bet the peacemaker and all will work out quicker than you had thought.

I'm not sure whether you've a car Scrappy? :wave:
 
Jack's-Jane said:
You could try 'desensitisation' techniques. IE putting Snoopy in the Pet Carrier and go sit in the car with him but dont go anywhere. You could offer him some treats whilst he's in the carrier but he will probably refuse them, at first anyway. Initially just sit there for 5 minutes then take him back indoors and continue with your usual routine. Repeat the exercise daily, gradually extending the amount of time you remain in the car. The next step is to start up the car, but remain stationary. After a few times doing this go for a very short drive. It may take a lot of time and patience, but if you can get him to understand that being in the car does not have to end in a Vet visit or a traumatic event and sometimes it does not even mean going anywhere at all Snoopy may get less worked up about it all.
Click to expand...

This is a brilliant suggestion, I used this technique to get my horse used to travelling. I didn't have a trailer, so relied on other people when I had to move her, for instance when we moved house about 30 miles. I did exactly this, firstly walking her through without stopping (it had a back and side ramp, although I think she probably would have made a side ramp for them if necessary), then standing in the trailer and having a few treats, then standing for longer, etc, until we could shut her in for a few minutes without panic setting in.

Good luck with your efforts, but I think Jane's come up with a winner!
 
Jack's-Jane said:
You could try 'desensitisation' techniques. IE putting Snoopy in the Pet Carrier and go sit in the car with him but dont go anywhere. You could offer him some treats whilst he's in the carrier but he will probably refuse them, at first anyway. Initially just sit there for 5 minutes then take him back indoors and continue with your usual routine. Repeat the exercise daily, gradually extending the amount of time you remain in the car. The next step is to start up the car, but remain stationary. After a few times doing this go for a very short drive. It may take a lot of time and patience, but if you can get him to understand that being in the car does not have to end in a Vet visit or a traumatic event and sometimes it does not even mean going anywhere at all Snoopy may get less worked up about it all.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much Jane. Unfortunately I don't drive so always go the vets by bus (my usual vet is just five minutes away). However I think desensitisation is a brilliant idea. I think I'll have to go really slowly at first. At the moment I only bring the carrier out when I need it. I'm going to try leaving it out all the time with the door open so he can go in and out. I know he'll avoid it at first but I'm hoping over time he'll come to see it as another hide and start to wander in and out. I'll try and then slowly build up from there. I'll put treats in there as well so he starts to have positive associations with it. I know this is going to take a long time with a few steps backwards on the way but it'll be worth it if it works. I really hate it when he gets this upset [emoji17]


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Pippin'sMum said:
This is a brilliant suggestion, I used this technique to get my horse used to travelling. I didn't have a trailer, so relied on other people when I had to move her, for instance when we moved house about 30 miles. I did exactly this, firstly walking her through without stopping (it had a back and side ramp, although I think she probably would have made a side ramp for them if necessary), then standing in the trailer and having a few treats, then standing for longer, etc, until we could shut her in for a few minutes without panic setting in.

Good luck with your efforts, but I think Jane's come up with a winner!
Click to expand...


My friend tried this technique with his cat and it certainly helped to some degree:

http://www.pethealthnetwork.com/cat-health/my-cats-veterinarian/reducing-cat-stress-during-car-rides

To be honest, though I have tried it with stressed out rabbits, I have found that some rabbits tolerate travelling and others just never become used to it. I travel a lot with my rabbits, and I have to make adjustments 'on the journey' which seem to help :)
 
Scrappy's Little Helper said:
Thanks very much Jane. Unfortunately I don't drive so always go the vets by bus (my usual vet is just five minutes away). However I think desensitisation is a brilliant idea. I think I'll have to go really slowly at first. At the moment I only bring the carrier out when I need it. I'm going to try leaving it out all the time with the door open so he can go in and out. I know he'll avoid it at first but I'm hoping over time he'll come to see it as another hide and start to wander in and out. I'll try and then slowly build up from there. I'll put treats in there as well so he starts to have positive associations with it. I know this is going to take a long time with a few steps backwards on the way but it'll be worth it if it works. I really hate it when he gets this upset [emoji17]


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Well there's nothing to be lost from giving it a go :)
 
Scrappy's Little Helper said:
Thanks very much Jane. Unfortunately I don't drive so always go the vets by bus (my usual vet is just five minutes away). However I think desensitisation is a brilliant idea. I think I'll have to go really slowly at first. At the moment I only bring the carrier out when I need it. I'm going to try leaving it out all the time with the door open so he can go in and out. I know he'll avoid it at first but I'm hoping over time he'll come to see it as another hide and start to wander in and out. I'll try and then slowly build up from there. I'll put treats in there as well so he starts to have positive associations with it. I know this is going to take a long time with a few steps backwards on the way but it'll be worth it if it works. I really hate it when he gets this upset [emoji17]


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Yes I thought I remembered you saying this when we met :)
 
In addition to all the helpful posts above, what came to mind was

1- home visits? Could you afford the extra fee for having a vet come to your house?

2- Does Snoopy experience anything physiological as a result (such as 'travel sickness'), that may impact the way he is and feels during and after a trip?

3- is he hyper sensitive to smell for some reason (such as missing another sense) and somehow Fudgie smells different? (even if it's that Fudgie is insecure and is scenting more, for example).
 
Sky-O said:
In addition to all the helpful posts above, what came to mind was

1- home visits? Could you afford the extra fee for having a vet come to your house?

2- Does Snoopy experience anything physiological as a result (such as 'travel sickness'), that may impact the way he is and feels during and after a trip?

3- is he hyper sensitive to smell for some reason (such as missing another sense) and somehow Fudgie smells different? (even if it's that Fudgie is insecure and is scenting more, for example).
Click to expand...

Thanks Sky-O. To be honest I always home visits were only available for people who couldn't get to the vet's (e.g. elderly or disabled) but I'll enquire as to whether that's a possibility if I need it.

It's interesting what you say about Fudgie as she does get extremely stressed at the vet's so much so that the vet's do have difficulty handling her. Interestingly enough she is perfectly fine when she gets home. It could well be possible then that she is scenting more and could be why he's aggressive to her when we get home? If that's the case is there anything more I could do to calm her down as well as trying pet remedy? I don't believe Snoopy is missing any senses: eyesight and hearing are both fine. I also don't think he suffers physically with travel. Up until we lost Peanut Butter he never had any problems travelling to the vet's and was always back to his normal self as soon as we got home.

It seems there could be a few things going on here causing Snoopy to react like this. No wonder he's getting so worked up [emoji17]


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Lopsy likes to take it out on me when he's at the vets. In fact, any human will do :roll: But he's not fussed by the journey, it's the examination he doesn't like! He can be an angel for some things and then kick off suddenly with something else! He travels really well though.

Aboleth, nope, she doesn't do travelling. If she's moving not under her own power she gets really stressed. But she's fine when it's over. She won't stay in the litter tray if I move it, she jumps out, but Lopsy just sits there and goes for a ride.

It's rare there's any rabbit-on-rabbit action :)shock: :lol:) but if Aboleth doesn't get her own way, especially for the Spring Fever six months of the year, she humps Lopsy, and sometimes I find somebun's fur in a clump in a corner :roll: But I'm lucky they take it out on me, not each other! I got thumped at and ignored last time :)

I tried desensitising Aboleth in the carrier, but she won't have it, poor dear. I am lucky the vets is just a few minutes away though :) She was fine if I got them in the carrier and then closed it up, as long as it didn't move anywhere, so I tend to do that with plenty of time before I leave so I'm not super-anxious and having it rub off on them :roll: I'd rather they needed to wee and poo in the carrier (there's tons of food but they have to cope for max. 1hr without water) than have me and them stressed more than necessary :)
 
Scrappy's Little Helper said:
It seems there could be a few things going on here causing Snoopy to react like this. No wonder he's getting so worked up [emoji17]Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This is possibly a silly suggestion (in which case ignore me!) but it could be that the vet themselves could make it easier? I know ours are always really good about making sure to wipe everything down and try and remove the scent of previous patients (particularly cats and dogs) if you take a rabbit in, and a couple will even wear towels/aprons to handle, so that predators can't be smelled on their clothes. Could one of the things bothering Snoopy be previous scents (or dogs/cats in the waiting room, or nearby rooms) which is making him nervous? I remember having to take Monty in when there was a puppy going beserk in one of the rooms - really high pitched barking constantly our entire visit - and he was even more unsettled than usual when we got home. Is there anything your vet could do to try and help eliminate smells etc? (Or do they do so already and I am being inadvertently mean about them?) Sorry if it isn't much use!
 
Monty's Human said:
This is possibly a silly suggestion (in which case ignore me!) but it could be that the vet themselves could make it easier? I know ours are always really good about making sure to wipe everything down and try and remove the scent of previous patients (particularly cats and dogs) if you take a rabbit in, and a couple will even wear towels/aprons to handle, so that predators can't be smelled on their clothes. Could one of the things bothering Snoopy be previous scents (or dogs/cats in the waiting room, or nearby rooms) which is making him nervous? I remember having to take Monty in when there was a puppy going beserk in one of the rooms - really high pitched barking constantly our entire visit - and he was even more unsettled than usual when we got home. Is there anything your vet could do to try and help eliminate smells etc? (Or do they do so already and I am being inadvertently mean about them?) Sorry if it isn't much use!
Click to expand...

Thanks MH, I'm really grateful for any suggestions to make these vet trips easier for them! Actually my usual vet is really good for cleaning down in between consults and she handles the buns really well. The RVC, where we went on Tuesday, is a teaching hospital and after the main vet did the health check they were also examined by a couple of student vets as part of their training. Obviously I don't have an issue with that as they need to get experience in handling and examining the animals. But unfortunately for the buns it meant getting handled by three vets instead of one!


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keletkezes said:
Lopsy likes to take it out on me when he's at the vets. In fact, any human will do :roll: But he's not fussed by the journey, it's the examination he doesn't like! He can be an angel for some things and then kick off suddenly with something else! He travels really well though.

Aboleth, nope, she doesn't do travelling. If she's moving not under her own power she gets really stressed. But she's fine when it's over. She won't stay in the litter tray if I move it, she jumps out, but Lopsy just sits there and goes for a ride.

It's rare there's any rabbit-on-rabbit action :)shock: :lol:) but if Aboleth doesn't get her own way, especially for the Spring Fever six months of the year, she humps Lopsy, and sometimes I find somebun's fur in a clump in a corner :roll: But I'm lucky they take it out on me, not each other! I got thumped at and ignored last time :)

I tried desensitising Aboleth in the carrier, but she won't have it, poor dear. I am lucky the vets is just a few minutes away though :) She was fine if I got them in the carrier and then closed it up, as long as it didn't move anywhere, so I tend to do that with plenty of time before I leave so I'm not super-anxious and having it rub off on them :roll: I'd rather they needed to wee and poo in the carrier (there's tons of food but they have to cope for max. 1hr without water) than have me and them stressed more than necessary :)
Click to expand...

I wish my buns would take it out on me rather than each other! Which is funny as usually Snoopy is quite happy to bite me the rest of the time just for the hell of it!



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The only time my bridge bun Cleo would snuggle and climb up on me was when she was on the vets table,miss the stroppy mare x
 
MightyMax said:
Snoopy needs to attend 'attitude' classes :roll:
Click to expand...

At this moment in time I think they both do!

I thought they were doing quite well yesterday. There was a bit of grunting and lunging but nothing too serious and they were happily eating next to each other. I really thought they were on the way to sorting themselves out. Then Snoopy decided to come out of the bedroom and all hell broke loose! The fighting kicked off again and I've had to separate them.

So I'm definitely going to do a rebond on neutral territory. Usually I prefer to use the fast bond method and under normal circumstances I'd start this weekend so they're not separated for too long. But this bathroom refurb has put a real spanner in the works. I don't want to start rebonding until I get an idea of how loud the work will be and how it affects them. I just don't want any aggravating factors to make it any harder than it needs to be!

Having said that, personally I'm hoping I will be able to do the rebond at the same time as the refurb. They're both going to be a pain in the bum and I'd rather deal with them at the same time and get them over with!

On a positive note, Snoopy bit my ankle a couple of times this morning. I take that as a sign the little g!t is getting back to his old self again!


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Scrappy's Little Helper said:
At this moment in time I think they both do!

I thought they were doing quite well yesterday. There was a bit of grunting and lunging but nothing too serious and they were happily eating next to each other. I really thought they were on the way to sorting themselves out. Then Snoopy decided to come out of the bedroom and all hell broke loose! The fighting kicked off again and I've had to separate them.

So I'm definitely going to do a rebond on neutral territory. Usually I prefer to use the fast bond method and under normal circumstances I'd start this weekend so they're not separated for too long. But this bathroom refurb has put a real spanner in the works. I don't want to start rebonding until I get an idea of how loud the work will be and how it affects them. I just don't want any aggravating factors to make it any harder than it needs to be!

Having said that, personally I'm hoping I will be able to do the rebond at the same time as the refurb. They're both going to be a pain in the bum and I'd rather deal with them at the same time and get them over with!

On a positive note, Snoopy bit my ankle a couple of times this morning. I take that as a sign the little g!t is getting back to his old self again!


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Yeah, I quite see that :)

And in some ways, if they are going to be stressed somewhat by the refurb works, then they can 'huddle together' for moral support. Hopefully! Can you play them some soothing music whilst it's going on?
 
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