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Urine questions and Miss Pip

Mervinius

Mama Doe
Hello everyone

Pip has decided to pull her fur out again even though it's only been two weeks! The vet wants to do a blood test next but he wanted to wait to 2 weeks for her to recover from the last time! Typical.

I've phoned the vets to have a chat before we decide whether to do the blood test and they are calling back when they can.

She's currently fine (other than her bald patch) so we are just keeping an eye.

She has wee'd a lot on their blanket the last few days which she also did 2 weeks ago.
I've scrutinised them of course and I'm wondering if try are normal. Haha

They have a few small spots/dribbles near by and what looks like small orange flakes?

Is this a sign of UTI or something else?
Or me worrying and this is perfectly normal?

Could it just be spots from where she has hopped away too quick. This does sometimes happen with poops when she hops away from the litter tray. (I love a flying poop)

Anyway here are some lovely wee photos.

In the second pic there are 3 small orange patches in a triangle below the big patch.

Is this normal? I can't compare with me Archie cos he always wees in the tray!
95ea02d880c0fde018f46a161e00ca11.jpg
8fa228e7f9f85057320d37ab3a4742f4.jpg
83a5c160d6e49323aaaaa30d460671a5.jpg


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
 
Hello everyone

Pip has decided to pull her fur out again even though it's only been two weeks! The vet wants to do a blood test next but he wanted to wait to 2 weeks for her to recover from the last time! Typical.

I've phoned the vets to have a chat before we decide whether to do the blood test and they are calling back when they can.

She's currently fine (other than her bald patch) so we are just keeping an eye.

She has wee'd a lot on their blanket the last few days which she also did 2 weeks ago.
I've scrutinised them of course and I'm wondering if try are normal. Haha

They have a few small spots/dribbles near by and what looks like small orange flakes?

Is this a sign of UTI or something else?
Or me worrying and this is perfectly normal?

Could it just be spots from where she has hopped away too quick. This does sometimes happen with poops when she hops away from the litter tray. (I love a flying poop)

Anyway here are some lovely wee photos.

In the second pic there are 3 small orange patches in a triangle below the big patch.

Is this normal? I can't compare with me Archie cos he always wees in the tray!
95ea02d880c0fde018f46a161e00ca11.jpg
8fa228e7f9f85057320d37ab3a4742f4.jpg
83a5c160d6e49323aaaaa30d460671a5.jpg


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

It looks like calcium deposits in her wee. Has the Vet ruled out bladder sludge problems ? Sorry, I have lost track of where you are at, so-to-speak.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm
 
It looks like calcium deposits in her wee. Has the Vet ruled out bladder sludge problems ? Sorry, I have lost track of where you are at, so-to-speak.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm
Hi Jack's Jane.

It hasnt been mentioned as an option by the vet yet. I have looked at it myself as an option. But i thought her wee didnt look sludgey like thw pics online so I sort of discounted it. I'm wondering about sending the pics to the vets as discussing it when they call me.

Do you think the spotting could be a UTI or calcium?

I thought that they always have a bit of sediment but I'm sure I've not seen those flakes before

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk
 
Hello everyone

Pip has decided to pull her fur out again even though it's only been two weeks! The vet wants to do a blood test next but he wanted to wait to 2 weeks for her to recover from the last time! Typical.

I've phoned the vets to have a chat before we decide whether to do the blood test and they are calling back when they can.

She's currently fine (other than her bald patch) so we are just keeping an eye.

She has wee'd a lot on their blanket the last few days which she also did 2 weeks ago.
I've scrutinised them of course and I'm wondering if try are normal. Haha

They have a few small spots/dribbles near by and what looks like small orange flakes?

Is this a sign of UTI or something else?
Or me worrying and this is perfectly normal?

Could it just be spots from where she has hopped away too quick. This does sometimes happen with poops when she hops away from the litter tray. (I love a flying poop)

Anyway here are some lovely wee photos.

In the second pic there are 3 small orange patches in a triangle below the big patch.

Is this normal? I can't compare with me Archie cos he always wees in the tray!
95ea02d880c0fde018f46a161e00ca11.jpg
8fa228e7f9f85057320d37ab3a4742f4.jpg
83a5c160d6e49323aaaaa30d460671a5.jpg


Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk


Yes I know what you mean. Are you sure it's her and not Archie?

It could be UTI

It could be urine infection:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

Or to be honest, it could be nothing at all!

I am going through the same thing with one of mine. It's a sample down to the vet, and off to the lab. They will be able to centrifuge it and see whether there is significant calcium deposits or not, and also test for infection.

If it's an odd few occasions, I wouldn't worry too much.

Yes, you were going to ask the vet what they were hoping to discover from the blood test, weren't you?
 
Yes I know what you mean. Are you sure it's her and not Archie?

It could be UTI

It could be urine infection:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

Or to be honest, it could be nothing at all!

I am going through the same thing with one of mine. It's a sample down to the vet, and off to the lab. They will be able to centrifuge it and see whether there is significant calcium deposits or not, and also test for infection.

If it's an odd few occasions, I wouldn't worry too much.

Yes, you were going to ask the vet what they were hoping to discover from the blood test, weren't you?
Archie is a good lil poppet and never pees outside his tray unless he's mega scared.. like a vet visit! So I'm 99% sure it's Pip because we have always had a problem with he peeing near the tray especially when she's poorly.

Oh sorry you have the same problem too.
:-(

Yes I was waiting for the vet to be back from holiday so hoping he can answer what the blood test might show. Think I might ask about a urine test too at the same time. See what he thinks is best.







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Archie is a good lil poppet and never pees outside his tray unless he's mega scared.. like a vet visit! So I'm 99% sure it's Pip because we have always had a problem with he peeing near the tray especially when she's poorly.

Oh sorry you have the same problem too.
:-(

Yes I was waiting for the vet to be back from holiday so hoping he can answer what the blood test might show. Think I might ask about a urine test too at the same time. See what he thinks is best.







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I can't remember - do you have insurance?
 
My Oliver was a sludge bun for 4 years and the main sign of build up was spotting. Sludge rarely was seen. The last time he had spotting thar didn't clear with baytril and when his bladder didn't feel too bad with sludge or showed normal amounts in the centrifuge his xray showed ALOT of sludge and so a very successful flush was done . He usually needed a flush every year. My point is if all tests and examinations appear noreal but bun is still spotting then sludge could still be the culprit. Just sharing my experience bit it may not be sludge.
 
My Oliver was a sludge bun for 4 years and the main sign of build up was spotting. Sludge rarely was seen. The last time he had spotting thar didn't clear with baytril and when his bladder didn't feel too bad with sludge or showed normal amounts in the centrifuge his xray showed ALOT of sludge and so a very successful flush was done . He usually needed a flush every year. My point is if all tests and examinations appear noreal but bun is still spotting then sludge could still be the culprit. Just sharing my experience bit it may not be sludge.
Hmm that's interesting. So they felt his bladder and tested his urine and it seemed ok? But his x-ray showed sludge?

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My Oliver was a sludge bun for 4 years and the main sign of build up was spotting. Sludge rarely was seen. The last time he had spotting thar didn't clear with baytril and when his bladder didn't feel too bad with sludge or showed normal amounts in the centrifuge his xray showed ALOT of sludge and so a very successful flush was done . He usually needed a flush every year. My point is if all tests and examinations appear noreal but bun is still spotting then sludge could still be the culprit. Just sharing my experience bit it may not be sludge.


Thank you Nicky. I will bear that in mind for my little one also :)
 
Yes Mervinius, every thing appeared normal though he then started to sit in the one place alot more and then a little bit of teeth grinding the last occasion for the last couple of weeks which I covered with metacam until he got his flush.

Yes Max something to consider if all other avenues have been covered.
 
Vet left me a voice message today whilst I was at work. He said we have 2 choices.

Option 1 accept this is how Pippin is and manage her as we have been doing.

Option 2 take her in for the blood test and a urine sample.

He said he thinks the red wee is just red pigmentation and not to get too excited. He can't guarantee the tests will show anything and it's up to us. I can phone him next week if I want to chat.

There is definitely some dark brown syrup like wee in the tray. (I think its wee) Not sure who it's come from. It's only a tiny bit. Is this normal? Just the sediment bit perhaps? I going a bit my bunny mad looking for signs and symptoms.

X
3a9f79fd31f9483186f6b81f8b689861.jpg


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I would get her urine tested for infection and spin a sample in the centrefuge for sludge. Sludge usually shows as lots of spotting as well , even if no sludge can be seen. That colour of pee seems normal to me. But if you think a blood test would help then when you are there I would get it done too. Is your bun on metacam? Does it make a difference to the fur pulling ??
 
I would get her urine tested for infection and spin a sample in the centrefuge for sludge. Sludge usually shows as lots of spotting as well , even if no sludge can be seen. That colour of pee seems normal to me. But if you think a blood test would help then when you are there I would get it done too. Is your bun on metacam? Does it make a difference to the fur pulling ??
No she's not on metacam. But we have given it to her when she is obviously in pain and refusing to eat. Normally a few days after eating/pulling her fur which causes a gas build up.

The vet suggested giving her metacam the next time she started pulling to check if it was a pain response or behavioural.

However we haven't done it because she's only pulling it intermittently. It's not a constant thing so it would be hard to see if it's doing anything. She pulled her fur for 1 min this morning and 1 min this evening so far. We are not sure how much she pulls it when we are out or asleep though.

I guess we'd have to put her on constant metacam which the vet didn't suggest yet.

I'm wondering if uti or sludge would give intermittant pain?

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Oh I see, yes giving metacam when fur pulling would be a good idea but as she only does it now and again I can see how it would be hard to see if it changed anything. I don't want to push u in the direction of it being sludge incase it's not, but yes sludge can give intermittent pain. But you would also see other signs of discomfort such as sitting longer in one spot. Does she fur pull every day ?? If she does then givING metacam for a 3 or 4 days to see if that stopped it could show if pain related. Does she spot urine alot?? That's really the main symptom. It's hard to know what to do isnt it.
 
Oh I see, yes giving metacam when fur pulling would be a good idea but as she only does it now and again I can see how it would be hard to see if it changed anything. I don't want to push u in the direction of it being sludge incase it's not, but yes sludge can give intermittent pain. But you would also see other signs of discomfort such as sitting longer in one spot. Does she fur pull every day ?? If she does then givING metacam for a 3 or 4 days to see if that stopped it could show if pain related. Does she spot urine alot?? That's really the main symptom. It's hard to know what to do isnt it.
She generally looks very relaxed flopped on the floor or sprinting around the room at speed. She only sits still when she sleeping during the day. She was pulling her fur for 3-4 days then she wouldn't do it for another 5 weeks.
However 5 weeks ago we took her to the vets as she started pulling again and wanted them to see the bald patch. The vet decided to try ivermectin to rule out mites. Since then she has pulled her fur nearly every day and she had a gassy tummy after two weeks rather than 5.

I don't know if she just had a reaction to the ivermectin or it's just coincidence.

We are very confused what to do next. She currently is stuffing her little face with hay like a normal bun!

Sorry forgot to add. Don't think she's spotting a lot. I just noticed it yesterday, today there's no spotting. She pees more on her blanket just before the pulling episode starts so I can see it.
 
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She generally looks very relaxed flopped on the floor or sprinting around the room at speed. She only sits still when she sleeping during the day. She was pulling her fur for 3-4 days then she wouldn't do it for another 5 weeks.
However 5 weeks ago we took her to the vets as she started pulling again and wanted them to see the bald patch. The vet decided to try ivermectin to rule out mites. Since then she has pulled her fur nearly every day and she had a gassy tummy after two weeks rather than 5.

I don't know if she just had a reaction to the ivermectin or it's just coincidence.

We are very confused what to do next. She currently is stuffing her little face with hay like a normal bun!

Sorry forgot to add. Don't think she's spotting a lot. I just noticed it yesterday, today there's no spotting. She pees more on her blanket just before the pulling episode starts so I can see it.

Personally I'd get the Urine test done, as Nicky has suggested, and take it from there. Although if a bacterial infection were to be located deep within the bladder wall a urine sample may give a false negative result for the presence of bacteria.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Cystitis_Ele.htm


Bladder sludge certainly can cause intermittent pain, rather like cystitis. The calcium sediments irritate the bladder lining. Rabbits can also get interstitial cystitis- inflammation of the bladder without any bacterial infection being present. Sometimes no primary cause can be found for the symptoms and the bladder inflammation and subsequent discomfort just has to be managed as opposed to 'cured'.

There is little documented information about IC in Rabbits, but this explains the condition in humans, just to give you a vague idea of what the condition can involve

https://patient.info/health/interstitial-cystitispainful-bladder-syndrome-leaflet
 
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