Help, bladder sludge !

Hey I'm looking for some advice.

I got my bunny in October at that time she was only 13 weeks. She was cuddly (used to be) and is always give kisses showing love still does. But I'm now dealing with the bladder sludge issue. She's turned in to tight naughty bunny to! But still does give kisses. She will eat her pellets that's she's been in since day dot and will eat only the best Timothy hay! But the little beast just will not drink enough fluid something's she will take it from a syringe and sometimes she will hold a load down. I've been to the vet and paid massive bills for her to have her bladder flushed etc etc they have told me she needs to up her fluid eat certain stuff. The eating it just fine. Even when I put juice in her bowl ( the not from concentrate) it does not seem to work anymore. I've tried everything I'm on the brink of taking her back to vet, I'm basically losing the will with it fighting a losing battle. Does anybody have this same problem ? Or can offer any advice ???? TIA X

Hi, you need to only feed very few pellets, and gradually increase fresh food such as spring greens, herbs etc, soaked in water. Sorry for rushed reply but I need to sleep, got a poorly bunny myself with bladder issues

Sophie patterson said:

Hey I'm looking for some advice.

I got my bunny in October at that time she was only 13 weeks. She was cuddly (used to be) and is always give kisses showing love still does. But I'm now dealing with the bladder sludge issue. She's turned in to tight naughty bunny to! But still does give kisses. She will eat her pellets that's she's been in since day dot and will eat only the best Timothy hay! But the little beast just will not drink enough fluid something's she will take it from a syringe and sometimes she will hold a load down. I've been to the vet and paid massive bills for her to have her bladder flushed etc etc they have told me she needs to up her fluid eat certain stuff. The eating it just fine. Even when I put juice in her bowl ( the not from concentrate) it does not seem to work anymore. I've tried everything I'm on the brink of taking her back to vet, I'm basically losing the will with it fighting a losing battle. Does anybody have this same problem ? Or can offer any advice ???? TIA X

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Hi Sophie and welcome to the forum :wave:

There are several ways you can tackle the issue of bladder sludge ....

As you know, fluids are important, and your vet can always give sub-cut fluids for her (you can even learn how to do these yourself at home). That will certainly help to flush out her bladder. You can also investigate low calcium water, as sometimes the tap water is very hard and doesn't help with the problem.

You've tried flavouring the water, and this can work for some rabbits, but for others the addition of Avipro (a probiotic) will help encourage them to drink more.
Water in a bowl rather than a bottle, and washing the veggies and leaving them wet to increase fluid intake. For this reason, grass is often more helpful than hay.


There might be some helpful stuff in these links (though it sounds like you know quite a bit already):

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/calcium.htm


But by far the most useful stuff I've found is to switch my rabbits to eating much more 'forage' and free food than supermarket veg. The pellets you feed will also contribute to the problem, so you have to watch the quantity and calcium content.

Have a look here for foraging ideas:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/foraging

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits

There's also a little book by Twigs Way on foraging which you can buy at the RWAF shop


Frances Harcourt Brown is a retired rabbit specialist, and she has some very useful papers on her website:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view
(click at the bottom for a PDF form of the article)


Harcourt Brown's view is ...

"It can be seen from this table that it would be easy to ingest a high amount of calcium by eating a lot of 'low calcium' nuggets or pellets but almost impossible to ingest too much calcium from 'high calcium veggies', such as watercress or kale."


Lastly, it will be important to discuss with your vet giving her Metacam, which is an anti-inflammatory as well as a painkiller. You may find she is less cuddly when she is in pain, and crystals in the bladder is certainly very painful!

Sophie patterson said:

Hey I'm looking for some advice.

I got my bunny in October at that time she was only 13 weeks. She was cuddly (used to be) and is always give kisses showing love still does. But I'm now dealing with the bladder sludge issue. She's turned in to tight naughty bunny to! But still does give kisses. She will eat her pellets that's she's been in since day dot and will eat only the best Timothy hay! But the little beast just will not drink enough fluid something's she will take it from a syringe and sometimes she will hold a load down. I've been to the vet and paid massive bills for her to have her bladder flushed etc etc they have told me she needs to up her fluid eat certain stuff. The eating it just fine. Even when I put juice in her bowl ( the not from concentrate) it does not seem to work anymore. I've tried everything I'm on the brink of taking her back to vet, I'm basically losing the will with it fighting a losing battle. Does anybody have this same problem ? Or can offer any advice ???? TIA X

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Hello

Firstly is your Doe spayed ? If not this will almost certainly be why she is no longer so cuddly. She is now a teenager and her hormones have kicked in. Add to that the time of year- 'Spring'- and an Entire Doe will be wanting to mate. Her change in behaviour may not be anything to do with pain, but bladder sludge issues can be painful so it would be a good idea to discuss this with your Vet. I would want to be very careful about giving a Non Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory to a very young Rabbit for more than a few days unless it were absolutely necessary.

Your Doe is very young to be having Bladder sludge problems and personally I would want the Vet to run a full blood profile to see if there may be an underlying problem going on. Your Doe's bones and teeth are still developing so any calcium absorption problems (if there were to be any) need to be addressed.

To encourage water intake I add Avipro Plus to their water. Avipro plus is a PREbiotic, not a PRObiotic. There is some information about it here :

http://www.vetark.co.uk/pages/Avipro-Plus_4.aspx

Before I overload you with suggestions about your Rabbit's diet can you give a list of what you currently feed her. Pellets and Alfalfa hays are usually the main contributors to excess calcium. Whilst some Vegetables have a higher calcium content than others a Rabbit would need to eat a vast amount of them to cause any real problem.

As previously mentioned, the fact that your Doe is young and still growing means that her bladder sludge issues need to be addressed somewhat differently than that of an adult Rabbit. Cutting out too much calcium could lead to bone/dental problems.

'Bunny Buddy', a lovely RU member, highlighted a very useful website created by the Rabbit Specialist Vet,Frances Harcourt Brown, now retired, whom 'Bunny Buddy' had/has a lot of contact with. This is the Website and there is some dietary information relating to bladder sludge problems

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits

Do make sure that you discuss any dietary changes with a Rabbit Savvy Vet though, for a growing Rabbit too little calcium could be as problematic as too much.

Good luck x

Hello thank you for your replies,

I adopted my rabbit, and I've kept her on the same nugget brand from the beginning which was the pets at home nuggets i don't give her alfalfa hay, she has Timothy hay and some hay that has dandelion, nettles and peppermint in nothing consists of alfalfa and she usually has a small portion of cucumber, cauliflour and carrot a day and but frightened to go to near other green in case of a tummy upset unless you can august another veg ??

She has a water bowl and a bottle. The bottle has plain fresh water and the bowl has the half juice half water in.

She has been spayed also. The vet sugusted to me that she has dandelions etc to help change her urine and also recommended the vetcare plus urinary to which my rabbit will not touch. If I give her some nuggets in the eve and the urinary stuff in the morning/day she will eat it. I'm not even sure that it helps at all. Makes me feel guilty because she does not like it . I'm just struggling to get more fluid in her

Xx

Sophie patterson said:

Hello thank you for your replies,

I adopted my rabbit, and I've kept her on the same nugget brand from the beginning which was the pets at home nuggets i don't give her alfalfa hay, she has Timothy hay and some hay that has dandelion, nettles and peppermint in nothing consists of alfalfa and she usually has a small portion of cucumber, cauliflour and carrot a day and but frightened to go to near other green in case of a tummy upset unless you can august another veg ??

She has a water bowl and a bottle. The bottle has plain fresh water and the bowl has the half juice half water in.

She has been spayed also. The vet sugusted to me that she has dandelions etc to help change her urine and also recommended the vetcare plus urinary to which my rabbit will not touch. If I give her some nuggets in the eve and the urinary stuff in the morning/day she will eat it. I'm not even sure that it helps at all. Makes me feel guilty because she does not like it . I'm just struggling to get more fluid in her

Xx

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Hi Sophie,

Good to hear back from you

Have the greens actually given her a tummy upset, or is it you are afraid they might? Most rabbits tolerate veg very well, but I have the odd one who does better on forage with herbs occasionally (dill, parsley, coriander). Cucumber is good for moisture

In my post above I've made quite a few suggestions regarding getting extra fluid into her, and also cutting down on the culprits. Could your vet do some sub-cut fluids?

How much dried food would you say she eats in a day?

It's only from what I've read about other veg that it up sets there tummys, I've started giving her romaine lettuce but only small amounts.

Her dried food consists of 30g pellets in the eve (7pm) they last her until the morning(7am) then she has the vetcare plus Uris art 3 sticks these vary in size I break them down so they look like pellets she usually has some left. She also has unlimited hay dried dandelions etc in trying to grow my own herb garden. I have been told that parsley is good for ruination

What is sub cut fluids ? .

Sophie patterson said:

It's only from what I've read about other veg that it up sets there tummys, I've started giving her romaine lettuce but only small amounts.

Her dried food consists of 30g pellets in the eve (7pm) they last her until the morning(7am) then she has the vetcare plus Uris art 3 sticks these vary in size I break them down so they look like pellets she usually has some left. She also has unlimited hay dried dandelions etc in trying to grow my own herb garden. I have been told that parsley is good for ruination

What is sub cut fluids ? .

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This is where the vet will insert a needle under the rabbit's skin (it doesn't hurt them) and inject some fluid. The fluid is usually plain saline, and it's gradually absorbed by the body and hydrates the rabbit really well. It takes about 20/30 minutes for the vet nurse to give the fluids, depending how much they give.

What did your vet say about *you* getting fluids into her - did he give any advice about that? Or nutrition in general to prevent the sludge recurring?

Sophie patterson said:

It's only from what I've read about other veg that it up sets there tummys, I've started giving her romaine lettuce but only small amounts.

Her dried food consists of 30g pellets in the eve (7pm) they last her until the morning(7am) then she has the vetcare plus Uris art 3 sticks these vary in size I break them down so they look like pellets she usually has some left. She also has unlimited hay dried dandelions etc in trying to grow my own herb garden. I have been told that parsley is good for ruination

What is sub cut fluids ? .

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What are her exact symptoms regarding her bladder sludge ? Does she leak wee ? Strain to wee ? Wee tiny spots 'here and there' ?

How much dried dandelion are you feeding ? That does contain a fair amount of calcium and obviously dandelion in dried form contains no water.

Tamsin (Owner of RU) has a website on which can be found a lot of useful information including this about various Rabbit Feeds, including their calcium/phosphorous ratio

http://www.therabbithouse.com/diet/rabbit-food-comparison.asp

Subcutaneous fluids are fluids administered under the skin by injection.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...div_TechniquesRabbit/Subcutaneous_Mammals.htm

Sophie patterson said:

It's only from what I've read about other veg that it up sets there tummys, I've started giving her romaine lettuce but only small amounts.

Her dried food consists of 30g pellets in the eve (7pm) they last her until the morning(7am) then she has the vetcare plus Uris art 3 sticks these vary in size I break them down so they look like pellets she usually has some left. She also has unlimited hay dried dandelions etc in trying to grow my own herb garden. I have been told that parsley is good for ruination

What is sub cut fluids ? .

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I hope I was clear about the fluids that can be administered by the vet. They can also be given IV - that is Intravenously, usually through an ear vein.

Let me know if I can help further - please feel free to PM if you prefer not to post on the forum

My vet does offer this however she's my nearest vet about a forty minute drive to get there and I'm not sure I'm comfortable doing that myself ?

Yes they told me give her lower Valium veg and up her fluid by adding juice etc to the water they recommended the vetcare plus to

She wees a lot not sure how if she does not drink much, but there I can see the specks of dried sludge as I clean her toilet bit out everyday.

She has no more than a handful of the dried dandelions a day

Does anybody have a diet plan that they can recommend that I try ??

When I get home I will check out the links you provided and will have a read through

Thank you so much for your help

Sophie patterson said:

She wees a lot not sure how if she does not drink much, but there I can see the specks of dried sludge as I clean her toilet bit out everyday.

She has no more than a handful of the dried dandelions a day

Does anybody have a diet plan that they can recommend that I try ??

When I get home I will check out the links you provided and will have a read through

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Yes there's one here that I put in my first post to you

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/ar...t-for-rabbits-with-urinary-tract-disease/view

There's also some info on what to *avoid* if your rabbit needs a low calcium diet:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/calcium-and-rabbit-food

Hope this helps

Thank you will read all links tonight x

Sophie patterson said:

Thank you will read all links tonight x

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You're really welcome