• Forum/Server Upgrade If you are reading this you have made it to the upgraded forum. Posts made on the old forum after 26th October 2023 have not been transfered. Everything else should be here. If you find any issues please let us know.

Animal Testing For Human Medical Research???

Animal Testing For Medical Research???

  • Yes, I agree with animal tesing for medical research!!!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, I disagree with animal testing for medical research!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I'm not sure!!!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
A

anon101

Banned
This issue came up on another forum a few days ago. I would be interested to hear people's view's. Do you think its OK to test on animal's to find miracle cures for Cancer etc.....

Here's mine. (Please nobody be offended!)

I totaly disagree with the whole animal testing issue. Its barbaric and its a terrible reflection on the world we live in now.

Human's arent tested on to find miracle cure's for Animal Disease's? So why should animal's be tested on to help human's?

What give's us the right to inflict pain, misery, torture and death on these poor animal's who are as much alive as you or me, who think and feel just like you and me?

Why should animals suffer for us? What have they done to deserve this? We cant even give these animal's the respect they deserve by keeping them out of rescue center's , never mind testing on them as well.

I think it's totaly wrong.

Louise
 
I agree.

But then I am not sick, have never been sick so my life isn't depending on it. I think when the poo hits the fan the life of a family member would have most people wanting testing. As yet we have no good alternative and even human testing cannot be done in high enough numbers to find some of the more obscure problems. We expect drugs to have no side effects - they all do (lifes not perfect), the question is how bad is it?

Testing cosmetics is what makes me really really sick.
 
Here's a few fact's people might find interesting (You can find out about this on the Naturewatch website. I have quoted from them)

http://www.naturewatch.org/

" Rezulin was believed to be a highly effective compound for treating diabete's and succeeded in all the animal tests. It went to markert in 1997 in the USA but was withdrawn in 2000 after 63 confirmed fatalities due to liver toxicity induced by Rezulin.

Serevent, a drug intended to be used for asthma sufferers, performed badly in rats and mice. It was decided that rodent tests were inappropiate for this drug. As it went on general release in 1994 and has been higly successfull, this decision was clearly correct, but undermines the justification of animal testing.

The inability of animal's to model humams is particularly revealed by two fairly straight forward considerations on the experiment industry.

1) The need to geneticaly modify mice so that they are better able to model humans is an admission that normal mice cannot do the job.

2 ) Despite the throughness of animal tests 85% of drugs that reach clinical trial fail to attain general distribution - an astonishing drop-off, given the claims for the efficay of animal experiments. "

Louise
 
I disagree with animal testing when the species used does not give a true indication as to the actual side-effects in PEOPLE. I can maybe understand if it was the only way, but we hear more & more reports that different experiments were actually inaccurate (causing awful side-effects in humans & had been a terrible waste of lives & money.

That to me says there's little respect for these animals as it is often deemed unnecessary.
 
My views as follows folks

I've heard some much in the news recently regarding animal testing - I certainly do not buy anything now (unless unknown to me) which has been tested on animals and I think there is now no excuse for animal testing for cosmetics and detergents etc.

There is also ever increasing evidence that the testing done on animals is not to be relied upon as the generics are so different - human to animal.

For Medical purposes however I do think its going to be difficult to convince people that animals and humans are equal and in most circumstances if faced with a life or death decision of a loved one - if you thought that by a test on an animal it might save that loved one - Yep I know - difficult predicament!

On a local radio show recently they had a couple of laboratory folks on the show and I've got to say I was surprised at how much they came accross as caring for the animals and very intent to ensure any suffering was kept to a minimum - so I think its dangerous to generalise and think that all folks that work in labs with animals are inhumane and uncaring.

So I guess what I'm saying is that in the case of Medical testing the jury is out on this one for me until I know more about the options for non animal testing - I would really like to learn more about what other forms of testing are available :?:
 
I read in the paper about people giving out death threats to guinea pig farmers who sell to testing companies but by stopping the testing here the tests move to countries such as france where there are no standards maintained for the welfare of the pigs. + I see huntington life sciences getting a battering for testing on animals but why arent they protesting about abattoirs or Halal meat centres? Its very strange to me,
 
Totally against Animal testing for anything.

There are alternative ways of testing products, The Dr Hadwen trust funds non animal research.

http://www.crueltyfreeshop.com/drhadwen/about.htm

Check out the annual statistics page for some facts and figures.

If scientists worked together there would be no need to repeat the same cruel experiments over and over.
I hate the way people think animals exist for our use. It makes me so mad :evil:
 
Well Louise, as you posted the question and you have stated your own opinion, you clearly want to know what other people think. Please don't be offended personally if I answer your post with my view.

This issue came up on another forum a few days ago. I would be interested to hear people's view's. Do you think its OK to test on animal's to find miracle cures for Cancer etc.....

Here's mine. (Please nobody be offended!)

I totally disagree with the whole animal testing issue. It’s barbaric and its a terrible reflection on the world we live in now.

This is a very emotional answer to a very political and scientific question. How an individual feels about something doesn't really contribute to the scientific, or political merits of something. Only the morality of the issue. If you want to influence peoples opinions you need to tackle all 3 issues.

Human's aren’t tested on to find miracle cure's for Animal Disease's? So why should animal's be tested on to help human's?

Well actually a lot of research that has been done on disease in humans pre-and post mortem does provide miracle cures for animals. Cancer, diabetes, asthma, vaccination and infection are all examples how human medical research affects the health and welfare of our rabbits. History is full of examples of medical discovery and breakthrough directly as a result of human experimentation.

1. Jenner - Discovers that the only people in town who didn't contract smallpox were the children who worked with cattle as milkmaids. Instead they subsequently developed cow pox. A less virulent but similar virus. Hello vaccinations. Jenners experiments with the children and hence vaccinations led to the eradication of smallpox around the world. At the time considered man's greatest achievement, wiping out the worlds largest killer.

2. AIDS - Men and women all over the world who are suffering a life sentence at the hands of AIDS are volunteering what is left of their health and life to test drugs and treatments that may either save them or those that will follow. Make no mistake, any medical discoveries here, if deemed safe could and would be used for the greater understanding of and advancements in treatment for feline AIDS.

You can't just make sweeping generalizations like this. People won't take your opinions seriously if you depend on sound bites.

What gives us the right to inflict pain, misery, torture and death on these poor animal's who are as much alive as you or me, who think and feel just like you and me?

Hello? They are alive like you and I yes but that's where the difference ends. If they think and feel like you and me they would have jobs and mortgages. Emotions and intelligent reasoning are the most complex of all cognitive processes. My rabbit sees food. He eats it. He sees a fox and he legs it. I see food and I ask for the ketchup. We are very very different. I would be interested to hear where you think these thoughts and feelings drop off on the scale? Do you disinfect your sink? Are you worried about the feelings of bacteria? Do you tread on ants? Do you swat flies? Do you use slug pellets? Do you slosh spiders down the bathtub drain? Do you cut worms in half with the spade when you are shoveling? Do you set mouse traps? Rat poison? Etc etc. Where is the line where animals/species "feelings" become or cease to become valid?

Why should animals suffer for us? What have they done to deserve this? We can’t even give these animal's the respect they deserve by keeping them out of rescue center's, never mind testing on them as well.

I do not respect animals. (except maybe sharks and lions, cause they eat people - survival of the fittest works both ways) I reserve respect for people. I have animals in my care and I give them the highest standard of care possible. I also feel great deal of affection for them. They are my pets and part of my extended family. I also don't believe animals have rights. My house is not a bunny democracy. When I have to go out, they go back in their cages. No question. Animals are animals. We have a responsibility of care if they are our charges but that is where it ends. I choose to keep rabbits in captivity. Potentially this could be viewed as selfish as I do it purely for my own enjoyment. My pets give me a great deal of pleasure. As a result, I have a duty, a moral responsibility to provide a quality of life that justifies my interference. Our house bunnies and pets live a good deal longer, are more healthy, less injured and more comfortable than a "wild" or natural rabbit. I cannot bear hearing stories of pets being mistreated. It makes me see the red mist to be honest but if I want to make a difference then I can start with setting an example at home with my own animals. Then I can volunteer to do home visits. I can help people become better carers of animals. I can persuade unsuitable people into thinking twice about the responsibility they are taking on.

I know how strongly you feel about all of this but you have to leave room in your mind for other peoples opinions otherwise you will never be able to influence them.

I think it's totally wrong.

Louise

If it was my fatally ill husband or animal testing I know what I would choose every time.

I will not apologise for being a human being.
Andrea
 
wow!! that is the most concise, well thought out reply I have ever seen on this subject and all i can add to that is that i totally agree, we all love our animals but we cannot give them to the same status as another human being. If the choice is save an animal from suffering or save a man, woman or child then i know which has to come first.

Cosmetic testing is a totally different subject though and i try to avoid cosmetics tested on animals. I'm all for it becoming a legal requirement that all cosmetics produced from animal testing should be labelled as 'tested on animals' so that all consumers know exactly what they are buying instead of having to search for products that are labeled 'not tested on animals'. I think if all products had to be clearly labeled like this, alot more consumers would avoid these products so forcing companies to rethink there research strategies.

Yvonne
 
Thanks for your opinion Andrea. You have made some interesting comment's.

This is a very emotional answer to a very political and scientific question. How an individual feels about something doesn't really contribute to the scientific, or political merits of something. Only the morality of the issue. If you want to influence peoples opinions you need to tackle all 3 issues.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to chnage people's mind's, as stated in my original post I mearly wanted people's opinion's. I KNOW animal testing will never change as the goverment will continue doing it until they find a cheaper alternative.

"Hello? They are alive like you and I yes but that's where the difference ends. If they think and feel like you and me they would have jobs and mortgages. Emotions and intelligent reasoning are the most complex of all cognitive processes. My rabbit sees food. He eats it. He sees a fox and he legs it. I see food and I ask for the ketchup. We are very very different. I would be interested to hear where you think these thoughts and feelings drop off on the scale? Do you disinfect your sink? Are you worried about the feelings of bacteria? Do you tread on ants? Do you swat flies? Do you use slug pellets? Do you slosh spiders down the bathtub drain? Do you cut worms in half with the spade when you are shoveling? Do you set mouse traps? Rat poison? Etc etc. Where is the line where animals/species "feelings" become or cease to become valid? "
Click to expand...

Sorry my point should of been clearer. I meant animal's think and feel just like us, not the same way as we do obviously but for themselve's. I know dam well my cat think's before she jump's from a high ledge and she certainly thinks before going outside in the rain.



I do not respect animals. (except maybe sharks and lions, cause they eat people - survival of the fittest works both ways) I reserve respect for people. I have animals in my care and I give them the highest standard of care possible. I also feel great deal of affection for them. They are my pets and part of my extended family. I also don't believe animals have rights. My house is not a bunny democracy. When I have to go out, they go back in their cages. No question. Animals are animals. We have a responsibility of care if they are our charges but that is where it ends. I cannot bear hearing stories of pets being mistreated. It makes me see the red mist to be honest but if I want to make a difference then I can start with setting an example at home with my own animals. Then I can volunteer to do home visits. I can help people become better carers of animals. I can persuade unsuitable people into thinking twice about the responsibility they are taking on.
Click to expand...

You obviously do respect your animal's as you care for them. You educate people about looking after animal's the correct way again that showing respect.

If you didnt care for them and left them in dirty cages etc that would be not having any respect for them.

I know how strongly you feel about all of this but you have to leave room in your mind for other peoples opinions otherwise you will never be able to influence them.
Click to expand...

That's why I started the post originaly to find out people's opinions. :D

Louise
 
Yvonne said:
Cosmetic testing is a totally different subject though and i try to avoid cosmetics tested on animals. I'm all for it becoming a legal requirement that all cosmetics produced from animal testing should be labelled as 'tested on animals' so that all consumers know exactly what they are buying instead of having to search for products that are labeled 'not tested on animals'. I think if all products had to be clearly labeled like this, alot more consumers would avoid these products so forcing companies to rethink there research strategies.

Yvonne
Click to expand...

I totally agree. If we are more aware, we can make more choices.
Things change when you vote with your wallet.
 
I'm not trying to change people's mind's, as stated in my original post I mearly wanted people's opinion's. I KNOW animal testing will never change as the goverment will continue doing it until they find a cheaper alternative.
Click to expand...

Louise - Thank you for being gracious with your reply. I don't like disagreeing with people but a healthy debate educates us and keeps us all honest.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to change peoples minds. If this is what you feel strongly about, go for it! The government isn't actually doing the animal testing. It is allowing it. It is becoming more lenient everyday with what is allowed. They have only recently agreed to the use of foetal tissue for cell cloning (another topic altogether). The culprits/innovators are the big pharmaceutical companies who can afford to do the research. They fund the Universities and they pay for the research with money you give them every time you buy their drugs. If you want animal testing to stop, if you want them to find a cheaper equally reliable alternative, then the way to get through to them is with your money. Stop buying their stuff.
The most powerful consumer is the educated one who knows what they want and who they are morally or politically prepared to buy it from. We all have our own opinions about what is right and where we draw the line. If we want to fight for change do it in the most powerful way. Unfortunately in the year 2004 for big business the only thing that talks is £££££.
 
I totally disagree with animal testing for humans - they are not like us, we are human they are rabbit/dog/pig whatever.

We have enough murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc in prison - use them to test things - they are a waste of space, tax payers money and air - test stuff on them - they are human after all.

On another note - I totally disagree with fox hunting - now you could set a life prisoner free and get the dogs on him/her.

Just my opinion - but it's the way I think.
 
Holly Go-Lightly said:
Stop buying their stuff.
The most powerful consumer is the educated one who knows what they want and who they are morally or politically prepared to buy it from. We all have our own opinions about what is right and where we draw the line. If we want to fight for change do it in the most powerful way. Unfortunately in the year 2004 for big business the only thing that talks is £££££.
Click to expand...

I totaly agree. Money does talk and always will.

I already use product's that are not tested on animal's ie household product's, cosmetics etc etc. I'm not saying EVERYTHING in my house is animal testing free but I try hard to make sure nearly all of it is.

Louise
Click to expand...
 
Jaypot said:
I totally disagree with animal testing for humans - they are not like us, we are human they are rabbit/dog/pig whatever.

We have enough murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc in prison - use them to test things - they are a waste of space, tax payers money and air - test stuff on them - they are human after all.

On another note - I totally disagree with fox hunting - now you could set a life prisoner free and get the dogs on him/her.

Just my opinion - but it's the way I think.
Click to expand...

What do you think we should do with the people in Guantanamo Bay?
As we appear to be beyond legal reproach should we just test everything on the "baddies"?
 
When Cookie had flystrike I used Rearguard on her, someone imformed me I shouldnt use it as it was tested on animals, I know we all think differently but does this mean some people will deny pretentative traetment for a hideous thing such as flystrike???

I can tell you if you see the sight of maggots crawling around your bunnies 'bits' you would do anyhting to prevent it again.

One thing is for sure, we will never see an end to animal testing in our lifetime and our childrens. The majority of consumers want to use products they know will be safe (this is not to say they are safe!)

I hate the thought of what these poor animals go through but to be honest what difference will we ever make avoiding certain brands etc???
 
Kara said:
When Cookie had flystrike I used Rearguard on her, someone imformed me I shouldnt use it as it was tested on animals, I know we all think differently but does this mean some people will deny pretentative traetment for a hideous thing such as flystrike???

I can tell you if you see the sight of maggots crawling around your bunnies 'bits' you would do anyhting to prevent it again.
Click to expand...

Very good point.
 
Kara said:
I hate the thought of what these poor animals go through but to be honest what difference will we ever make avoiding certain brands etc???
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people me included know that boycotting certain brands wont make a lot of difference as not enough people do it.

What makes the difference is that I feel better personaly for boycotting these brands.

Louise
 
Holly Go-Lightly said:
Jaypot said:
I totally disagree with animal testing for humans - they are not like us, we are human they are rabbit/dog/pig whatever.

We have enough murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc in prison - use them to test things - they are a waste of space, tax payers money and air - test stuff on them - they are human after all.

On another note - I totally disagree with fox hunting - now you could set a life prisoner free and get the dogs on him/her.

Just my opinion - but it's the way I think.
Click to expand...

What do you think we should do with the people in Guantanamo Bay?
As we appear to be beyond legal reproach should we just test everything on the "baddies"?
Click to expand...

The problem you have got with testing on the baddies, is that there not all baddies.

I bet there is some wrongly accused people in prison etc.

Louise
 
ellepotter said:
Holly Go-Lightly said:
Jaypot said:
I totally disagree with animal testing for humans - they are not like us, we are human they are rabbit/dog/pig whatever.

We have enough murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc in prison - use them to test things - they are a waste of space, tax payers money and air - test stuff on them - they are human after all.

On another note - I totally disagree with fox hunting - now you could set a life prisoner free and get the dogs on him/her.

Just my opinion - but it's the way I think.
Click to expand...

What do you think we should do with the people in Guantanamo Bay?
As we appear to be beyond legal reproach should we just test everything on the "baddies"?
Click to expand...

The problem you have got with testing on the baddies, is that there not all baddies.

I bet there is some wrongly accused people in prison etc.

Louise
Click to expand...

Quite. My point exactly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top