Do Rescues contribute towards over population?

There have been some interesting debates regarding “breeders” here and their “contribution” towards the rescue population. I have my own opinion on the reasons why animals end up in rescues and it has nothing to do with any group.

However, in the interests of balanced debate, I wonder how many of you have actually considered the impact that the existence of “rescues” themselves actually contributes towards the numbers of abandoned animals today or indeed that not all “rescues” are the same and there are bad and good rescues out there just as there are good and bad pet owners and good and bad breeders?

A delicate subject as many of you are rescuers!! I am not posting this to stir up bad feelings or encourage a negative debate. I do know and appreciate that, taken the wrong way, this could lead to a flame war. I simply feel that it is a valid point and needs debate.

I promise to be on my best behaviour if you will LOL! I probably not even get any replies but if you do, and you are a rescuer, please do not take this personally!

There are good and bad in every aspect of society out there and I do not group them all together under one heading. Equally I do not feel that it is right to ignore the bad things or the negative effects that the good things might have simply because it is not politically correct to do so…

Dons tin helmet......

Its funny cos I was thinking about this yesterday. If there were no animal rescues at all (for any type of animal) would the problem become so bad that there would have to be something done by government or a change in attitude?

Do some people (the kind that should never be allowed to have any) purchase animals knowing that when they get bored they can hand them over to a rescue centre without hassle? In some cases trade the old version for a baby?

happybunny said:

Do some people (the kind that should never be allowed to have any) purchase animals knowing that when they get bored they can hand them over to a rescue centre without hassle? In some cases trade the old version for a baby?

Click to expand...

Sadly yes this does happen, when we agree to rescue a bun we always remove all the rabbit's belongings ie. hutch, run, bowls, bottles, hay, sawdust etc., so that if they decide to get a new bun, they have to buy all the equipment all over again.

Bob said:

I have my own opinion on the reasons why animals end up in rescues and it has nothing to do with any group.

Click to expand...

Bob, can I ask what your opinion is?

bunnyhuggger said:

Bob, can I ask what your opinion is?

Click to expand...

ROFL I knew that was coming! It is no great shakes and I hope that this debate will naturally lead onto it.

What is your opinion on this actual topic? do you think that Rescues actually contribute towards the problem?, do you think that thier are bad and good rescues just as there are bad and good pet owners or breeders?

I think sometimes certain rescues make it TOO easy for people to give up their animals but then on the otherhand if they didnt make it easy animals would be badly treated if the owners didnt want them anymore.I do know of a rescue who as far as i am concerned is adding to the bunny population.The lady concerned breeds a few of her rescue bunnies before getting them neutred to sell to make money to run her rescue.Now i agree it takes alot of money to run a recue but i dont think breeding bunnies to sell for profit is the way to fund it.

I think removing the hutch etc. is a good way to stop people going straight back out for another bunny.

Some rescues are better than others, I think neutering is quite important. Most rescues wouldn't let a dog or cat go without neutering but there are still some that need to catch up on rabbits.

There are also some places that call themselves rescues that the majority of other rescues wouldn't want anything to do with.

I'm not sure whether many buy thinking its ok I can dump it at a rescue though, as a lot seem unaware that rescues exist and just dump anywhere.

It is an interesting thought on the government, rescues do a lot of work and get no susidy for it. If the govt was instead left to deal with it all they might be more inclined to do something. Not a very practical option though

Tam

Its amazing that the only recognised voice animals have is a charity - The RSPCA. There should be a government body for it that way you know when you have a problem it doesn't just get lost in the mass of other work they do.

Bob, you're a toe-rag :lol:

This is one of my thoughts:
If there were no rescues, what would happen to the unwanted rabbits? I have already been in the position of having to decide wether or not to take a litter of 6 12 week old kits, I decided not to take them on for several reasons, but the main reason being I was not going to clean up after someone else had made the mess. The owner was advised about neutering however, this was ignored (and still is being ignored). He has decided to keep 4 of the original litter and wants to get rid the the mentioned 6 remaining ones (again, no intention of neutering) I cannot begin to tell you how guilty I feel about not taking in the 6 kits. But why should I make life easier for him by thinking he can use our rescue as a dumping ground. He made his bed, he can lie in it.

What will happen to the kits? Who knows...............

If there were no rescues, I expect many would be culled, release into the wild, sold at pet auctions, left to die...........

As well as rescues, there are sanctuaries. For the interest of debate, do you have any opinions on those?

Although I posted earlier that some people are encouraged to buy animals at they know they can get rid as and when they want I believe the problem is really down to the goverment and pet shops (and of course the people who buy animals without fully understanding the commitment and responsibilty).

The goverment should enforce stricter laws and pet shops should not allow animals to be bought on a whim.

Should all animals bought from pet shops be neutered (where possible!) to stop home breeding? I know far to many peolpe who think its sweet to at least have 1 litter before get the animal neutered (which in most cases only occurs to them when it is a cat or a dog).

Is 16 really a good age to allow a child to buy an animal and also is this actually enforced?

I'm with you on this one Lynda. Although it was hard for you not to take the kits, probably the same thing would have happened again and so the the vicious circle perpetuates itself.

I feel that if wasn't for rescues then many more rabbits would be killed or put to sleep as the same number of appealing and oh-so-cute little bunnies are still going to be sold from the same pet shops to the same types of people who after the initial novelty quickly wears off will want to get rid of the "burden". Every week in the yellow paper there are a number of "rabbit/s free to good home" or even more cheeky people trying to sell them for money.

I don't know about the RSPCA I know the the Scottish SPCA are grossly underfunded (I might be misquoting this but I'm sure that it costs £22,000 a day to run the SSPCA) and last year they almost had to close a couple of their rescues. So I think the SSPCA basically deals with the worst cases of animal cruelty but cannot do much more than that. Therefore I definitely see the need for animal rescues as they save the lives of numerous animals without which who knows what fate would befall them. In most cases when animals are rehomed from rescues the new owners undergo an intensive "interrogation" to make sure that they will provide adequate care for their new pet. I feel that these animals are the lucky ones in a way.

Like you said Bob there are good and bad in every area and many pets originally bought in petshops will live quality lives and be well looked after but many won't and if rescues and sanctuaries can help improve the quality of life for some of those rejected by the original owners and also educate people about rabbit welfare then I'm all for that.

Hi Bob, I think you have raised an interesting topic for a debate, but please be gentle with all the kind hearted folk who run Rescues, as most work very long hours, and have constant drains on resources, just to see bunnies rehabilitated and then sent on to a forever home.
Our Sanctuary offers bunnies a forever home, but we keep the numbers of bunnies to a quite low level as we strongly endorse quality care and not quantity care. We are certainly NOT putting down any other Rabbit Rescue set up that chooses to operate in a different way, everyone does what he/ she feels comfortable with.
We Rescue some bunnies to later rehome that need rehabilitation and help with socialisation.
We take in bunnies where the original Owner is prepared to take some responsibility for the ongoing care and welfare of the bunny, usually by making some financial contribution to the bunny, especially if we offer a forever home.
This aspect is not about money, and in reality we are lucky as a Charity if we break even with costs at the end of the Year, but this is more about asking folk to take responsibilty in some way, even if they physiaclly cannot cope with looking after the bunny any longer.
We are strict about this, as we have to be, else the bunnies already here would suffer and not have all the care and attention they deserve.
It is very hard constantly turning bunnies away, but we assist in finding spaces elsewhere in other Rescues, Sanctuaries if we cannot accommodate ourselves. We have a list of Fosterers that are prepared to take bunnies in temporarily until a permanent space becomes available at the Sanctuary.
I suppose it depends upon what your personal work involves, and as mine is to rehabilitate bunnies with ongoing health or emotional problems, then this is time consuming and I could not take in huge numbers as do other Rescue Centres.
I am not sure that I agree that Rescues are themselves compounding the problem of the number of bunnies seeking a forever home. The fact is that these bunnies are HERE and do need a forever home for whatever purpose.
I believe that good Rescue Centres have more to offer than just simple Rescue......good ones offer education on bunny care and welfare in general, and ongoing help and support once the bunny is found its forever home.

Please could you expand on why you feel that Rescues may be making the situation worse, we would be happy to hear what you are thinking

I am a gentle old soul at heart :roll:

I just wanted to raise a point of debate that is rarely discussed and that is the contributions that Rescues may, or may not, actually make in contributing towards the actual rescue problem. I have the utmost respect for those that put out their own time and money to care for animals in so many ways. That however was not what the debate was about!

Predictably, that discussion seems to be drifting!

In what way do you think they might contribute Bob? If you want us to dscuss something specific you have to say what it is

Tam

[quote

when we agree to rescue a bun we always remove all the rabbit's belongings ie. hutch, run, bowls, bottles, hay, sawdust etc., so that if they decide to get a new bun, they have to buy all the equipment all over again.[/quote]

And quite rightly so, after all, you are doing taking on the work & COST of rehoming a rabbit- it seems only fair it at least comes with some belongings even if it to be used on other rescues too.

Very wise as it also removes a little temptation too.

Tamsin said:

In what way do you think they might contribute Bob? If you want us to dscuss something specific you have to say what it is

Tam

Click to expand...

Tam - I think that my opening post was adequate for that :?:

Hi Folks - Long time no speak - had a mad week this week so I'm just catching up on things on the Mad Bunny Forum.

This is a real interesting debate - but I kinda think that two things lead on from every thread which is emotive in Bunny Welfare and thats Regulation and Education.

I think without these two areas being enforced at some kinda Government Level we can only strive to chip away at Welfare Issues and make small steps of change where we can (albeit I think any change which helps animal/bunny welfare is a step in the right direction!)

Only last weekend I had a sleepless night as the two little girls next door who already have two hamsters with which they have both now become bored with and their mum has to do all the cleaning out etc had suddenly decided on impulse that they might want a bunny!!!!

I got up real early Sunday morning and did some leaflets for them on the responsibility of bunny care and mentioned that I have many good contacts for Rescue bunnys and really tried to sell the idea of not buying from a petstore on impulse - even to the extent that I offered both the two girls and their mum a crash week of bunny care helping with my two pesky bunns so they could see first hand whats involved.

Well so far it seems to have worked and no impulse bunny has arrived but I wonder for how long? :!:

But Bob - sorry I strayed slightly from your point here - the jist is I think quite rightly as you mentioned there is good and bad in all - I know Rescues who Neuter and Vaccinate all their rescue bunnies and this has got to be step in the right direction, a lot of rescues also now provide their bunnies as bonded pairs which again is brilliant and saves the bunny the solo life.

But just imagine if there was a government policy which enforced strict codes of conduct (not achievable me thinks!!) with perhaps an audit body who could pay visits unannnounced to Petshps/Stores, Breeders and Rescues - If they were abiding by the Welfare Bill they would have no worries about visits :idea:

My opinion on the actual question is that if the rescue is one of the genuine rescues (that neuters & does not become tempted to breed & sell babies themselves from what they are given!) then they are at least giving the animals a chance of LIFE. Other than that Bob, well you & I know what will happen to them them - it would only mean a mass cull policy. I don't beleive these rescues ADD to the number of rabbits around, I believe that society itself causes the problem in this day & age of convenience, choice & fashion

The 'bad' rescues, well, they create problems of their own!

And i agree with Lynda that you do have to be tough on people because otherwise they take everyone for a ride - i would have told the owner the same thing too. All or nothing, take your pick!

On the subject of exhibition breeders however, there are still many breeders that believe in culling (not trying to be anti breeder or anything) & their strong belief is that it is their responsibility to keep or 'deal' with surplus stock they have bred themselves as in their eyes it is far worse to end up as just another number in some of the bad pet shops & rescues. I can understand their rationale to a degree but not something i would be comfortable with in the name of a hobby.

Well, on the face of it rescues themselves contribute very little to the population of rabbits that end up in rescue. Rescues don't generally breed and statistics point at rabbits coming into rescues that were orginally obtained from a rescue is only about 3% of the total, baring in mind many rescues have contracts stating the rabbit must be returned to them not rehomed elsewhere. Rescues in essence 'recycle rabbits' that are already part of the rabbit population.

Thats not to say rescues don't contribute in less obvious ways, such as providing a crutch for people that obtain rabbits without due thought to the responsibility.

Like breeders there are many different rescues, those that provide a perminant sactuary, those that rehome/take in etc. and the policies on rehoming and intakes varies a lot. The contribution no doubt varies as well.

Tamsin