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Bonding advice please!! *first timer!* :-)

N

naomijane

Young Bun
Bonding advice please !!

Long story short ... 4.5 weeks since both my brothers had their ops, been kept separate since as they had a few scuffles in the run up to and just after!

Tonight I have tried to start re-bonding them ... I'm so proud of them, they did REALLY well! We started in the bath with some veggies for distractions, they just ate and didn't really bother with each other. Then we took away the veggies and they just sat next to each other, had a bit of a sniff of each other and there was some grooming!! Fabulous I'm thinking!

So just to see how far we could push it after half an hour in the bath with only positive vibes, I took them back downstairs to their individual cages which is linked by a shared pen. I put them in the pen (cages closed) with some veggies again and no incidents, then took away the veggies, no incidents, only what I have read to be positive signs for 20 minutes or so, so to really push my luck, I opened the cages! All fine for another 20 minutes or so, in and out of each other's cages, lots of positive grooming etc and all was fine. But something happened, it was very quick so I don't really know what the catalyst was but then they were jumping around a little bit which they they started to circle which was starting to break out into a fight. It was inside one of the cages (the cage of the one who was the alpha-boss bunny in all the previous grooming!) I didn't see who or what started it and I split it up before it actually turned into a fight. I gave them both cuddles and carrots (separately!) and a treat to end it on a good note for each of them and they are now in their own cages again.

My questions:
1. Did I just push it too far for the first session!?
2. I'm right to be positive about how well it went for a first rebonding session right? I never expected it to even get out of the bath on the first time, I didn't even think I would be taking away the veggies!
3. Why would they suddenly stop getting on after we'll over an hour perfectly fine?
4. Where do I start from again next time?
5. Any other tips/pointers/thoughts!?
 
Its not unusual to have a period of peace & harmony before something brings about a scuffle. In your case I reckon you were probably was a bit impatient, I'd wait until they were more firmly bonded before allowing access to shared living space. Don't worry, it was looking really good. I'd take it back a few steps & definitely somewhere neutral (for min of 24 hours positive only behaviour). Good luck (& be patient ;)
 
Mine had a scuffle the first time I shared their living space. It can happen if you do things too quickly. I just separated them overnight and went back a step the next day. Try a bigger space than the bath for their next introductions, keep it neutral, and just give them lots of time. Get some good films on your laptop or a good book to keep you entertained.

By the way, do you keep each bunny in the same cage all the time, or do you swap them round? I'm wondering if it could help to swap them over to help them adjust to each others scent. Or at least mix their litter together (if you'require not already)
 
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Hi naomi :wave:

In all honesty, yes I think it probably was too soon and after the successful session in the bath I probably would have left it there. But I totally get why you did what you did as it does sound like it was looking really good :).

I'm no expert, but as you stopped them before it turned into a fight, I don't think it will have damaged the progress you have made, just take it a little slower. Good luck x
 
naomijane said:
Bonding advice please !!

Long story short ... 4.5 weeks since both my brothers had their ops, been kept separate since as they had a few scuffles in the run up to and just after!

Tonight I have tried to start re-bonding them ... I'm so proud of them, they did REALLY well! We started in the bath with some veggies for distractions, they just ate and didn't really bother with each other. Then we took away the veggies and they just sat next to each other, had a bit of a sniff of each other and there was some grooming!! Fabulous I'm thinking!

So just to see how far we could push it after half an hour in the bath with only positive vibes, I took them back downstairs to their individual cages which is linked by a shared pen. I put them in the pen (cages closed) with some veggies again and no incidents, then took away the veggies, no incidents, only what I have read to be positive signs for 20 minutes or so, so to really push my luck, I opened the cages! All fine for another 20 minutes or so, in and out of each other's cages, lots of positive grooming etc and all was fine. But something happened, it was very quick so I don't really know what the catalyst was but then they were jumping around a little bit which they they started to circle which was starting to break out into a fight. It was inside one of the cages (the cage of the one who was the alpha-boss bunny in all the previous grooming!) I didn't see who or what started it and I split it up before it actually turned into a fight. I gave them both cuddles and carrots (separately!) and a treat to end it on a good note for each of them and they are now in their own cages again.

My questions:
1. Did I just push it too far for the first session!?
2. I'm right to be positive about how well it went for a first rebonding session right? I never expected it to even get out of the bath on the first time, I didn't even think I would be taking away the veggies!
3. Why would they suddenly stop getting on after we'll over an hour perfectly fine?
4. Where do I start from again next time?
5. Any other tips/pointers/thoughts!?
Click to expand...


Hi Naomi :D

I know it's exciting to want our little ones to get along as soon as possible, but the key to successful bonding is NEUTRAL all the way :D

Once one rabbit gets a sniff of being territorial, then it's when problems can occur.
I would never have a rabbit's cage around when bonding - only a completely neutral territory.

Good luck for next time :D
 
Thanks for all your super advice and positivity!! I was just so excited that the first session went so well that I went a bit fast for them I think! 😂 I've just been so worried that it wasn't going to go well and I wouldn't get them back together for like a month now that when it went so well, I got a bit over excited and pushed a bit far a bit fast! Oh well! No harm done it would seem this morning. I've now been sat next to the bath for over an hour and a half and it's all going really well!

The first hour they had no distractions no veggies or anything, just each other. There was lots of grooming ... of each other today! ... last night it was Max grooming Arthur which I have read meant Arthur was pushing to be top bunny, but today they are grooming each other!

For the last 40 minutes I put a cardboard box in there, they both love them, I was a bit worried that they were getting a bit bored in a bath with nothing to do! And I was wondering if they would get on ok sharing it, but it has been really good again!! They had worked together to pretty much destroy it in the last 40 minutes!! - well mostly together, Max had a nap in the middle while Arthur carried on!

Even though I bought pillows, I'm now getting a numb backside here in the bathroom. I think I'm going to take them back downstairs and put them back in their cages for an hour or so, have a cuppa and do a few jobs around the house. Then this afternoon, I have a huge pile of ironing to do, so I'm thinking of picking up their pen and moving it to a room they've never been before and putting them in it so I can watch them while I iron. What do you think!?
 
Ok, slight update ... just after I posted that, Arthur started humping Max. I left them to it as I've read it's quite normal behaviour in males to show dominance and as long as the other tolerates it it's ok.

Max tolerated it for about 5 minutes then they started circling which is what used to them lead to a fight, so I've split them up again before it got to that.

Do I just need to keep doing what I've done today? Will it just get to the point where Max just lets him get on with the humping? Or what will mean that they just be together and get on!?

I apologise for all the questions, I find this forum SO helpful, I'm a first time bunny mummy and I just want to make sure I'm doing the best for them! Thanks to you all! xxx
 
4.5 weeks might not be long enough for their hor mones to subside. I have never bonded 2 boys but I believe Mighty Max reckons on 2 months before hormones subside. I know. it's a long time!
 
tonibun said:
4.5 weeks might not be long enough for their hor mones to subside. I have never bonded 2 boys but I believe Mighty Max reckons on 2 months before hormones subside. I know. it's a long time!
Click to expand...

Yeah tonibun is right - in fact in rescue we reckoned on 12 weeks for hormones to subside in males. But you're doing well so far :)
 
My vet said at least 2 weeks, the internet generally said 4 and up to 6 weeks. I've not heard 2 months before 😟 I'm obviously prepared to wait and keep trying. What I've had in the past 2 days is amazing to what I had 4.5 weeks ago when they were getting done, when they immediately fought at any possible opportunity. So I have definite progress 😃 Just after any advice/tips/experience I guess!!
 
MightyMax said:
Humping is normal at any time, for either sex, whether neutered or not :thumb:
Click to expand...

I'm glad about that! But how do I get the other one not to get annoyed with it!? It wasn't like it was constant, they were together for about an hour and 40 minutes before it happened. I let it go on - on and off - for about 5 minutes before Max started to get annoyed and they started circling which was how they used to be before they would fight. So this was the catalyst to it going wrong. How do I get it so that they accept it or just don't do it for a prolonged period! It was like once he started he didn't want to stop! Once I lifted him out of the bath and onto my knee, he was humping my knee for a minute! 😂

This does seem to be the sticking block! Although I am really pleased with how it is going so far!!
 
I'd be pleased too. Humping during bonding can get excessive but usually calms down in a day or 2. I'd let them carry on working it out in their rabbity way but separate if the humper is making the humpee grumpy or if he gets the wrong way round (bunny castration during bonding does happen). Distraction is the strategy that works best, have a reserve of herbs / similar to hand maybe
 
joey&boo said:
I'd be pleased too. Humping during bonding can get excessive but usually calms down in a day or 2. I'd let them carry on working it out in their rabbity way but separate if the humper is making the humpee grumpy or if he gets the wrong way round (bunny castration during bonding does happen). Distraction is the strategy that works best, have a reserve of herbs / similar to hand maybe
Click to expand...

Great! Thanks! I will persevere as we have been and see how we get on!! Thanks for the advice!!
 
naomijane said:
I'm glad about that! But how do I get the other one not to get annoyed with it!? It wasn't like it was constant, they were together for about an hour and 40 minutes before it happened. I let it go on - on and off - for about 5 minutes before Max started to get annoyed and they started circling which was how they used to be before they would fight. So this was the catalyst to it going wrong. How do I get it so that they accept it or just don't do it for a prolonged period! It was like once he started he didn't want to stop! Once I lifted him out of the bath and onto my knee, he was humping my knee for a minute! 😂

This does seem to be the sticking block! Although I am really pleased with how it is going so far!!
Click to expand...



Yes distraction is key, though I tend to use a loud distracting noise rather than herbs. That said, with my deaf bunny that obviously didn't work :lol:

I'm glad you're pleased - you're doing really well x
 
Thanks for the support and encouragement! This forum is just the best!! I'll post some photos later, I don't think I can do it from my phone. I'll have to log into my laptop 🙂
 
naomijane said:
Thanks for the support and encouragement! This forum is just the best!! I'll post some photos later, I don't think I can do it from my phone. I'll have to log into my laptop ��
Click to expand...

unfortunately you have to upload photos via Photobucket or similar, worth the effort though (can you tell I want to see bunny photos:lol:)
 
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