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So stressed: Management of an EC bun with urinary incontinence

Emmy_Cabs

Young Bun
I'm sorry to make another thread on this, but I feel so stressed and don't know who to turn too for help. :(

My 2ish year old house bunny. He was recently diagnosed with EC by a rabbit savvy vet who prescribed a 2 month course of panacur due to his titre being so high. His main symptoms were intermittent hind leg weakness and urinary incontinence.

He has now had 42 out of 60 doses of panacur and I have seen little to no improvement. This is making me think that I caught it too late, and that the damage from the EC is permanent. I can't help but feel horribly guilty for this.

I am desperate to do right by him and give him the most amazing life that he deserves but at the moment I am really struggling to manage his condition.

Before the urinary incontinence, hehad free roam of the house and he was never locked up. I've now had to make a 'pen' in our living room so we can contain the mess. He has vet bed in the puppy crate, and vinyl in the outside area (which he always has access too). S

So I don't ramble on for pages, these are my concerns:

1) Urine Scald - I am struggling to keep his rear end dry and I am worried he will become sore. Putting the vet bed in the puppy crate has made a huge difference but he still dribbles urine on the vinyl flooring. I have thought about putting vet bed in the outside area as well, but it is a nightmare to clean and I struggle to fit it in my washing machine.

2) Free Roaming Now he can't free roam, he spends a lot of time in his penned area. I let him out in the living room when I am here, but I spend the time constantly mopping up wee. If I am honest with myself, I know that the area he is in is too small, but I struggle with space in the house. Should I be thinking about keeping him outside so he has more room?! This however raises concerns over loneliness and about not having as good an idea about his health. Any suggestions on his living quarters would be greatly received without offence!

3) UTIs He has previously had a UTI and I am concerned that the urinary incontinence will cause more. However, if he is frequently urinating everywhere, how will I know when he needs treatment?

4) A companion - Before he became poorly I was looking to get him a companion. I would hate to think he was lonely, or missing out on something he should have. I am so conflicted about what is best for him. What if the stress of bonding makes his condition worse? Would I have to take on another EC bun?

As you can see, I've got myself into quite a pickle!
Apologies for this post being so long and thank you so much if you've managed to keep reading this far!!
 
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I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with Chester :(
Are you a member of the Help For Head Tilt Hoppers group on facebook? I'm assuming that he isn't tilted but so many members on there have EC buns and they might be able to offer you some further advice going forward.

Lots of vibes for Chester and plenty of cuddles for you. Be kind to yourself, caring for a sick bun is very difficult and you are doing your best.
Xx
 
There are 2 things about the management of EC that come to mind:

- Is he also on a prescribed anti-inflammatory (eg metacam)? This reduces the neurological effects that the EC organism causes, eg hind leg weakness, head tilt.
- It is important to avoid reinfection by the EC parasite. It is shed in the urine. Thorough cleaning (eg bleach or steam) of everything he has had contact with (bowls, toys, bed, floor, etc) on days 21 and 28 of treatment are essential to break the lifecycle of the parasite.

Has he had his kidney function checked (blood test)?

EC is treatable but can need several rounds of treatment, and may relapse in the future - again, needing further panacur & metacam.

I would not rule out having a companion for him - but I would wait until he is more stable. The stress of a bonding could make him relapse. I would also look at putting both him and his new companion through a 28 day course of panacur starting on the same day (and the cleaning on days 21 and 28) to give a 'clean' start and minimise the risk of re-infection between both bunnies. Bunnies are (usually) definitely happier with other bunnies. Once the stress of bonding is out of the way, he will probably be happier with company.

As for dealing with the practicalities of dribbling - you could use puppy pads (if he doesn't chew) or towels on the floor. They can be washed or changed regularly. Even using cardboard on the floor may help as you can just dispose of it when it is soiled. I am currently using old towels on top of puppy pads for one of my rabbits. It keeps the carpet clean but keeps him dry. He also has a thick layer of hay over newspaper or puppy pads in a large carrier as his base / nest area - again, it keeps him dry and is easy to clean.

For avoiding urine scald - bum baths and thoroughly dry him afterwards - daily if needed. You can ask the vet to shave his rear end to make it easier to keep clean and dry. You can also apply a barrier (nappy) cream eg sudocrem. If the skin isn't broken, it usually heals quite quickly.
 
I agree on shaving - if you ask the vet they can literally just do waist down on the underneath so from the top you can't tell but it will mean you can keep him clean with a wipe over with a baby wipe. Following that up with a little vaseline/sudocrem to act as a barrier should mean he's much easier to keep clean and less likely to get urine scold.

Depending on his stance on chewing, you could use something like a fleece blanket for the rest of the pen - looks like you've got a nice base board fitted so spreading out the blanket flat and then putting the pen over the top should keep it fairly well in place - that should fit in your washing machine better. It won't be quite as effective as vet bed but it will stop big puddles. Adding a layer of paper or puppy pad underneath would help wick the moisture away too.

This is a situation where I'd be almost tempted - depending on his personality - to try a nappy style arrangement for a very brief period of supervised free ranging. It would only work if he was one of those relaxed rabbits that put up with that sort of thing but it might be worth it in exchange for the mental/physical benefits of being able to get out and about and explore freely. It would need to be timed when he wasn't due for poop eating and just for short periods whilst you are with him. Like I say it would depend on his personality - some rabbits would find that scary and others have a more 'sometimes my owners are just weird but whatever' attitude.
 
I agree on shaving - if you ask the vet they can literally just do waist down on the underneath so from the top you can't tell but it will mean you can keep him clean with a wipe over with a baby wipe. Following that up with a little vaseline/sudocrem to act as a barrier should mean he's much easier to keep clean and less likely to get urine scold.

Depending on his stance on chewing, you could use something like a fleece blanket for the rest of the pen - looks like you've got a nice base board fitted so spreading out the blanket flat and then putting the pen over the top should keep it fairly well in place - that should fit in your washing machine better. It won't be quite as effective as vet bed but it will stop big puddles. Adding a layer of paper or puppy pad underneath would help wick the moisture away too.

This is a situation where I'd be almost tempted - depending on his personality - to try a nappy style arrangement for a very brief period of supervised free ranging. It would only work if he was one of those relaxed rabbits that put up with that sort of thing but it might be worth it in exchange for the mental/physical benefits of being able to get out and about and explore freely. It would need to be timed when he wasn't due for poop eating and just for short periods whilst you are with him. Like I say it would depend on his personality - some rabbits would find that scary and others have a more 'sometimes my owners are just weird but whatever' attitude.
 
I'm completely with you on this issue - one of my buns developed a head tilt earlier this year. She did improve a lot and so they were able to live outside again, but since it's got wetter and colder I'm struggling. She's not litter trained so just pees everywhere - the floor of the shed is so wet. She's not really able to clean herself well either so today I've brought her inside to give her a bum bath and I think I'll have to keep her in for a while - she's got a few sore patches on her legs and the fur all around her back legs and bum is getting matted and so dirty. I think I'm going to make an appointment to see if they can shave her a bit, and I'll be keeping her in a dog crate probably on vet bed to keep her dry so she can heal. I'm stuck with what to do with the other one though - she doesn't do well when she's in a small space but it seems cruel to separate them because they're so bonded. So jury is still out on that one. I'm feeling desperate too and it's hard because I work such long days so can't care for her as I'd like to. Any wisdom or tips you find then please do share!
 
I have a boy (Bobo) also with EC....luckily his just shows as excessive drinking and weeing (touch wood it doesn't get worse).

When he was first diagnosed, my vets gave him Programme Dog tablets and Levicide - which seems very odd treatment but that is their preferred treatment. Bobo initially responded very well - but then his wifey-bun died and he regressed and inspite giving him panacur as well, he still remains with EC - we just monitor his quality of life.

However - my vets have obviously had success with the Levicide and Programme dog tablets - and Bobo did initially respond very positively and had he not lost his wife, he may well have beaten EC.

My vet is Mark Rowland, at Trinity Vets - they are exotic pet specialists and have a fabulous reputation. So it may be worth while asking your vet to get in touch with Mark Rowland about this treatment.

By all accounts EC is very hard to get rid of - but hang in there.
 
I'm completely with you on this issue - one of my buns developed a head tilt earlier this year. She did improve a lot and so they were able to live outside again, but since it's got wetter and colder I'm struggling. She's not litter trained so just pees everywhere - the floor of the shed is so wet. She's not really able to clean herself well either so today I've brought her inside to give her a bum bath and I think I'll have to keep her in for a while - she's got a few sore patches on her legs and the fur all around her back legs and bum is getting matted and so dirty. I think I'm going to make an appointment to see if they can shave her a bit, and I'll be keeping her in a dog crate probably on vet bed to keep her dry so she can heal. I'm stuck with what to do with the other one though - she doesn't do well when she's in a small space but it seems cruel to separate them because they're so bonded. So jury is still out on that one. I'm feeling desperate too and it's hard because I work such long days so can't care for her as I'd like to. Any wisdom or tips you find then please do share!

Shaving should help managing her underneath a lot easier and then they are wipe clean instead of needing a bath and then taking ages to dry out. If the skins sore she might need antibiotic too. She how she goes inside after a shave - vetbed/puppy pads may help as the really wick the moisture away. A pet sitter might come midday and do a clean up if that's an option.

How much space do you have inside? You could add a pen aswell and a roller of lino underneath to make a bigger space for two if there is room.
 
I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time with Chester :(
Are you a member of the Help For Head Tilt Hoppers group on facebook?
Xx

Hi Roxy,

Thank you for suggesting the FB group. I have just joined it and although I haven't posted anything yet, it has been really helpful to read other people's posts and take snippets of their advice.

I really hadn't appreciated how many people are living with bunnies with 'disabilities'. Its inspiring.
 
- Is he also on a prescribed anti-inflammatory (eg metacam)? This reduces the neurological effects that the EC organism causes, eg hind leg weakness, head tilt.
- It is important to avoid reinfection by the EC parasite. It is shed in the urine. Thorough cleaning (eg bleach or steam) of everything he has had contact with (bowls, toys, bed, floor, etc) on days 21 and 28 of treatment are essential to break the lifecycle of the parasite.

Has he had his kidney function checked (blood test)?

.

Hi Shimmer,

I have wondered about anti-inflammatories. He was on baytril a couple of months back for a UTI, but otherwise he hasn't been prescribed anything specifically for the EC. Is this something I should discuss with my vet? Is it something they prescribe for a particular period of time?

I must admit I am struggling with the cleaning sign of things. I am unable to steam because I have laminate floor. I have been intermittently bleaching and cleaning daily with Formula H. He's obviously urinating on the vet bed too - what temperature would I need to wash this at to kill the EC spores?

Thank you!
 
Any wisdom or tips you find then please do share!

Not sure I can offer a huge amount of advice but didn't want to read and run.

I have found puppy pads and vet bed to be a saviour. Since I put Chester on vet bed his back end has been so much drier as the pee soaks through and the top stays dry. Could you try vet bed in the bottom of her shed? That way she will be drier and get to be with her husbun? Its really reasonably priced from vetfleece.co.uk if you decide to go that way.

I also agree with Tamsin about the shaving. Our vet had said that they do seem to keep themselves much drier when their underneath is shaved. It also means you can inspect her easily for redness or raw skin. She will also dry quicker after butt baths.

Sending you positive thoughts! Let me know how you are getting on.
 
See if you can get a piece of lino, that will sit over the top of your laminate and protect it and may be easier to clean :)
 
Hi Shimmer,

I have wondered about anti-inflammatories. He was on baytril a couple of months back for a UTI, but otherwise he hasn't been prescribed anything specifically for the EC. Is this something I should discuss with my vet? Is it something they prescribe for a particular period of time?

I must admit I am struggling with the cleaning sign of things. I am unable to steam because I have laminate floor. I have been intermittently bleaching and cleaning daily with Formula H. He's obviously urinating on the vet bed too - what temperature would I need to wash this at to kill the EC spores?

Thank you!

Here are a couple of articles of interest:
http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm
http://www.dechra.co.uk/therapy-are...cs-antifungals/disease-information/e-cuniculi

Although Panacur may treat the EC parasite, the symptoms it causes are due to inflammation, and it may cause some permanent damage - hence it is usual to also treat with an anti-inflammatory. This reduces the symptoms and the possible long term damage done by the parasite. The length of treatment depends on the symptoms presented and the severity. My rabbit was on metacam for the rest of her life as she was very badly affected with head tilt, which was kept under control by metacam. Other cases may only need a short course - maybe a month to tie in with the panacur, maybe longer. Your vet should be able to advise, and maybe take it week by week.

One of the links has a bit about killing the EC parasite in the environment. Contact time with a suitable disinfectant is quite short. I would suggest using Virkon S powder (eg via Amazon) in the washing machine with the vetbed or fleece, or you could soak it in a bucket and rinse in the machine. Virkon can also be used on the floor, etc. Just avoid direct contact with your rabbit - you can make up a small spray bottle as per the directions on the tub, spray, leave and then wipe dry. It keeps for a week when made up as directed.

Hope this helps.
 
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