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Middle/inner ear infection please help :(

B

BethsBunnies

New Kit
My poor little Alfie is not well with a middle/inner ear infection that I have been told could have been caused by his already existing medical condition - pasteurella (snuffles) which he had when I rescued him 7 months ago. I took him to the vet who gave me some ear cleanser to use on him once daily and some antibiotics - Baytril to use twice daily. However after reading old posts on here it seems Baytril isn't strong enough to treat middle ear infections? I am so scared that the infection is connected to his pasteurella which is untreatable and that the vet is not going to be able to help Alfie because of this. I was wondering if anybody has had this issue before and if anyone's bunnies have recovered from it? Also if anybody knows what the names of stronger antibiotics are that I can ask for as I am planning to go back to my usual vet for a second opinion (the vet who gave me Baytril was a locum, I don't know if that makes a difference?). Please pray that his treatment works otherwise the locum vet said they might not be able to do anything else for him and it might be kinder to have him put to sleep. It's heartbreaking to see him with a tilted head and limited balance to the point where he is falling and rolling over and hurting himself further. I can't deal with losing him. Please pray that he can be made better I love him so much 💜🐰😭
 
BethsBunnies said:
My poor little Alfie is not well with a middle/inner ear infection that I have been told could have been caused by his already existing medical condition - pasteurella (snuffles) which he had when I rescued him 7 months ago. I took him to the vet who gave me some ear cleanser to use on him once daily and some antibiotics - Baytril to use twice daily. However after reading old posts on here it seems Baytril isn't strong enough to treat middle ear infections? I am so scared that the infection is connected to his pasteurella which is untreatable and that the vet is not going to be able to help Alfie because of this. I was wondering if anybody has had this issue before and if anyone's bunnies have recovered from it? Also if anybody knows what the names of stronger antibiotics are that I can ask for as I am planning to go back to my usual vet for a second opinion (the vet who gave me Baytril was a locum, I don't know if that makes a difference?). Please pray that his treatment works otherwise the locum vet said they might not be able to do anything else for him and it might be kinder to have him put to sleep. It's heartbreaking to see him with a tilted head and limited balance to the point where he is falling and rolling over and hurting himself further. I can't deal with losing him. Please pray that he can be made better I love him so much 💜🐰😭
Click to expand...


Beth I am so sorry to hear this :(

First of all, make sure you have a *good* vet who can deal with this sort of thing and can give you the correct advice. If necessary, get a referral to a specialist, or take yourself and Alfie off to someone extremely knowledgable and get the lowdown.

They may wish to take an X-ray to see what's going on, and to put him on an injectable such as Depocillin (daily or every other day for an extended period of time). Pain relief (Metacam) is absolutely essential.

Some info here:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm

There is also a good Facebook group for disabled and head tilt rabbits. I believe Roxyroller will know quite a bit about it, and also Ruthyjones - I am sure they will spot your post and reply otherwise do contact them.

If you want a vet recommendation from here, post another thread with "Rabbit Savvy Vet needed in (your location)" and members will help you out as much as possible.

You are not alone!! Good luck and keep posting :D
 
Yes, always seek a second opinion. Never give up! And if you think to put him down (I hope you won't), please, just give him two more weeks before doing so! You can't imagine how the things may change!

Actually I think he will overcome the sickness. Rabbits are tough, really tough.
 
Hi Beth,

Sending lots of vibes for your little man!

I've previously had a bunny who was treated for middle and inner ear infection, and currently have another one of my bunnies currently dealing with an outer ear infection! They really are evil but I think persistence is the key. Honestly feel free to PM me if you want any info.

But yes you are best speaking to a specialist? And defo want to get him on some stronger anti-biotics. Maybe even 2 and also a medication to help with the dizziness, and of course pain relief!

Topping up the vibes for Alfie xx
 
I had two bunnies recover from ear infections (one always had a bit of a head tilt for the rest of his years); and one very old (13 years) bunny who could not recover.
I am sending some positive vibes that Alfie will recover too.
 
Hi Beth, me again!

Just seen your post on my thread so thank you. When my honey had her middle/inner ear infection, she was on 2 anti-biotics, chlorophenical and penicillin injections. is their also build up in her outer ear?

She also had tramadol (strong pain relief as she found it very painful, and wasn't eating her pellets at all. Only very soft veg and forage. With water, she had a bowl but when giving her meds twice daily she also had a 1ml syringe full of water.

She was also on a 4th Medication that was to help with the dizziness, stemitil or something like that.

Honestly I know how scary it is having a headtilt bunny. Is Alfie indoors? Also is he free range of have a little indoor house?
 
THANK YOU to you all for your wonderful suggestions, advice and reassurance. I am so so sad about this. I rescued him at 3 months after he had a horrible start to life and he's been so happy and healthy until this. He just isn't himself at all. He has deteriorated in the past 24 hours (he has been on baytril for 6 days and only got worse) so I rang the vet and asked for his follow-up appointment to be brought forward as it wasn't until a week tomorrow and I don't want to wait that long. I'm taking him this afternoon and have lots of things from here and the facebook page to suggest. I am going to demand pain relief and a stronger antibiotic and possibly a referral to an exotic specialist depending on what is said. Alfie is indoors yes, he has a large cage that is left open during the day so he can run around when and where he likes. Administering the baytril and the ear cleanser is proving really difficult. He hates it and I'm having to wrap him in a towel and restrain him so that I can get the syringe in his mouth because he won't take it voluntarily despite mixing it with ribena. So if he is going to be that stressed about taking it, I'd rather be giving him something stronger than the baytril that has a better chance of working. In the past 24 hours he has stopped eating everything other than tiny bits of dried and fresh herbs. No hay. No pellets. No water. Not even celery which is his absolute favourite veg. I keep trying to rub his ears gently and massage his neck but he keeps running off and when I put him on my knee he rolls more. This is so difficult and so upsetting. How does everyone else give oral medication without light restraint? Do you have another person to help? Is there a trick I'm missing? I'm just popping to the shop for some Ella's kitchen baby food to try and get him to eat something before his appointment where I'll buy critical care. The poor little mite :'( xxx
 
I'm so sorry that you and Alfie are going through this. I can't offer any advice, thankfully not had to deal with ear problems, but glad others have helped. Good luck to you both at the vets xxxx
 
Beth, I'm talking to you on facebook too but it certainly does help if you have a second person on hand to help with the meds. Hiro was very tricky and it was a struggle so I understand how hard it can be. Have you tried getting down to his level and medicating him on the floor?
It's quite normal for him to go off his pellets, a lot of them do. Just keep trying to feed him what he will eat and top it up with the critical care. Also syringe him some water and don't forget to ask about subq fluids, especially if he isn't drinking a lot. You can also soak his herbs in water before giving them to him.
It's a stressful time but you are doing well so try to stay calm. See what your vet says and don't forget that you have Molly Varga on your doorstep. I'm sure others on here will back me up when I say how lucky you are to have such a great vet nearby if you feel like you need her!
 
roxyroller88 said:
Beth, I'm talking to you on facebook too but it certainly does help if you have a second person on hand to help with the meds. Hiro was very tricky and it was a struggle so I understand how hard it can be. Have you tried getting down to his level and medicating him on the floor?
It's quite normal for him to go off his pellets, a lot of them do. Just keep trying to feed him what he will eat and top it up with the critical care. Also syringe him some water and don't forget to ask about subq fluids, especially if he isn't drinking a lot. You can also soak his herbs in water before giving them to him.
It's a stressful time but you are doing well so try to stay calm. See what your vet says and don't forget that you have Molly Varga on your doorstep. I'm sure others on here will back me up when I say how lucky you are to have such a great vet nearby if you feel like you need her!
Click to expand...


I absolutely second Molly Varga and so pleased she is near to you Beth :)
 
I am on my way now to my usual vet who treats my dog and guinea pigs for Alfie's follow-up appointment that I brought forward (I saw a locum last week as my usual vet wasn't in). I am equipped with information to take with me thanks to everybody who has commented on here and facebook, and I am going to ask for a referral to Molly Varga to continue Alfie's treatment. I am keeping everything crossed for him and I will let all of you wonderful people know what the outcome of this appointment is. Thank you so much to you all xxx
 
BethsBunnies said:
I am on my way now to my usual vet who treats my dog and guinea pigs for Alfie's follow-up appointment that I brought forward (I saw a locum last week as my usual vet wasn't in). I am equipped with information to take with me thanks to everybody who has commented on here and facebook, and I am going to ask for a referral to Molly Varga to continue Alfie's treatment. I am keeping everything crossed for him and I will let all of you wonderful people know what the outcome of this appointment is. Thank you so much to you all xxx
Click to expand...


Fingers crossed for you and Alfie, Beth xx
 
Update: I have seen my usual vet. She tried her very best to advise that Baytril is an effective treatment against inner ear infection and the one that is usually prescribed. I had to stand my ground and say that her belief is contradictory to everything I have read from very experienced rabbit owners on forums and such like. I said I wanted to try Septrin, and use it alongside the Baytril. She wasn't aware that the 2 could be used in conjunction with one another so had to go and ask 2 other vets who also wasn't aware so in the end she had to look it up to find that yes you actually can use the both of them together! She still advised that Baytril should be effective but prescribed the Septrin anyway. I then mentioned about the pain that poor Alfie must be in and she agreed with this so I also got Metacam. She said she believes that Alfie's condition is an inner ear infection but because that cannot be guaranteed 100% without further testing she would recommend something to treat EC aswel to try to cover all bases. So she prescribed some oral Lapizole which I have not seen mentioned anywhere - is this just the proper name for Panacur? I will continue to use the ear cleanser until it has all gone just to try to clear some of the gunk in the middle ear but I am aware this doesn't penetrate into the inner ear. Last week I was also given some Xeno spot-on solution for parasites which I used however forgot to ask if it is ok to use the Lapizole aswel as the Xeno which I applied last Thursday. Does anybody know if this will be ok? I asked if there were any exotics trained vets in the practice which there weren't so I asked for a referral to Molly Vanga to continue with Alfie's treatment so I will be making the next follow-up appointment with her. I am aware this post is very long but wondered if anybody had any ideas on how to administer all of these oral meds? Some are flavoured (Septrin) and I can add juice to the Baytril which is better, but I know from using the Metacam on hamsters before that it is stinky and tastes bitter. It is a milky liquid as is the Lapizole so is it best not to mix these 2 with juice? Sorry for all the questions xxx
 
BethsBunnies said:
Update: I have seen my usual vet. She tried her very best to advise that Baytril is an effective treatment against inner ear infection and the one that is usually prescribed. I had to stand my ground and say that her belief is contradictory to everything I have read from very experienced rabbit owners on forums and such like. I said I wanted to try Septrin, and use it alongside the Baytril. She wasn't aware that the 2 could be used in conjunction with one another so had to go and ask 2 other vets who also wasn't aware so in the end she had to look it up to find that yes you actually can use the both of them together! She still advised that Baytril should be effective but prescribed the Septrin anyway. I then mentioned about the pain that poor Alfie must be in and she agreed with this so I also got Metacam. She said she believes that Alfie's condition is an inner ear infection but because that cannot be guaranteed 100% without further testing she would recommend something to treat EC aswel to try to cover all bases. So she prescribed some oral Lapizole which I have not seen mentioned anywhere - is this just the proper name for Panacur? I will continue to use the ear cleanser until it has all gone just to try to clear some of the gunk in the middle ear but I am aware this doesn't penetrate into the inner ear. Last week I was also given some Xeno spot-on solution for parasites which I used however forgot to ask if it is ok to use the Lapizole aswel as the Xeno which I applied last Thursday. Does anybody know if this will be ok? I asked if there were any exotics trained vets in the practice which there weren't so I asked for a referral to Molly Vanga to continue with Alfie's treatment so I will be making the next follow-up appointment with her. I am aware this post is very long but wondered if anybody had any ideas on how to administer all of these oral meds? Some are flavoured (Septrin) and I can add juice to the Baytril which is better, but I know from using the Metacam on hamsters before that it is stinky and tastes bitter. It is a milky liquid as is the Lapizole so is it best not to mix these 2 with juice? Sorry for all the questions xxx
Click to expand...

Lapizole and Panacur are just another brand name for Fenbendazole, the active ingredient. Lapizole is aniseed flavoured, most Rabbits like it. Metacam is actually sweet, it is Honey flavoured and most Rabbits like that too.

Covering for EC by giving Lapizole/Panacur in a case of head tilt with no definitive diagnosis is a good idea

I would be wary of putting anything into the ear canals if the Vet has not established that the ear drums are still intact. If they are perforated using ear drops is usually contraindicated. For example Canaural Ear drops- see 'Contraindications' on here

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-449530

Perhaps you need to clarify this with the Vet who prescribed the treatment. Especially if your Rabbit's vestibular symptoms have worsened AFTER starting to use the ear drops.

I do not think it is a problem to give the Lapizole after having administered the Xeno last week, but please also confirm this with your Vet

I hope Molly is able to give you a lot more help and advice :)
 
Thank you for your help. Just to clarify. The only thing I have used in Alfie's ears is Otoact ear cleanser which I believe is gentle and is supposed to soften any wax in the outer ear and perhaps the middle ear also? There is no visible wax or crustiness in the outer ear. The Octact is Squalene based and again was I think prescribed as a preventative measure. I have not been prescribed ear drops. Should I have been? xx
 
BethsBunnies said:
Update: I have seen my usual vet. She tried her very best to advise that Baytril is an effective treatment against inner ear infection and the one that is usually prescribed. I had to stand my ground and say that her belief is contradictory to everything I have read from very experienced rabbit owners on forums and such like. I said I wanted to try Septrin, and use it alongside the Baytril. She wasn't aware that the 2 could be used in conjunction with one another so had to go and ask 2 other vets who also wasn't aware so in the end she had to look it up to find that yes you actually can use the both of them together! She still advised that Baytril should be effective but prescribed the Septrin anyway. I then mentioned about the pain that poor Alfie must be in and she agreed with this so I also got Metacam. She said she believes that Alfie's condition is an inner ear infection but because that cannot be guaranteed 100% without further testing she would recommend something to treat EC aswel to try to cover all bases. So she prescribed some oral Lapizole which I have not seen mentioned anywhere - is this just the proper name for Panacur? I will continue to use the ear cleanser until it has all gone just to try to clear some of the gunk in the middle ear but I am aware this doesn't penetrate into the inner ear. Last week I was also given some Xeno spot-on solution for parasites which I used however forgot to ask if it is ok to use the Lapizole aswel as the Xeno which I applied last Thursday. Does anybody know if this will be ok? I asked if there were any exotics trained vets in the practice which there weren't so I asked for a referral to Molly Vanga to continue with Alfie's treatment so I will be making the next follow-up appointment with her. I am aware this post is very long but wondered if anybody had any ideas on how to administer all of these oral meds? Some are flavoured (Septrin) and I can add juice to the Baytril which is better, but I know from using the Metacam on hamsters before that it is stinky and tastes bitter. It is a milky liquid as is the Lapizole so is it best not to mix these 2 with juice? Sorry for all the questions xxx
Click to expand...



Hi Beth

I am really glad that you will be going to see Molly Varga. To be honest, that's going to be worth a lot more than any suggestions you can get on a Forum like this :D

Lapizole is the same was Panacur, and your vet should have given you an appropriate dosage and also told you how long to administer it for. The Xeno spot on you mention won't interfere with the Panacur.

Regarding getting all the meds into Alfie - try some baby food. I have used Ella's Kitchen organic baby food and put some in the syringe alongside the meds. Carrot and apple, and bananas is often popular :D

Good luck xx
 
BethsBunnies said:
Thank you for your help. Just to clarify. The only thing I have used in Alfie's ears is Otoact ear cleanser which I believe is gentle and is supposed to soften any wax in the outer ear and perhaps the middle ear also? There is no visible wax or crustiness in the outer ear. The Octact is Squalene based and again was I think prescribed as a preventative measure. I have not been prescribed ear drops. Should I have been? xx
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If the ear drums were to be perforated putting any liquid into the ear canals can risk pushing bacteria further into the middle/inner ear. So personally I'd want the Vet to assure me that the eardrums are both intact before putting any ear cleaner/ear drops in. Having said that, the ingredients of Otoact are at levels unlikely to be ototoxic. Having had rather too much first hand experience of Ear Disease in Rabbits I am a tad neurotic about what does or does not go into the ear canals !
 
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