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What exactly is safe?

CrispyClaret

Warren Scout
Not sure where to put this post, so please forgive.
In the run up to getting our babies I spent hours mouching all the bunny advice pages I could find and everything has its contradictory version.
Straw for bedding...pokes into bunnies eyes and full of dust...why is it sold?
Sawdust...bad for their lungs...why is it sold?
Bedding/blankets...pull to bits, eat fluff, bung up their bowels
Heat mats...not available in the wild
Indoors/outdoors...one rspca rehouser told someone, outdoors only. There is a also website that says never put bunnies outdoors...EVER
Minimum floor space for bunnies...every petshop sells tiny hutches and I have not seen protest banners outside
Muesli...creates fussy bunnies
Weather..don't get them wet or in a draft
Fresh vegs...a cup full...is that a cup of finely chopped or hunks of leaves for example? What size cup.
Toys..I have seen a toy in Petshop being sold as a night cuddle toy for rabbits, on the lable it says to be used under supervision only

So, do I get paranoid over every last thing or is there no correct answer? I also guess bunny safe varies from bunny to bunny...found a run tube, reviews say rabbits chewed it and died in days, other reviews say its great.

Oh well........
 
I must admit I had a giggle at that. Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in all that as rabbits are quite complex and there is so much to learn about them. I suppose we have all made mistakes in our ignorance and after 18 years of keeping rabbits there is still lots to find out. I think the basics should be made clear though - rabbits have sensitive respiratory systems so therefore should be kept as dust-free as possible, so no wood shavings. I have to go out now but others will no doubt be along.
 
Yes, it's confusing isn't it :lol: I would suggest that we are also likely to have different views. I suggest you decide what the basics are and also see what sort of rabbits yours are. My views are based on how I keep my three adult rabbits, who live together.

Straw - I never used straw until I got a free pack with some food last winter. I have used it in the shed, in boxes underneath hay. They sit in the boxes. My straw certainly wasn't dusty and whilst yes the ends are sharp, no poking in eyes has happened. I wouldn't both with it again.

Sawdust - Yes, I agree this is bad for rabbits' respiratory systems and so have never used it.

Bedding/blankets - Don't use. I like to keep my rabbits environment as natural as possible. I'm not sure they would eat it, but I think they would soil them.

Heat mats - Don't use. My rabbits snuggle up to each other and keep each other warm. I would probably change this view if I had an elderly/chronically sick rabbit.

Indoors/outdoors - Mine are outdoors. Don't have a firm view either way, apart from single rabbits, who I would not house outside.

Minimum floor space - Mine have a shed with a catflap which leads to several different areas. Large space.

Muesli - I feed pellets, but very few.

Weather - My rabbits tend to shelter in the shed if its wet or very windy. As long as they have somewhere to shelter I would not be concerned.

Fresh vegs - Don't measure what my rabbits have. They have forage/tree leaves as preference to vegs and a lot of it. Vegs gets fed in the winter months when no forage available.

Toys - They have no toys as such. They have cardboard boxes and twigs to nibble.

I've no doubt you will get different views from others. If I were you I would perhaps just concentrate on the basics and add to them once you have your rabbits and can see what they are like.
 
Yeah it does depend on the bunny! Some buns will eat blankets etc while others won't.

My buns just have newspaper and hay for their cage bedding, but dust free shavings (e.g. dust free aspen shavings) are safe as long as buns don't eat it which probably most won't. But sawdust is never okay.

Buns can be housed indoors or outdoors but it depends on the individual. Some buns might have a preference, some don't. As they get into old age they might not deal with the weather as well as they did when they were younger. Single rabbits ideally should be kept indoors so they have more human company.

Mostly though it depends on people's circumstances/preferences on whether they have indoor or outdoor rabbits. I've had both but currently just have indoor buns which I prefer because I love having free range rabbits and the weather here in Florida can make outdoor rabbits more difficult in some ways.

Some toys put the supervision thing just as a precaution I think. I do read reviews and make sure there's enough information listed about the toy (e.g. what it's made of) for me to deem whether or not it is safe though. I do that with all pets though, since this can be true for any species.

The muesli thing is weird to me because to me muesli is what we call a mix and those mixes are always rubbish with things that aren't suitable for rabbits like dried corn and seeds. But in the UK there are some good brands and it's a personal opinion on whether to feed it.

Mostly people recommend the top brands of pellets though. But then there's also people who don't feed pellets period. Same thing with veg - veg doesn't agree with all buns so some feed herbs or forage instead. But you can work out how much veg etc to give them by going by the 85% hay and an eggcup full of pellets guideline. I think people say the diet should ideally be something like 85% hay, 10% veg/herbs/forage, 5% pellets. You kinda just work out what's best for your individual buns as you go though. I don't really measure.

Hopefully this'll make some stuff clearer to you! Or maybe I've just made things more confusing, I'm honestly not sure :lol:
 
Most pet shops seem to give rubbish advice. It is very confusing.

I impulse bought two rabbits then came online to research and found this site. They started off indoors and are now outside in a shed with two does.

I use newspaper straw and hay in the litter trays with no problems. They wee all over any soft bedding. I gave them muesli for ages, they currently have pellets but I am considering going with dried forage instead quite soon.

They dont have heat mats in the wild but the do have nice deep burrows which keep them nice and cosy.

Your two are utterly cute and fluffy and have a superb set up. I think we need (a lot) more piccies of them.
 
Great post and I think you just about summed up what myself and lots of others have thought!

I have read so much information online and as other have said decided which bits I think are relevant and apply to my buns behaviour / personalities. There will always be differences of opinion though, I just do what I think is right.

One thing I do absolutely agree on though is no sawdust. I've never used it x
 
Some of it is because knowledge on pet care is a fairly rapidly developing field at the moment. Peoples attitude to pets has changed a lot in the last few decades, and they are willing and able to spend cash and make decisions on what's best for their welfare. Some of those contradictions are were knowledge (and scientific evidence) have change, for example muesli was the norm 20 years ago but now we know that it's linked with various health issues. Likewise hutch size is still a fairly new issue.

Some of the other contradictions are down the the way we view pets - family members to spoil - are heat pads necessary? With good accommodation, a healthy rabbit and the normal temps in the south of the UK - nope not really.

There is also a split between general knowledge and expert knowledge - you'll get basics like rabbits live in hutches and eat muesli from people using information that's been passed around or absorbed from spending time in pet shops. Then you'll get more expert knowledge if you go looking for experts in the field - for example a vet that specialises in rabbits.
 
Thank you for all the quick replies.
So far I have been using wood shavings on top of the lino my living bit of the hutch is lined with, combined with the recycled paper pellets in their litter tray. I did put some shredded paper in there but they pretty much ignore it, in fact they move the wood to sleep on the lino.
Food wise its been hay plus pellets, they had been weaned onto muesli but they dont miss it. Fresh food I started with dandelions and have moved onto trying kale, parsley, basil, spinach, Oh and long grass, its like spaghetti to them and they do the cute 101 dalmations bit of eating the same bit until they meet in the middle. They love their greens enough that just the rustle of the bag brings them hopping over. No sign of tummy troubles yet. In the garden its pretty much been grass and clover with odd dead leaf.
All toys have been gnored apart from some seagrass balls which they throw and chew.
Weather precautions have been to windproof the run to a height of 12" and half the top is covered. The run part of the hutch I made screens for to keep out driving rain and gales but only on 3 sides as some air needs to get in.
I cant believe how much time I have spent with them, my partner can only be with them at weekends so its pretty much daddy that does most things for them. Seriously I am up at 6.15 and let them out, if i leave it a few minutes they are on the step looking out for me. My bunny cam lets me get my timing close.
 
Thank you for all the quick replies.
So far I have been using wood shavings on top of the lino my living bit of the hutch is lined with, combined with the recycled paper pellets in their litter tray. I did put some shredded paper in there but they pretty much ignore it, in fact they move the wood to sleep on the lino.
Food wise its been hay plus pellets, they had been weaned onto muesli but they dont miss it. Fresh food I started with dandelions and have moved onto trying kale, parsley, basil, spinach, Oh and long grass, its like spaghetti to them and they do the cute 101 dalmations bit of eating the same bit until they meet in the middle. They love their greens enough that just the rustle of the bag brings them hopping over. No sign of tummy troubles yet. In the garden its pretty much been grass and clover with odd dead leaf.
All toys have been gnored apart from some seagrass balls which they throw and chew.
Weather precautions have been to windproof the run to a height of 12" and half the top is covered. The run part of the hutch I made screens for to keep out driving rain and gales but only on 3 sides as some air needs to get in.
I cant believe how much time I have spent with them, my partner can only be with them at weekends so its pretty much daddy that does most things for them. Seriously I am up at 6.15 and let them out, if i leave it a few minutes they are on the step looking out for me. My bunny cam lets me get my timing close.


What an adorable picture you paint, CrispyClaret :love:

Yes, rabbits do take up a lot of time. I home check and rehome, and I try and discourage people from taking rabbits when I feel they think they are the 'easy option' as far as a pet is concerned.

As you've found out, to give a rabbit a life worth living takes a lot of time and dedication.

Well done you! :D
 
Not sure where to put this post, so please forgive.
In the run up to getting our babies I spent hours mouching all the bunny advice pages I could find and everything has its contradictory version.
Straw for bedding...pokes into bunnies eyes and full of dust...why is it sold?
Sawdust...bad for their lungs...why is it sold?
Bedding/blankets...pull to bits, eat fluff, bung up their bowels
Heat mats...not available in the wild
Indoors/outdoors...one rspca rehouser told someone, outdoors only. There is a also website that says never put bunnies outdoors...EVER
Minimum floor space for bunnies...every petshop sells tiny hutches and I have not seen protest banners outside
Muesli...creates fussy bunnies
Weather..don't get them wet or in a draft
Fresh vegs...a cup full...is that a cup of finely chopped or hunks of leaves for example? What size cup.
Toys..I have seen a toy in Petshop being sold as a night cuddle toy for rabbits, on the lable it says to be used under supervision only

So, do I get paranoid over every last thing or is there no correct answer? I also guess bunny safe varies from bunny to bunny...found a run tube, reviews say rabbits chewed it and died in days, other reviews say its great.

Oh well........

There is a lot of confusion, but the fact you're doing your research is great :D Sawdust is an absolute no no, I've no idea why it's still available at all to be honest, sadly many unsuitable things (eg. toys, food) that advertise themselves as being safe for rabbits are not. Woodshavings are used by many people, better than sawdust but they do have chemicals in which can irritate the rabbits respiratory system, we might not notice so much but rabbits are much more sensitive and spend most of their time with their heads to the floor. I sometimes use shavings if I've run out of normal bedding but I'd avoid it long term. Straw can be a bit pokey but it's a good insulator so I used to use it for my outdoor rabbits in winter, my rabbits never had any issues with it. I used proper straw from bales so that wasn't dusty at all, unfortunately a lot of the pre-packed pet shop straw is very dusty and it's also flattened and softer, which means it's not as good an insulating as the pokey stuff. Blankets, some rabbits chew them to bits, others don't touch them, you could give them a go but if your rabbit is chewing and eating the fabric then take it away. The problem with heat mats is that some have wires which rabbits will chew and probably electrocute themselves with, others (eg. microwave ones) don't always stay warm overnight so your rabbit might be lovely and warm for a few hours, and then absolutely freezing in the morning. I think it's better that they have a consistent temperature so unless you can keep up with heat pads and making sure they're always warm I wouldn't bother, for the same reason it's not good to bring rabbits in and out of the house during winter.

Some of the popular bedding on here which does not seem to be bad for health - Fitch (paper bedding), hemp bedding, megazorb. Mine aren't chewers so I can put them on puppy pads, and I use wood pellet cat litter in their litter tray. I have vet bed too which they don't chew but they do wee all over it

Rabbits can be kept indoors or out. Outside you have to make sure the hutch is weather proof, not in a direct draught and make sure rain can't get in. It also needs to be fox proof. Inside is fine too I don't know why anyone would advise against it, you get to spend a lot more time with the rabbits, they're nice and warm and safe from predators, you do have to be very careful about bunny proofing though because they can be quite destructive.

Petshops sell small hutches because most of them couldn't care less about minimum requirements, the general public want to buy 'cute' little hutches so that's what they'll sell. Just because they sell it doesn't make it right, unfortunately there's no law saying 'hutches have to be __ size'.

I think pretty much every bunny savvy person would agree that pellets are much better than meusli for rabbits. Meusli causes selective feeding and doesn't have as much fibre in as good pellets do.

For veggies I just give a good handfull of veg to each rabbit. If I give them much more I notice uneaten caecotrophs which isn't good.

As for toys wooden stuff is great. Plastic toys are fine too but just keep an eye on them, don't give them a plastic toy for the first time at night and leave them too it, watch them and check they aren't trying to chew it to pieces.
 
Interesting, I had noticed a few more caecotrophs going uneaten. Which of course brings up more thoughts...
Mother nature is fairly sorted at keeping beasties alive via food. Ruminants have their multiple stomachs to re-digest the hard to get at good bits of hay/grass, bunnies re-eat caecotrophs for the same purpose.
Now then, maybe the nutrients in fresh vegs and herbs are easier to digest and absorb than those from grass and hay and hence more caecotrophs go uneaten as they have already absorbed sufficient nutrients first time around. Bunnies tummies have not been upset, no loose stools or bloating, the caecotrophs are their normal size and texture. There has to be a good, mother nature reason that is not causing harm.
I agree that their food needs to be balanced but I doubt anyone knows to the exact leaf count how much parsley for example is ok. By the way am still an advocate of the 85% hay diet, but it is a human imposed diet. You dont see millions of rabbits flocking to hay bales and ignoring the local grass and nettles.
Sorry for going beyond "I read it in a book, therefore its true"
 
Interesting, I had noticed a few more caecotrophs going uneaten. Which of course brings up more thoughts...
Mother nature is fairly sorted at keeping beasties alive via food. Ruminants have their multiple stomachs to re-digest the hard to get at good bits of hay/grass, bunnies re-eat caecotrophs for the same purpose.
Now then, maybe the nutrients in fresh vegs and herbs are easier to digest and absorb than those from grass and hay and hence more caecotrophs go uneaten as they have already absorbed sufficient nutrients first time around. Bunnies tummies have not been upset, no loose stools or bloating, the caecotrophs are their normal size and texture. There has to be a good, mother nature reason that is not causing harm.
I agree that their food needs to be balanced but I doubt anyone knows to the exact leaf count how much parsley for example is ok. By the way am still an advocate of the 85% hay diet, but it is a human imposed diet. You dont see millions of rabbits flocking to hay bales and ignoring the local grass and nettles.
Sorry for going beyond "I read it in a book, therefore its true"

You might find this link interesting https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits in particular the reference to grass and hay.

Hay can certainly be replaced by grass or Readigrass to make up the 85%. My rabbits much prefer grass to hay and eat a much greater percentage of grass to hay when it is available.
 
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