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rabbit with e cuniculi

L

lizloz

New Kit
Ive had issues with my 3 yr old rabbit Bonnie for about a yr.

From last summer until march 16 I was messing about with her diet and changing her cage, including putting her(and her mate) outside(very successfully) because she seemed to have diarreaha. this involved regular bathing. Did my homework, changed her diet, put her on a diet, etc etc sometimes she stayed clean but i never went a fortnight without her getting messy again.
I also noticed one of her legs occasionally slipped but didnt think much of it as it only happened every now and then. She was a very high hoppy rabbit and was often over enthusiastic!!

Initially i thought she may well just be depressed, hence i moved her and her mate outside. They were much happier outside, and in a bigger posh cage, but the problems continued.
I also thought she may well be getting stressed because her mate( theyve both been done) who is a lot bigger than her was constantly mounting her, front and back! She just couldnt get away from him.
So i split them up.. she was ok with it him not so! I didnt keep them apart as she did seem to prefer to be with him.
THen earlier this year i found her a couple of times with straw tied really tightly round one of her back legs. This happened a couple of times and her leg started to look a bit lazy.
However there were weeks between it happening.
THen i found her collapsed and just going round and round in circles.
Took her to vet, who diagnosed a broken leg. She said to keep her in a restricted for a month and it should improve.

It did improve! To the extent she was fine(bar the messy bum on and off) and I put her back with her mate.
However literally the same day she collapsed again. I thought he'd damaged her to be honest and it dawned on me it could have been him the 1st time!
Guilt ridden i seperated again then i witnessed the first fit :(
I thought I was losing her, eyes rolling back head twisted towards her back, but half an hour later she was fine, but falling over still.
did more in depth homework and found everything about e cuniculi :(
Went straight back to the vet but saw the most experienced one and she agreed that it was. That was May. Shes had 28 days of penacol.
She "seems" happy as larry living on the floor of my kitchen ( i took her out of the cage as i thought the restricted room might be doing her more harm than good) but now she cant or wont get on to her back legs. She CAN as ive seen her do it and jump a few steps but as soon as she starts doing something else, ie eat, she collapses and then doesnt bother.
Some days are worse than others, her bum isnt messy anymore, I think that when the e.c started a yr or so ago she was probably just immobile during the night and stayed put whererever she was. However her leg is mostly fur less now and i have to wash her every day or so as it gets matted and of course there is the worry of burning from urine. Shes also licked all the fur off patches on her front feet. When she started getting better on the drugs she did try and clean her back end but couldnt do it unless i supported her back. Shes stopped bothering to try now! Instead she over cleans everything she can reach
I dont know what to do and I'd really appreciate some opinions.
I cant continue as we are. I will not be here most of the time soon as i have a new mostly fulltime job. I have to feed her regularly each day as she isnt drinking water from the bottle anymore.. she cant stay upright to do that!
When i bath her she kicks both her legs strongly so she does have movement. She can clearly get up sometimes but cant stay up. I can sit and literally just put a finger on her side to keep her upright and she stays upright then and can move a few paces too.
I almost feel that she just needs physio!
but at the same time she might have perm brain damage :(
But i dont know what to do to find out which it is!
My partner wants me to have her put down. I cant see that she has any quality of life but at the same time I'm sat looking at her and shes snoozing behind me on the floor with the dog trying to nick her veg!
Her mate is very very unhappy :( She doesnt seem to care as shes mostly bonded to me i think and is having lots of fuss. I dont see that they can ever live together again :(
I have split the cage up outside but she cant get in and out of it

Im afraid this is a massive ramble.. apologies.. just want to see what people who know more about rabbits than i do think and to give the full story just in case it happens to others in this way.

Ive even thought about paying someone who looks after rabbits full time to look after her(and him!)

I do know i cant keep her the way she is if she doesnt improve :( It would be unfair on my family and her as i cant give her the ft care she clearly needs.
 
lizloz said:
Ive had issues with my 3 yr old rabbit Bonnie for about a yr.

From last summer until march 16 I was messing about with her diet and changing her cage, including putting her(and her mate) outside(very successfully) because she seemed to have diarreaha. this involved regular bathing. Did my homework, changed her diet, put her on a diet, etc etc sometimes she stayed clean but i never went a fortnight without her getting messy again.
I also noticed one of her legs occasionally slipped but didnt think much of it as it only happened every now and then. She was a very high hoppy rabbit and was often over enthusiastic!!

Initially i thought she may well just be depressed, hence i moved her and her mate outside. They were much happier outside, and in a bigger posh cage, but the problems continued.
I also thought she may well be getting stressed because her mate( theyve both been done) who is a lot bigger than her was constantly mounting her, front and back! She just couldnt get away from him.
So i split them up.. she was ok with it him not so! I didnt keep them apart as she did seem to prefer to be with him.
THen earlier this year i found her a couple of times with straw tied really tightly round one of her back legs. This happened a couple of times and her leg started to look a bit lazy.
However there were weeks between it happening.
THen i found her collapsed and just going round and round in circles.
Took her to vet, who diagnosed a broken leg. She said to keep her in a restricted for a month and it should improve.

It did improve! To the extent she was fine(bar the messy bum on and off) and I put her back with her mate.
However literally the same day she collapsed again. I thought he'd damaged her to be honest and it dawned on me it could have been him the 1st time!
Guilt ridden i seperated again then i witnessed the first fit :(
I thought I was losing her, eyes rolling back head twisted towards her back, but half an hour later she was fine, but falling over still.
did more in depth homework and found everything about e cuniculi :(
Went straight back to the vet but saw the most experienced one and she agreed that it was. That was May. Shes had 28 days of penacol.
She "seems" happy as larry living on the floor of my kitchen ( i took her out of the cage as i thought the restricted room might be doing her more harm than good) but now she cant or wont get on to her back legs. She CAN as ive seen her do it and jump a few steps but as soon as she starts doing something else, ie eat, she collapses and then doesnt bother.
Some days are worse than others, her bum isnt messy anymore, I think that when the e.c started a yr or so ago she was probably just immobile during the night and stayed put whererever she was. However her leg is mostly fur less now and i have to wash her every day or so as it gets matted and of course there is the worry of burning from urine. Shes also licked all the fur off patches on her front feet. When she started getting better on the drugs she did try and clean her back end but couldnt do it unless i supported her back. Shes stopped bothering to try now! Instead she over cleans everything she can reach
I dont know what to do and I'd really appreciate some opinions.
I cant continue as we are. I will not be here most of the time soon as i have a new mostly fulltime job. I have to feed her regularly each day as she isnt drinking water from the bottle anymore.. she cant stay upright to do that!
When i bath her she kicks both her legs strongly so she does have movement. She can clearly get up sometimes but cant stay up. I can sit and literally just put a finger on her side to keep her upright and she stays upright then and can move a few paces too.
I almost feel that she just needs physio!
but at the same time she might have perm brain damage :(
But i dont know what to do to find out which it is!
My partner wants me to have her put down. I cant see that she has any quality of life but at the same time I'm sat looking at her and shes snoozing behind me on the floor with the dog trying to nick her veg!
Her mate is very very unhappy :( She doesnt seem to care as shes mostly bonded to me i think and is having lots of fuss. I dont see that they can ever live together again :(
I have split the cage up outside but she cant get in and out of it

Im afraid this is a massive ramble.. apologies.. just want to see what people who know more about rabbits than i do think and to give the full story just in case it happens to others in this way.

Ive even thought about paying someone who looks after rabbits full time to look after her(and him!)

I do know i cant keep her the way she is if she doesnt improve :( It would be unfair on my family and her as i cant give her the ft care she clearly needs.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately with EC sometimes neurological damage done can be permanent and so the symptoms may not get better. This is certainly not always the case, but it can be.

What diagnostics did the Vet do to make the diagnosis of EC ? Has spinal damage from a previous injury been totally ruled out (from Xrays?)

I expect your own research has already led you to these:

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/paralysis.html

Has any other medication been prescribed, especially a non steroidal anti-inflammatory such as Metacam ? If the Vet said that your Rabbit had 'fractured her leg' the Vet surely must have prescribed pain relief ?

The over-grooming of the areas she can reach may mean that she has some pain from urine scald in places she cant reach. Rabbits with any mobility issues can become prone to Bladder sludge, a build up of calcium deposits in the bladder. This can result in worsening incontinence and UTIs. It can sometimes be necessary for a Rabbit with mobility problems to have help to fully empty their bladder to prevent the build up of calcium deposits.

As you probably know, she is also at a very high risk regarding Flystrike

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/leaflet_pdfs/flystrike_sep_05.pdf



Sorry for asking so many questions, but it isn't really possible to give much helpful advice without really knowing why your Rabbit is partially paralysed.

I would suggest that you try to find a Rabbit Savvy Vet and then discuss all of your options with him/her. I am sorry that you are faced with this sad situation :cry: Whilst there are times when a profoundly disabled Rabbit can still have a comfortable and happy life they always need A LOT of extra care 24/7 every day. Not everyone's personal circumstances make this possible and the most humane thing then would be to allow the Rabbit a dignified passing. Sometimes letting a Rabbit go is the kindest thing to do, it does not mean that the care giver has just 'given up' on their Pet. It means that the Care giver is making a very difficult decision in the best interests of their Rabbit to ensure that their Rabbit does not suffer.

I hope that a talk with a Rabbit Savvy Vet will be of help to you xx
 
Last edited:
Hi..
Thanks for the reply
the 1st vet i saw was much younger and in experienced. She couldn't find a break but presumed it was. As X rays are expensive and stressful she suggested we just treat for a break.
She did give me matacam but it didnt really agree with her. The vet did say that as long as she was eating and drinking then she would recover and that the pain relief was to encourage her to continue to eat properly as rabbits can sometimes just stop eating if in pain. As she was eating normally anyway i took her off matacam after a couple of days.
The 2nd vet is rabbit savvy, Shes the owner of the local pracitce but i also saw her recommended on a bunny forum when researching and so i asked for her the next time i went.
I think the 1st "injury" was in fact the 1st time the ec was obvious/prolonged and that she probably didnt break her leg at all. I did read in a variety of places that they believe stress can bring on symptoms and i do think the constant attention from her mate may well be the reason shes suffering now :(

The 2nd vet did feel around for injury as well but couldnt find anything. The symptoms and all those over the last year made her come to the same conclusion as me that it was ec.

Im presuming also the fact she has movement in her legs and that she can occasionally get up and walk some steps that its not damage to spine as surely she wouldnt be able to get up at all?
Thank you for info re scalding. I wash her regularly to try and avoid that however she often manages to lie in it! She also over grooms just after I've bathed her so that might mean that I may well be hurting her when washing? :( She doesnt enjoy it but it has to be done and I do try and do it quickly

When the vet gave me metacam she did give me a higher dosage as I was away over the weekend so no one could be there to give her very regular doses. I am wondering if i should try her again but on a lower dose. I always consider metacam as a simple pain killer rather than an anti inflammatory so hadnt really considered it beyond reducing pain.

Thanks for the links too.. I'd seen a couple but not all and certainly not the disabled rabbit one!

I'm hoping I've answered all your questions. I think I will put her on metacam for a few days and see if it helps and then if not I think i will have to make the decision. :(
 
Sorryn to read of your problems. I wouldn't necessarily blame your boy as the fact he kept mounting her could point to there being something "brewing" with her, as sometimes even a slightly ill rabbit is bullied by the dominant one but excessive mounting could result in a back injury.

With regard to the dosage of Metacam, if it is the dog type then the usual dosage is 0.6ml. daily.
 
lizloz said:
Hi..
Thanks for the reply
the 1st vet i saw was much younger and in experienced. She couldn't find a break but presumed it was. As X rays are expensive and stressful she suggested we just treat for a break.
She did give me matacam but it didnt really agree with her. The vet did say that as long as she was eating and drinking then she would recover and that the pain relief was to encourage her to continue to eat properly as rabbits can sometimes just stop eating if in pain. As she was eating normally anyway i took her off matacam after a couple of days.
The 2nd vet is rabbit savvy, Shes the owner of the local pracitce but i also saw her recommended on a bunny forum when researching and so i asked for her the next time i went.
I think the 1st "injury" was in fact the 1st time the ec was obvious/prolonged and that she probably didnt break her leg at all. I did read in a variety of places that they believe stress can bring on symptoms and i do think the constant attention from her mate may well be the reason shes suffering now :(

The 2nd vet did feel around for injury as well but couldnt find anything. The symptoms and all those over the last year made her come to the same conclusion as me that it was ec.

Im presuming also the fact she has movement in her legs and that she can occasionally get up and walk some steps that its not damage to spine as surely she wouldnt be able to get up at all?
Thank you for info re scalding. I wash her regularly to try and avoid that however she often manages to lie in it! She also over grooms just after I've bathed her so that might mean that I may well be hurting her when washing? :( She doesnt enjoy it but it has to be done and I do try and do it quickly

When the vet gave me metacam she did give me a higher dosage as I was away over the weekend so no one could be there to give her very regular doses. I am wondering if i should try her again but on a lower dose. I always consider metacam as a simple pain killer rather than an anti inflammatory so hadnt really considered it beyond reducing pain.

Thanks for the links too.. I'd seen a couple but not all and certainly not the disabled rabbit one!

I'm hoping I've answered all your questions. I think I will put her on metacam for a few days and see if it helps and then if not I think i will have to make the decision. :(
Click to expand...

The dosage of Metacam is weight specific and there is a wide dose range that a Vet can prescribe. This can be anything from 0.3mg/kg/day up to 0.6mg/kg/day. If your Vet is happy for your Rabbit to be on Metacam then you could try her on the lower end of the dose range. Oral Metacam also comes in two different strengths, 1.5mg/ml (Dog Metacam) or 0.5mg/ml (Cat Metacam), so you need to be certain what strength your Vet has dispensed to you.

You are obviously doing all you can to try to help your Rabbit. As you seem to have confidence in the second Vet I would have another chat with her about what other treatment/supportive options there may be and if any of them are suitable for your Rabbit. I am sure that you will continue to do whatever is in your Rabbit's best interests, be that more ongoing treatment or by having to let her go. Obviously I hope for the former for you, but of course sometimes we just have to make that awful decision if that were to be what our Rabbit needed us to do on their behalf.
 
Last edited:
lizloz said:
Hi..
Thanks for the reply
the 1st vet i saw was much younger and in experienced. She couldn't find a break but presumed it was. As X rays are expensive and stressful she suggested we just treat for a break.
She did give me matacam but it didnt really agree with her. The vet did say that as long as she was eating and drinking then she would recover and that the pain relief was to encourage her to continue to eat properly as rabbits can sometimes just stop eating if in pain. As she was eating normally anyway i took her off matacam after a couple of days.
The 2nd vet is rabbit savvy, Shes the owner of the local pracitce but i also saw her recommended on a bunny forum when researching and so i asked for her the next time i went.
I think the 1st "injury" was in fact the 1st time the ec was obvious/prolonged and that she probably didnt break her leg at all. I did read in a variety of places that they believe stress can bring on symptoms and i do think the constant attention from her mate may well be the reason shes suffering now :(

The 2nd vet did feel around for injury as well but couldnt find anything. The symptoms and all those over the last year made her come to the same conclusion as me that it was ec.

Im presuming also the fact she has movement in her legs and that she can occasionally get up and walk some steps that its not damage to spine as surely she wouldnt be able to get up at all?
Thank you for info re scalding. I wash her regularly to try and avoid that however she often manages to lie in it! She also over grooms just after I've bathed her so that might mean that I may well be hurting her when washing? :( She doesnt enjoy it but it has to be done and I do try and do it quickly

When the vet gave me metacam she did give me a higher dosage as I was away over the weekend so no one could be there to give her very regular doses. I am wondering if i should try her again but on a lower dose. I always consider metacam as a simple pain killer rather than an anti inflammatory so hadnt really considered it beyond reducing pain.

Thanks for the links too.. I'd seen a couple but not all and certainly not the disabled rabbit one!

I'm hoping I've answered all your questions. I think I will put her on metacam for a few days and see if it helps and then if not I think i will have to make the decision. :(
Click to expand...

So sorry to read all of this :(

I really hope the Metacam helps. Regarding dosage, there's a great variation dependent very often on which vet is prescribing.

I'm sure you will know what the right thing is to do, if it comes to that.

Sending good vibes to you both xx
 
Thanks for the replies again :)

Thanks for the dosage info. Shes a bit of a skinny thing but the 1st vet had put her on higher(dog) metacam than .6 so guess all those doses will be ok. will start her on the lowest and see what happens.

fingers crossed
 
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