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Is this a high enough Metacam dose?

N

nickybunny1

Mama Doe
The vet has prescribed twice daily dog metacam 0.4ml for Cody who is 2kg . Does this sound low ?? His chloramphenicol drops finished yesterday so will see how he goes overy the weekend. He has also started to subtly move his wee head back and forth. I have attached a link. I know he looks in discomfort but I set him in the garden this evening and he is poking about a wee bit . I spoke to vet today and sent her the link so I will see how he goes over the weekend. I don't think he has much sight in his bad eye and vet didn't rule out eye removal. But she said might have to up the depocillian again. I don't know what way progress with regards to investigations or to try Tramadol first.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HsxiSWr4n88&feature=youtu.be
 
my mini lop is 1.6kg and gets 0.9ml of metacam once a day after dentals or at times of showing possible dental related issues
 
H Nicky, well my little Bailey is currently on metacam for his urine infection. He weighed in just over 2kg and he's on 0.78ml twice Daily, so from that alone... Codys amount does sound low bless him?

How is Cody doing now? Do he still seem to be in pain?, as I know eye ulcers can be quite painful and honestly if it was me I would really push for some tramadol or at least some more pain relief!! Xxx
 
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See that sounds a good level of pain relief minilop . Thanks. I wonder does anyone have a link to when the rvcs issued recommendations for rabbits for higher levels of metacam so I could show this to my vet.
 
Hi Ruthy. Sorry to hear Bailey has a urine infection. I hope that clears soon for him. Yes he does seem to be in discomfort although he is nibbling for short times in the garden. Did u see the link of the slight head movement? Is it dog metacam 1.5mg/ml as that's what Cody is on. If so I am going to increase it to 0.6ml twice a day until I can get some Tramadol posted out on Monday. I defo think he needs something stronger.
 
My bunny Bruce is currently on 0.6 mls dog metacam twice daily for a bad eye infection with lots of inflammation which has helped.Hes 3kg.

For a little while my bunny Harry(also 3kg) was up to 2mls twice daily when he had bad pain.He was also on Tramadol.That was a very high dose which we could only do for 10 days.
 
nickybunny1 said:
Hi Ruthy. Sorry to hear Bailey has a urine infection. I hope that clears soon for him. Yes he does seem to be in discomfort although he is nibbling for short times in the garden. Did u see the link of the slight head movement? Is it dog metacam 1.5mg/ml as that's what Cody is on. If so I am going to increase it to 0.6ml twice a day until I can get some Tramadol posted out on Monday. I defo think he needs something stronger.
Click to expand...

Hi Nicky, thank you! Bless him think he's had a build up of calcium too.. So he's on a little detox and off the dandelion leaves for a while. I've actually just seen the link, poor little Cody! :( he doesn't look very happy at all does he.. Honey used to do a very similar think when she had her ear infection, so it could well be a sign of pain! I'm glad to hear you can increase his metacam, it's so horrible seeing them when you know there in pain.

Honestly both honey & Harvey had tramadol and we never had no issues whilst they was on it & you could really see a difference. Honey started off on 0.3ml of tramadol tablets crushed in a water solution, and this kept her comfortable for over 3 months. Then we uped it up to 0.5ml when her infection got much worse.

Sending millions of vibes for him, I really did appreciate all your support and help with honey, you helped kept me going and we're behind Cody all the way xxxx
 
Hi Ruthy. So Honey did this also with her ear then I know for sure he is in discomfort .I am going to ring my vet tomorrow morning and see if I can get tramadol prescribed. That won't be the problem it's just they have to post it out and I bet the soonest I would have it is Tuesday . I do have some vetergesic which I know can be sedating but it would tide him over until I get tramadol but I will speak to vet before giving.

Aw thanks for vibes. They mean alot. Its lovely knowing others care about ur babies and understand the worry that they bring. The vibes for Honey and Harvey - u r welcome. There story touched so many of us and ur wee buns still hold a place in my heart too. I hope Cody can get sorted soon and wee Bailey gets through his detox !
Thanks Ruthy.x
 
Nicky I've been thinking of this since you posted, and the view I have is that vets just do not agree what the best dose of Metacam should be. It used to be thought that vets were under dosing. So doses were upped and we were all told that rabbits could have much more, and in some cases really needed it.

I have now spoken with two vets who specialise in only rabbits. One was just today, and I've been really surprised at how low they advise dosing with metacam. Both those specialists!

I am finding that the more I learn about rabbits, the more confusing the information I am getting is!

....or perhaps it's just old age :lol:
 
Yeah it's hard Max when the experts don't agree - no it not age young lady ! !! So what is ur own thoughts - higher or lower ???
 
nickybunny1 said:
Yeah it's hard Max when the experts don't agree - no it not age young lady ! !! So what is ur own thoughts - higher or lower ???
Click to expand...

Why thank you :oops:

You know I tend to oscillate with the vets :lol: Not helpful, I know - but who to trust? I think if I thought Metacam was *really* helping, then I wouldn't hesitate to give the max permitted dose. I don't always find Metacam works that well though ...

That's the subject of another thread, I think ;)
 
nickybunny1 said:
See that sounds a good level of pain relief minilop . Thanks. I wonder does anyone have a link to when the rvcs issued recommendations for rabbits for higher levels of metacam so I could show this to my vet.
Click to expand...

Poor Cody does look to have ear pain. His behaviour as seen in the video is exactly as Morse's used to be if his ears hurt. As others have said, adding Tramadol to the analgesic protocol helped A LOT and Morse had no adverse side effects at all.

These links refer to Meloxicam (Metacam) dose rates :

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/pharmacokinetics-of-meloxicam-in-rabbit-bird-and-reptile-species/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16521861

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

Your Vet should also have a copy of the BSAVA Exotics Pets Formulary which has the most up-to-date recommended dose rates

http://www.bsava.com/Publications/Membershippublications/BSAVAExoticPetFormulary.aspx

If the Vet does not have a copy then they can gain online access to the information here, assuming the Vet is a fully paid up member of the BSAVA

http://www.bsava.com/Publications/M...ticPetFormulary/Exoticpetformularyonline.aspx
 
Yes Max I do agree that its hard to know if its that good at times ill try higher dose 0.5ml this morning and evening to see.

Thanks Jane for those very helpful links. Well that's both u and Ruthy who have seen the same behaviour with ur buns with ear pain so pretty much looks like that's most likely it is. I will be ringing the vet first thing this morning and maybe can get a prescription faxed through or something to help me get the tramadol sooner. Was Morse on metacam and tramadol together for the long term ?? So should I expect Cody to end up with tramadol once a day or twice and metacam once or twice once we have both drugs? I am guesing he still needs metacam for eye imflamation .Thanks Jane for checking out the video.
 
nickybunny1 said:
Yes Max I do agree that its hard to know if its that good at times ill try higher dose 0.5ml this morning and evening to see.

Thanks Jane for those very helpful links. Well that's both u and Ruthy who have seen the same behaviour with ur buns with ear pain so pretty much looks like that's most likely it is. I will be ringing the vet first thing this morning and maybe can get a prescription faxed through or something to help me get the tramadol sooner. Was Morse on metacam and tramadol together for the long term ?? So should I expect Cody to end up with tramadol once a day or twice and metacam once or twice once we have both drugs? I am guesing he still needs metacam for eye imflamation .Thanks Jane for checking out the video.
Click to expand...

Dosing for both Tramadol and Metacam needs to be based on an individual case basis. The doses being titrated to suit the circumstances of the specific Rabbit. What would be 'right' for one Rabbit may not be appropriate for another Rabbit. Only the prescribing Vet can make a fully informed decision on the amount/frequency of dosing :)

Yes, Morse was on both Tramadol and Metacam. He did not always need the Tramadol, it was a case of adjusting his medication regime according to his specific day-to-day needs.

I hope the Vet can help Cody to feel more comfortable xx
 
Yes I understand each bun is different . I have rang the vet now - not my usual and am waiting to see if she will prescribe tramadol for him. Thanks Jane
 
nickybunny1 said:
Yes I understand each bun is different . I have rang the vet now - not my usual and am waiting to see if she will prescribe tramadol for him. Thanks Jane
Click to expand...

Hopefully she may do so if the usual Vet noted in Cody's clinical records that Tramadol has already been discussed. As it is a controlled drug the Vet you spoke with today may not be able to prescribe it without examining Cody if there were to be nothing already noted about it.

http://www.mims.co.uk/tramadol-reclassified-controlled-drug/surgery/article/1297952
 
I was thinking that Jane. I rang there but have to ring back at 11.30. I have vetergesic which was prescribed for him in December would that help if I don't get the tramadol until I speak to my usual vet on Tuesday? ?
 
Got tramadol prescribed!! Yeah!! It's 10mg tablet twice a day and Code is 2.1Kg. Hope this helps my wee dude.
 
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nickybunny1 said:
I was thinking that Jane. I rang there but have to ring back at 11.30. I have vetergesic which was prescribed for him in December would that help if I don't get the tramadol until I speak to my usual vet on Tuesday? ?
Click to expand...

I would discuss it with the Vet as she is the only one who can legally advise you to give Vetergesic. That too being a Controlled Drug.
I expect the Vet would be OK about you giving it if Cody is in pain and the Metacam is not keeping on top of it. I am sure the Vet will be mindful of the fact that Cody has two condition which both have the potential to cause a significant amount of pain (Eye Ulcer/Ear Infection) xx

ETA- I posted this before reading your update. I am really pleased that the Vet has agreed to prescribing the Tramadol xx
 
Nothing is straight forward is it arrrggghhhh! Local vet only has 50 mg which u took with the plan to divide the contents of the capsule into 5 but I am scared about giving him too much . Will have to get 10mg lifted from my vet on Monday somehow.
 
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