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Xena is wobbly. Advice re vets.

Vegan_Bunny

Warren Veteran
Sorry to make another thread but this is unrelated to my other and thought it best to post in the right section. I apologise for the long post but background is needed.

I've just gone to feed the bunnies and I noticed Xena was "off". She is eating and hopping about but there was definitely something not right with the way she was moving. I picked her up and she tried to struggle but couldn't. I lifted her up a few inches or so off the floor so her back legs dangled and she just hung there as if she couldn't actually move.
She is jumping up and down from things but is certainly not right and she seems to be struggling to see but not sure if that's just because of her odd gait.

She has had e.c before and had a seizure with it, which paralysed her front legs and left her leaning to one side (she got the use of her legs back). She is on panacur already as I had suspected a relapse when she started peeing everywhere a few weeks ago. I've given her some metacam as well just in case.

Question is: Do I just continue doing this and monitoring her condition or do I need to see an emergency vet? Unfortunately, my vets are closed until Tuesday now and the out of hours vets are not good with rabbits. :(

Thank you for any replies. X
 
If the treatment that she was on the previous time was Metacam and Panacur, then I would just give those to her and monitor her at home. Especially as your OOH vets are not good with rabbits. You are an experienced owner and I'm sure you will keep a very close eye on her. I'm not sure whether a vet needs to give you the go ahead to give Metacam. Perhaps you need to just give the OOH vet a call to confirm.

Others may have different views, but I'm just saying what I would do. Sending loads of vibes for Xena and also hugs for you. You've had a lot to cope with recently.
 
We have a bun with suspected EC (just waiting blood test result) and he is on panazcur , metacam as well as an antibiotic and gut motility meds.

In the past when one of the buns have gone into stasis because our out of hours vets aren't good with bunnies either we have given them metacam and gut motility meds as we always have bottles of these in the house and we know the doses of each bunny off by heart. We do this until we can get them to our normal vets.

If you are confident and happy to treat her then that's good but I would say that if she starts to deteriote then it may be worth an emergency vet visit. Sending massive vibes.
 
Thank you for your swift replies. :)

I have metacam in since Fiver is on it for his back. Fortunately, I know the doses and I did ask the vet about using metacam and he said he'd rather not use it unless she deteriorates so I'm confident that this is what he would advise anyway.

I've just checked on her and she's still eating and is still being a bossy bun so I think she must feel ok in herself. However, she was eating and everything only a short time after having the first seizure so I'm not entirely sure this is a good indicator of discomfort/pain for her. She's definitely being more "deliberate" in her movements and is clipping her back legs on things as though she can't properly lift them when she jumps. She can definitely see so I think she's just being careful because she's feeling dizzy...I presume rabbits become dizzy?
 
Whilst a relapse of EC is a possibility it is not the only thing that could be causing her symptoms. A spinal problem or an ear problem are other possibilities. So I would want her to be examined by a Vet ASAP to make sure that something other than EC is not being ovelooked. If Xena has any hind leg weakness after her previous EC then that could make her more prone to ear infections.

To answer your question about 'dizziness', yes any type of vestibular disease can cause a Rabbit to feel dizzy. There are medications that can be prescribed to address this,

eg Meclizine http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Meclizine.htm

Procloperazine http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Procloperazine.htm

or Cyclizine http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Cyclizine.htm

Hope the Vet can help xx
 
I have no advice to add but didn't want to read and run. I hope Xena will be okay and that these stressful times will ease up for you. Sorry you are going through so much. ((((Hugs)))) xxxx
 
I was sure I replied to this!

Xena is looking more stable today but is definitely leaning more than before. She doesn't look confused or anything anymore and is still eating.

I'm wondering if she has had small seizure and this is why she seemed quite wobbly last night.

I'm reluctant to take her to the emergency vet. They really are useless and will just give me baytril and then charge me £150 for the privilege.
 
I have been monitoring Xena closely for the past week. She has not gotten any worse but hasn't really improved so I'm a bit baffled about it. I was going to pop her to the vets yesterday but I got up and Shadowfax wasn't eating. :( I took her and she had to have a spur clipped, fortunately the vet was able to do it without anaesthetic and she was eating immediately after and has recovered completely.

I wanted to ask if it was worth doing bloods on Xena and what I should request they look for? I don't really know what else we can do apart from treating with panacur and/or metacam. We (the vet and I) both agree that we can't put her under an anaesthetic due to probable brain damage from her last seizure so this rules out radiographs and CT scans. :( I am wondering if it's just a relapse of the E.C but since she is eating, hopping about, jumping onto things, bossing the other buns about and demanding nose rubs...I'm not sure what is best for her. Do I just keep an eye on her? Or do I try to get to the bottom of it? I'm so scared about stressing her out and tipping her over the edge.

Any advice would be really helpful at this point. I feel like things are just going to get worse until I lose her. :(
 
I think it is really difficult to advise what to do. How would you try to "get to the bottom of it", if she can't have anaesthetic to have any tests done? I would not know what exactly to ask them to test for, but maybe bloods would be worth doing. Other than that, I would not know what else you could do, especially as she's relatively well in herself.

I'm sorry it must be worrying.
 
I think it is really difficult to advise what to do. How would you try to "get to the bottom of it", if she can't have anaesthetic to have any tests done? I would not know what exactly to ask them to test for, but maybe bloods would be worth doing. Other than that, I would not know what else you could do, especially as she's relatively well in herself.

I'm sorry it must be worrying.

Thanks for your reply. This is exactly why I feel like I've hit a dead end with her. :( I really don't think she'd survive any kind of sedation and as you say that rules out most tests.

I might have a chat with the vet nurse. She's a friend and she is excellent with bunnies and I wonder if she has any input.

Poor Xena. :( She really isn't right but she is OK in herself. I just worry that she's in pain or discomfort. Her kidneys and liver bloods flagged up the last time but we weren't sure if this was because she'd lost weight and was a result of the stress on her body etc. They weren't awful.. But was something we were going to monitor. However, after she had the seizure, I didn't see the point in repeating until she'd recovered so we could avoid any false results.
 
I have been monitoring Xena closely for the past week. She has not gotten any worse but hasn't really improved so I'm a bit baffled about it. I was going to pop her to the vets yesterday but I got up and Shadowfax wasn't eating. :( I took her and she had to have a spur clipped, fortunately the vet was able to do it without anaesthetic and she was eating immediately after and has recovered completely.

I wanted to ask if it was worth doing bloods on Xena and what I should request they look for? I don't really know what else we can do apart from treating with panacur and/or metacam. We (the vet and I) both agree that we can't put her under an anaesthetic due to probable brain damage from her last seizure so this rules out radiographs and CT scans. :( I am wondering if it's just a relapse of the E.C but since she is eating, hopping about, jumping onto things, bossing the other buns about and demanding nose rubs...I'm not sure what is best for her. Do I just keep an eye on her? Or do I try to get to the bottom of it? I'm so scared about stressing her out and tipping her over the edge.

Any advice would be really helpful at this point. I feel like things are just going to get worse until I lose her. :(

No idea how I missed your latest post VB, I am sorry.

As Xena appears to be coping and is 'OK' within herself maybe in her case it is 'right' to simply monitor her from day to day. Something I am sure you always do.

Blood tests might provide a bit of information, but that may not guarantee any other treatment options. And as you say, any diagnostics needing to be done under GA are not an option. I would have a chat with the Vet again and see what he/she thinks may be the best way forward. Sometimes getting answers as to what is going on is not something we can achieve. That is hard for us, but if the Rabbit is OK within themselves then it is not a problem to them at all.
 
Thank you for the reply, Jane. I spoke to my vet over the phone yesterday regarding Xena. He thinks the same as me and that there is little we can do since she's already on the panacur. We decided to try her with the metacam to see if it makes a difference. Since E.C will damage her kidneys anyway, we figured it's best to risk the metacam if there's a chance that it'll help. I'm ringing back on Friday to let him know of it's made any difference to her. Obviously it looks like the panacur isn't really working so the prognosis isn't great but I think as long as she doesn't deteriorate, it's just a case of monitoring her. :(

E.C is horrible and I'm so sad that she is poorly after her awful start in life but I'm also thankful that she seems to be coping well with all her problems.
 
Thank you for the reply, Jane. I spoke to my vet over the phone yesterday regarding Xena. He thinks the same as me and that there is little we can do since she's already on the panacur. We decided to try her with the metacam to see if it makes a difference. Since E.C will damage her kidneys anyway, we figured it's best to risk the metacam if there's a chance that it'll help. I'm ringing back on Friday to let him know of it's made any difference to her. Obviously it looks like the panacur isn't really working so the prognosis isn't great but I think as long as she doesn't deteriorate, it's just a case of monitoring her. :(

E.C is horrible and I'm so sad that she is poorly after her awful start in life but I'm also thankful that she seems to be coping well with all her problems.

Panacur can never 'cure' EC, all it can do is minimise the number of EC spores circulating within a Rabbit's blood stream.

Was Xena's EC confirmed by blood tests ?

I am glad to hear that she is doing OK within herself at the moment xx
 
Thank you for the reply, Jane. I spoke to my vet over the phone yesterday regarding Xena. He thinks the same as me and that there is little we can do since she's already on the panacur. We decided to try her with the metacam to see if it makes a difference. Since E.C will damage her kidneys anyway, we figured it's best to risk the metacam if there's a chance that it'll help. I'm ringing back on Friday to let him know of it's made any difference to her. Obviously it looks like the panacur isn't really working so the prognosis isn't great but I think as long as she doesn't deteriorate, it's just a case of monitoring her. :(

E.C is horrible and I'm so sad that she is poorly after her awful start in life but I'm also thankful that she seems to be coping well with all her problems.

I'm really sorry for your predicament :(

EC may well damage the kidneys, or have already damaged them but if it doesn't seem to be working, then perhaps there's another issue going on here. Taking Panacur *will* eradicate the parasite at the time of taking it. However, it doesn't undo any damage already done.

http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk/resources/content/info-sheets/ecuniculi.htm


I am glad your vet was able to do a conscious dental on Xena - a bonus given her anaesthetic status.

Wishing you wisdom and patience to unravel what's happening and find some sort of solution x
 
It was Shadowfax who had the dental...so far Xena has been OK with her teeth. *Touch wood*.

Jane, she did have a blood test which confirmed the e.c. Obviously it doesn't mean an active infection but the blood test combined with her original symptoms definitely suggested this was most likely the cause of her seizure and incontinence. She is definitely still not right, she is weak in her backend, which is a new symptom as it was her front legs that were affected after the seizure. The only other explanation was a brain tumor, which only a CT scan would diagnose and since she can't have an anaesthetic and there would be no treatment for a tumor we decided against that course of action.

The metacam does seem to be helping her, however. I'm wondering if maybe she has been in a bit of pain and just been hiding it very well. She looks a lot more perky and even scared the hell out of me last night by doing a DBF, something she has struggled to do lately. Perhaps she has arthritis as well and this is causing the hind leg weakness? I'm calling my vet tomorrow for a follow up on her progress and I'll mention this. It may be a case of just presuming arthritis and so managing it with pain relief. Fiver's only symptoms to his spondylosis were sore hocks and refusing to lay stretched out. Xena has callouses on her feet...not quite "sore" as yet (she's had these since I got her) and hasn't been laying down nearly as much as usual. I put that down to her feeling wobbly and so not feeling as comfortable in such a prone position.

I just want to make sure I'm doing everything possible without causing too much stress to her. She must be getting on now. She wasn't a young bun when I got her and I've had her for about 4-5 years so arthritis is a real possibility.

Why do my animals always seem to show unusual symptoms to fairly usual problems!?
 
It was Shadowfax who had the dental...so far Xena has been OK with her teeth. *Touch wood*.

Jane, she did have a blood test which confirmed the e.c. Obviously it doesn't mean an active infection but the blood test combined with her original symptoms definitely suggested this was most likely the cause of her seizure and incontinence. She is definitely still not right, she is weak in her backend, which is a new symptom as it was her front legs that were affected after the seizure. The only other explanation was a brain tumor, which only a CT scan would diagnose and since she can't have an anaesthetic and there would be no treatment for a tumor we decided against that course of action.

The metacam does seem to be helping her, however. I'm wondering if maybe she has been in a bit of pain and just been hiding it very well. She looks a lot more perky and even scared the hell out of me last night by doing a DBF, something she has struggled to do lately. Perhaps she has arthritis as well and this is causing the hind leg weakness? I'm calling my vet tomorrow for a follow up on her progress and I'll mention this. It may be a case of just presuming arthritis and so managing it with pain relief. Fiver's only symptoms to his spondylosis were sore hocks and refusing to lay stretched out. Xena has callouses on her feet...not quite "sore" as yet (she's had these since I got her) and hasn't been laying down nearly as much as usual. I put that down to her feeling wobbly and so not feeling as comfortable in such a prone position.

I just want to make sure I'm doing everything possible without causing too much stress to her. She must be getting on now. She wasn't a young bun when I got her and I've had her for about 4-5 years so arthritis is a real possibility.

Why do my animals always seem to show unusual symptoms to fairly usual problems!?

It could be that Xena has some spinal arthritis as well as her known exposure to EC. As the Metacam seems to be helping and further diagnostics are not appropriate in her case then the Vet may be happy for Xena to remain on the Metacam. It's a case of weighing up risks v benefits of doing so. Personally I have never yet had a Rabbit develop any adverse reaction when on longterm Metacam at the appropriate dose for the individual Rabbit. Yes, all drugs carry risks of side effects, but IMO there are times when the benefits of the drug by far outweigh the risks to enable the Rabbit to have a good quality of life.

I dont know if Xena would tolerate massage or even acupuncture, but if she would I have found both to be very beneficial to arthritic Rabbits who display hind leg weakness . Xena is very lucky to have such a dedicated care giver, you are doing everything possible for her whilst being mindful of what would be too much intervention in her specific case xx
 
It was Shadowfax who had the dental...so far Xena has been OK with her teeth. *Touch wood*.

Jane, she did have a blood test which confirmed the e.c. Obviously it doesn't mean an active infection but the blood test combined with her original symptoms definitely suggested this was most likely the cause of her seizure and incontinence. She is definitely still not right, she is weak in her backend, which is a new symptom as it was her front legs that were affected after the seizure. The only other explanation was a brain tumor, which only a CT scan would diagnose and since she can't have an anaesthetic and there would be no treatment for a tumor we decided against that course of action.

The metacam does seem to be helping her, however. I'm wondering if maybe she has been in a bit of pain and just been hiding it very well. She looks a lot more perky and even scared the hell out of me last night by doing a DBF, something she has struggled to do lately. Perhaps she has arthritis as well and this is causing the hind leg weakness? I'm calling my vet tomorrow for a follow up on her progress and I'll mention this. It may be a case of just presuming arthritis and so managing it with pain relief. Fiver's only symptoms to his spondylosis were sore hocks and refusing to lay stretched out. Xena has callouses on her feet...not quite "sore" as yet (she's had these since I got her) and hasn't been laying down nearly as much as usual. I put that down to her feeling wobbly and so not feeling as comfortable in such a prone position.

I just want to make sure I'm doing everything possible without causing too much stress to her. She must be getting on now. She wasn't a young bun when I got her and I've had her for about 4-5 years so arthritis is a real possibility.

Why do my animals always seem to show unusual symptoms to fairly usual problems!?

It sounds like there could well be some EC involvement.

Has your vet suggested adding Tramadol for the pain, which isn't so hard on the kidneys?

My arthritic rabbit wouldn't tolerate any hands on treatment, but she did love her carpets of very thick vet bed and a 24/7 electric heating pad. I could tell the difference the heat made to her walking/hopping and it was considerable, especially during cold weather (which I hope we won't be getting much more of!)

I think arthritis also manifests itself when the bunny can't really lie down comfortably to sleep without shifting around a bit ..
 
Thank you all for your input and support. I really do appreciate every reply.

I spoke to my vet and he agrees with me regarding the possibility of arthritis. He wants a urine sample rather than taking bloods to check her kidneys because it is less invasive and so less stressful for her. I agree with this, although it does mean a fun evening of trying to get the actual sample haha. She's a ****** and refuses to pee whenever I want a sample from her. I'm sure she knows what I'm after!

She will be going for an acupuncture session. Fiver gets this every 6 weeks and I really hope it helps Xena as much as it has helped him. I would certainly try the massage if that didn't work. She's a cuddle bun and would most likely enjoy the interaction. :) She can't get enough of nose rubs and I always give her a quick prod and poke to make sure her tum is OK and there's no lumps or bumps or sore bits and she is very good with me doing this.

I'm hoping her kidneys are ok and we can just focus on managing the possible arthritis. At least with arthritis, I know that there are quite a few options available to her and I'm quietly hopeful that we can get on top of her symptoms and she'll have a while with me yet. I do love my bolshy, bossy girl. :)
 
Thank you all for your input and support. I really do appreciate every reply.

I spoke to my vet and he agrees with me regarding the possibility of arthritis. He wants a urine sample rather than taking bloods to check her kidneys because it is less invasive and so less stressful for her. I agree with this, although it does mean a fun evening of trying to get the actual sample haha. She's a ****** and refuses to pee whenever I want a sample from her. I'm sure she knows what I'm after!

She will be going for an acupuncture session. Fiver gets this every 6 weeks and I really hope it helps Xena as much as it has helped him. I would certainly try the massage if that didn't work. She's a cuddle bun and would most likely enjoy the interaction. :) She can't get enough of nose rubs and I always give her a quick prod and poke to make sure her tum is OK and there's no lumps or bumps or sore bits and she is very good with me doing this.

I'm hoping her kidneys are ok and we can just focus on managing the possible arthritis. At least with arthritis, I know that there are quite a few options available to her and I'm quietly hopeful that we can get on top of her symptoms and she'll have a while with me yet. I do love my bolshy, bossy girl. :)

That sounds like a good plan. Xena is obviously a Bunny with attitude ! :lol:
 
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