Snuffles - indoor or outdoor housing best?

Hi everyone! :wave:

I'm pretty new to rabbits (I'm a tortoise lady) so I'm hoping you could give me some advice...

2 weeks ago we were browsing Pets at Home for some reptile stuff when we saw a little dwarf bunny in the adoption center. I'd already seen her the week before and after she had done some clever 'look at me I'm super cute' tricks, my partner decided that she had to come home with us. My partner's family have always had rabbits and they currently have a family of 5 in their garden, but I'm not very clued up on rabbits. We asked the advice of the staff and purchased a 2 storey hutch. When it came to getting the rabbit (who we have named Maude), I have never seen a rabbit struggle so much! She was like a tiny kangaroo, jumping and kicking everywhere. It took the staff members 5 attempts to get her in a carrier. We were told she was in the adoption center as she'd had a 'snotty nose' but had been cleared by the vets. She had been in a tiny glass enclosure for at least 2 months.

We got her home and let her out in the kitchen (which is tiled and free from any cables etc) while we built the hutch and then we popped her in. On the advice of my partner's Mum, we brought her in at night and sat with her to get her used to us. She was really jumpy and hid in her box mainly. We work throughout the day so we out her in the hutch during the day and kept her in the kitchen from roughly 6pm-7.30am where she could run around. After 2 days of this she was completely different and very comfortable with us. She comes to you to be stroked and follows you around. She would also binky and flop about and seemed to be really happy.

A week later I noticed she was sneezing frequently and we took her to Vets4Pets in the Pets at Home store. The vet there told us about pasteurella and gave us Baytril - 0.5ml a day. He explained that stress can make this worse and her immune system might kick in with the antibiotics, but he said the stress of moving might have made it worse. He also advised us to put her outside all the time and to get her a friend as she'd get lonely. He also wouldn't give her her vaccinations for now.

The other night we put her in the hutch over night and throughout the day. We came home from work and went to get her out for her to run around and to give her her medication and she had completely changed. She was growling and bit my partner, when previously she would come to meet us and wait to be picked up. We eventually got her inside and then decided to keep her in again overnight as we didn't want her to become 'hostile' (for want of a better word) and we'd like her to still be okay around us.

Now that the essay is over guys (sorry!!) my main question is whether we should make her a permanent indoor rabbit (in which case we would purchase all the indoor stuff and toilet train her/bunny proof the house) or whether she should be outdoors all the time? I've read some people's stories who have said outdoors helps with respiratory issues and that heating indoors can cause issues. She was very snuffly after she had been outdoors all night and day and I'm unsure what is best for her as she's been used to being inside at Pets at Home for the past 2-4 months. Also, in terms of the advice that the vet gave us regarding a bunny friend - was that good advice as her illness is infectious?

Thanks for any help guys and sorry for the massive essay! :lol:

Hello tortoise lady :lol: & a warm welcome to the forum - & indeed the joys of rabbit keeping.

Lovely to hear you have given Maude a good home & that she is friendly & content around you so soon. I'm not very knowledgeable about keeping rabbits outside but I had a snuffle bun (indoors) & she didn't pass it on to either of her bunny husbands. I do know they need consistent temperatures though so moving from inside to outside & back again is best avoided (til its warmer at least.)

I do agree with your vet that bunnies are generally happier in pairs/groups, I'd certainly prefer not to have an outdoor bunny on their own as they are social creatures & get a lot of emotional security from their own kind (plus fun & cuddles). Obviously both buns would need spaying / neutering & wee Maude would need to be well enough to be vaccinated & then have her op so it would be a while yet. Its also quite chilly out still (up here anyway) & as she is used to being inside I'd personally not make the move outside (if you do ) until its warmer. A lot of people state pine can exacerbate nasal / respiratory issues so maybe avoid using sawdust, shavings or wood based cat litter in her housing. stress & change can set off a lot of physical health problems - they are such sensitive souls

Hi Kaela,
your story sounds very familiar to me! I also got my bunny from Pets@Home and had exactly the same problem. He started sneezing occasionally and it got steadily worse. We also took him to the vets in Pets @ Home and they gave baytrill. Only problem is Milo just kept getting worse! They told us he 100% had snuffles/pastuerella and that we could never have him with a friend.
We made the decision to move Milo indoors as the sawdust in his hutch seemed to exacerbate the issue and also we had an issue with foxes trying to get at him which would make him stressed more!
What I will say is that after about a month on the Baytrill Milo had a really bad day where he could barely stand and would have his ear flat to his head. I booked an appointment with the vet at pets at home and they treated me appallingly, basically saying i was making symptoms up, and they were incredibly rough with Milo.
I moved vets and this vet told me he didn't think that Milo had pasteurella as it seemed strange that it had gotten much worse on the medication so he prescribed some anti-inflamitorys and Milo was better within 2 weeks with no further problems.
He's now being bonded at a local rescue!
I guess what i'm getting at is....if Maude doesn't improve, change vets. I was so dissapointed with the ones at pets@home x

Hello!! Thanks for your reply!

I was surprised how quickly she warmed to us and after she did that was it - I was hooked on her haha. Aww bunny husbands, how cute I'm used to keeping consistent temps for my tortoise so I know how important that is for them and I had heard it wasn't good to keep switching from outdoors to indoors. It is quite chilly here (North Wales) but the vet said she'd be fine outside. But I thought she'd have been used to warm Pets at Home - especially in a glass enclosure, that can't have been great for air circulation surely! We did discuss spaying too but the vet said to leave it awhile as that would be a stressful event too. In the hutch, I used cardboard, litter, straw (dust extracted) and hay. I added in some old material for the bed area for her to do what she wanted with. Inside she has a large box with similar bits in that she can go in. I didn't realise they were so sensitive until we got her! I should have known better to be fair because I discovered the same when I got my tortoise!! How many rabbits do you have? Are they all indoors?

Hi and welcome You haven't mentioned her having a run, is that because she only has a hutch or just because you didn't mention the run?

Kaela said:

Hello!! Thanks for your reply!

I was surprised how quickly she warmed to us and after she did that was it - I was hooked on her haha. Aww bunny husbands, how cute I'm used to keeping consistent temps for my tortoise so I know how important that is for them and I had heard it wasn't good to keep switching from outdoors to indoors. It is quite chilly here (North Wales) but the vet said she'd be fine outside. But I thought she'd have been used to warm Pets at Home - especially in a glass enclosure, that can't have been great for air circulation surely! We did discuss spaying too but the vet said to leave it awhile as that would be a stressful event too. In the hutch, I used cardboard, litter, straw (dust extracted) and hay. I added in some old material for the bed area for her to do what she wanted with. Inside she has a large box with similar bits in that she can go in. I didn't realise they were so sensitive until we got her! I should have known better to be fair because I discovered the same when I got my tortoise!! How many rabbits do you have? Are they all indoors?

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It sure is a fast learning curve having bunnies - I didn't have internet access at first - wish i had. I have 3 wonderful rescue bunnies who live inside (they are in my avatar if you can make them out)

Thanks so much for your reply!! I've thought that... I definitely will now that you've had the same experience! To start with we were also told she was allergic to sawdust and that's why she had a snotty nose. It wasn't until I done some googling before our vet trip that I knew about pastuerella. I think we'll book her in somewhere else asap as I feel that her sneezing is getting worse and I'd read other places that anti-inflammatories should be given. Baytril in my experience with hamsters and gerbils is the go-to med for any small animals - not sure how successful it is tbh. Can't believe they treated you that way - it's disgusting! You should log a complaint. I thought Vets4Pets for a rabbit would be okay as cats, dogs and rabbits are the most popular pets as in the past I've used them for hamsters and gerbils and they have been WAY off with their diagnosis - they told me my very young hamster had cancer and would need to have tumours removed - these turned out to be his scent glands!! Luckily I switched vets before they done anything to him and he lived to be 2.5 years. So glad to hear that your bunny is being bonded! How lovely for him

Aw they look adorable! It was the same with me and my tortoise Quentin, you have to learn and unfortunately you do make some mistakes along the way. The internet is great for sharing advice etc, we've just moved into our house just before we got Maude and our internet has literally only just been installed. What kind of indoor set up do you have for them?

Bunny savvy vets can be quite difficult to come buy ...we have to travel 2 hours there & back. not strictly the vets fault, their training covers very little on rabbits. Most people attempt to find a bunny expert or exotics specialist. starting a thread with "rabbit savvy vet required in ___________ area" will bring up some recommendations.
Alternatively Frances Harcourt Brown (rabbit specialist) has an owner compiled recommended vet list . I'd highly recommend reading up on the diet pages too

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/vetfinder

Kaela said:

Aw they look adorable! It was the same with me and my tortoise Quentin, you have to learn and unfortunately you do make some mistakes along the way. The internet is great for sharing advice etc, we've just moved into our house just before we got Maude and our internet has literally only just been installed. What kind of indoor set up do you have for them?

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They just roam freely. They have a big open wooden box that houses litter trays & a few cuddle zones (fleeces where they like to lie) but thats it

They told me sawdust allergy the first time too ! It's amazing that they get away with it but it seems as though this happens a lot with bunnies from P@H. xx

She doesn't have a run at the moment - we planned to get one when the weather gets warmer as there is a large patch of grass in front of her hutch. At the moment with us working during the day we didn't want to let her out on her own as there are a lot of cats in the area. We let her roam free in the house 6pm-7am at the moment

joey&boo said:

Bunny savvy vets can be quite difficult to come buy ...we have to travel 2 hours there & back. not strictly the vets fault, their training covers very little on rabbits. Most people attempt to find a bunny expert or exotics specialist. starting a thread with "rabbit savvy vet required in ___________ area" will bring up some recommendations.
Alternatively Frances Harcourt Brown (rabbit specialist) has an owner compiled recommended vet list . I'd highly recommend reading up on the diet pages too

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/vetfinder

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Thanks! Our tortoise one is an exotic one so we have to travel for him already