9 years old sick bunny

Hi all,

My beautiful girl(9 years old) started to lose weight since winter and also a week ago I noticed she wasn't using her rear feet too well. Decided to weight her and was shocked to see that she weights 2,2kg (before she had 4 / 4,5kg). She also has some sore hocks (one of the feet has it covered by fur and it's a bit hard and on the other feet is a bit red without fur) and also she is a bit dirty (yellow fur from pee) and some missing fur between her legs. She also has moments when a big egg size lump appears on her ride side below the ribs and after some time disappears.

So we've made an appointment to a vet specialized in exotic animals and didn't get any answers from him. He had like only 10 min appointments. He didn't even want to look carefully at her saying that she is like this because she is deadly skinny and has sore hocks. I've explained it to him that this is strange but nothing else came out of him. He just wanted to get rid of us quickly.

So we decided to make some research ourselves for the start and based on it we started to raise her daily food pallet/veggies and also added dried bread, washed her with hydrogen peroxide, sprayed some zinc oxide and bandaged her feet. Then we searched for another vet and today we've taken her to the new vet. The vet cut the dirty hair, made her an ultrasound where the lump appears and said that everything looks ok and that the lump probably is the kidney when she is too full. Then we decided to make an x-ray to see what the problem is with her feet. The result was that she has spondylosis on more that 80% of her spine and that is nothing that we can do except to lessen her pain with some Rheumocam (Meloxicam). Does anyone have a better experience with some other med?

I also thought of using glucosamine as I've read is good but I can only find those for humans here, for example this one (my grandma uses this for spondylosis as well and is good) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Proenzi-R...6554?hash=item3d0cdda1ea:g:~uMAAOSw5IJWfaO F
What do you say? Can this one work? How much should I give her?

There is also another thing that I don't find it right these days. She drinks water, eats well, pees but doesn't poo that much. For example in the first half of the day she doesn't poo almost at all, then she makes some caecotrophs and them normal ones. Her stomach rarely also seems to make some gas sounds. I was afraid that she might have some hair ball.
I've attached the x-ray she took. The vet that saw her and the one from where the x-ray was taken didn't mention anything saying that the abdomen looks ok. Does anyone knows how a hair ball looks on an x-ray?




Also just noticed when she was lying on her side that something seems like is moving inside her abdomen on the side that was shaved for the ultrasound. Small bunnies are out of discussion as she was spayed 8 years ago. So it kind of remind me of those alien/horror movies.
Here are some video so you can all see what I'm talking about:

What do you think? Is that normal or are those gas or something?

Hope I didn't write too much but some answers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Sorry can't help but bumping this for you.
Hope you get some answers soon.

The stomach movements in the video look like peristalsis, which is entirely normal & important part of of how rabbits process food.
Sometimes we'll see a slight back & forth roll in the fur when a rabbit is resting. It looks much more obvious here with her shaved belly!

May I ask what dose of meloxicam you bunny was put on?

Hopefully some experienced members here can shed light on the other things you have reported.

{{{Vibes}}} for your dear girl.

bisc has spondylosis and has some similar behaviours when it isn't under control - he's starts off slowly in the morning and hardly eats or poops and then as the day goes on he improves. thought to be because he starts to move around and warm up and warmth obviously helps arthritis. he also suffered with sore hocks and was dirty and stained underneath and also had the gurgly tummy and gas from the stress of the condition. he also had the weight loss aswell.

from this, i'd say it's all pain related. it takes an adequate dose of pain relief to control spondylosis. bisc for example needs 1.5ml metacam every 12hrs. he weighs just under 2.2kg. he has mild bone changes on xray but reacts badly to the inflammation around the spine. our vet said what is shown on the xray doesn't always match how bad the bunny is. he's seen some with severe bone changes but yet they don't seem as bad with the swelling and so don't appear as affected. what is important though is to bring down any swelling as soon as possible by using an adequate dose of metacam and then you can reduce, see where symptoms reappear, then start higher again and reduce to maintain just above there.

there are other pain relief meds like tramadol and also some people recommend glucosamine and also acupuncture in some cases aswell. we just use metacam for now and it's been working well, although i would say it's taken alot of months to really settle down.

what dose metacam is your bunny on and how long have you been giving it? has there been any change at all?

Thank you both for your answers.
The vet prescribed her yesterday Rheumocam (Meloxicam 1mg) 1/4 of a pill per day(after she eats something) for 6-8 days and she said we'll see after this what else we should do. The problem is that I have searches since yesterday for this med and can't find it. I'll give now some more calls and if not I'll call the vet to tell her.
So till now she hasn't been given any meds. Also I'm a bit curios how she'll take them as she never wanted to eat any pills. I have always had trouble even with pineapple juice, she runs from it like hell.

Thank you rachylou !

meloxicam is metacam :wave:

Yes, after I searched metacam before I saw too that is also meloxicam. The thing is that I can find here Metacam but this is in liquid form( and a lot more expensive as well) and I'm afraid my girl won't take it. It is a very small amount that should be given but if she refuses to take it and I have to force it on her I don't know how I'll be able to so I won't end up giving her more or less.

ps: just found Rheumocam (Meloxicam 1mg) and I'm going to buy it now.

In terms of a pill, try rolling it in a v small piece of bread. Bread is not ideal for bunnies but I have used it when all else failed for my old bun (toasted to give him something to eat when everything else was failing) and you are (understandably) giving her bread anyhow.


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v.valy said:

Yes, after I searched metacam before I saw too that is also meloxicam. The thing is that I can find here Metacam but this is in liquid form( and a lot more expensive as well) and I'm afraid my girl won't take it. It is a very small amount that should be given but if she refuses to take it and I have to force it on her I don't know how I'll be able to so I won't end up giving her more or less.

ps: just found Rheumocam (Meloxicam 1mg) and I'm going to buy it now.

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ah ok, i see. yes, it is normally given in liquid form. it can also be injected by the vet aswell. ask them about both and they may beable to order it in for you.

if you crush the tablet and mix it with something hopefully she will eat it. i know some will be fussy though! bisc would know instantly if i'd hidden anything in food :roll: is she calm being handled? if she is, you can crush it and mix it with a little water or juice then syringe it in directly

Thank you SJH and biscandmatt1 for your advice.
I managed to buy the pills and fooled her with some raisins. Cut a part of the raisin, put the crushed pill inside and closed it back. I had to use 2 raisins for the pill and another two in between those two so she will swallow those with pill inside quickly. She ate them very quickly with no problem.

That's a really good idea

Im sorry the first vet you saw wasn't very helpful but it sounds like the vet you are now seeing is much more sympathetic.
Metacam is really good for pain relief for bunnies so it should really help her.

sso glad the second vet was much more helpful for your bun x

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, the second vet was very kind and my girl was treated very good. Usually she doesn't let you do whatever you want with her but with this vet she was a very good girl. I paid the same amount of money for the both vets (for the second vet I gave a bonus because I was very glad how everything went) but the first one didn't do anything and beside that what bothered me the most was that he was an "expert" in exotic animals but he didn't know how to pick up/manage a bunny. Plus he put my girl directly on the floor to see how she is walking and that got me very mad.

I've said in my previous post that I'm thinking on giving her some glucosamine as well maybe after the 8 days treatment with Meloxicam. After searching a bit more I found Synoquin for small breed in my country as well.
This:
http://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/synoquin-small-breed-tasty-tablets-p6519.html
or this one:
https://fetch.co.uk/synoquin-efa-for-small-breed-dogs-capsules-90-per-pack-88341011

Does anyone know if the above are any good? Or can recommend other ones (maybe I can find them here as well)?

I can't give any advice on synoquin but it did come up when I did a forum search.
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/search.php?searchid=35772 I hope that link to the search results work!
I'm pretty sure you can just give human glucosamine/chondriton supplements. It's often more economical and you can avoid flavourings that are really only suitable for cats and dogs.
A vet tech once recommended cosamin ds, which she said is essentially the same as cosequin ds that is marketed for animals. This was several years ago though and there may be better products around now.

I do think you may need to discuss long term pain management plan at higher doses with the vet at the revisit. 1/4 tablet is only 0.25mg of meloxicam a day. The vet may have started out on a low dose for an 8 day trial for a reason, but long term, I suspect she'll need higher doses for spondylosis. Please correct me if I am wrong anyone. I have a bee in my bonnet about adequate pain management lately!

Thank you jerseygirl for all the info.
I don't know what the usual dose per day of meloxicam should be but after these 8 days we'll see how my girl is feeling and what the vet say.
For now, after 3 doses it seems she feels a bit better. Before starting the treatment she could barely stand up with her back feet, she dragged them a bit before standing. I also think that she put on a bit of weight as her spine doesn't feel that pronounced anymore.
The thing about how to keep her clean between her back legs is a problem. Because of the spondylosis her tails is crocked and because of that whenever she pees she does it on her leg. That's why she has no hair on the inside of that leg and also the sore feet. I'm cleaning and bandaging her every day but I'm wandering if things will improve.

We finished the 8 day treatment with Meloxicam and she is feeling a lot better. She is lively again, eats and drinks well and sometimes jumps over her litter box. We also thought that she put a bit of weight on as her spine as it isn't feeling that bad anymore but today when we weighed her she only has an extra 100-200g so not that much how we expected. The vet also said that if she is feeling ok now we can stop the Meloxicam treatment and start giving her glucosamine. We can repeat the Meloxicam treatment twice a year or when we see that she starts feeling bad again.
I've read that many give their bunnies meloxicam each day with no brakes. Am I wrong? Is it ok to stop her treatment with meloxicam?

Also what worries me a bit is that one of her ear keeps bothering her a bit especially if I massage it slightly at the base or scratch it for her. She then wants to scratch it herself but she can't reach it with her rear foot. Both myself and the vet checked her ears and they are very clean. I thought that maybe is because she can't support herself on her other foot(she has a sore and it's bandaged) so that might be why she can't lift her good foot to scratch. Could that be why? Or could this be another effect of the spondylosis? Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Could this be a sign of another problem as well? Her eye on that side is also a bit wet from time to time.

She also had some "dandruff" on her skin and in her fur. She kind of has this problem for years, sometime was very little noticeable and sometime a bit more visible. Not is a bit more visible but only if you start going through her fur. It doesn't seem to bother her, she doesn't scratch and doesn't have fur loss(only normal shedding). The vet said that we can make some tests but if she doesn't have any of these signs then it could be some sebum problem, dermatitis. What do you guys say?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

v.valy said:

We finished the 8 day treatment with Meloxicam and she is feeling a lot better. She is lively again, eats and drinks well and sometimes jumps over her litter box. We also thought that she put a bit of weight on as her spine as it isn't feeling that bad anymore but today when we weighed her she only has an extra 100-200g so not that much how we expected. The vet also said that if she is feeling ok now we can stop the Meloxicam treatment and start giving her glucosamine. We can repeat the Meloxicam treatment twice a year or when we see that she starts feeling bad again.
I've read that many give their bunnies meloxicam each day with no brakes. Am I wrong? Is it ok to stop her treatment with meloxicam?

Also what worries me a bit is that one of her ear keeps bothering her a bit especially if I massage it slightly at the base or scratch it for her. She then wants to scratch it herself but she can't reach it with her rear foot. Both myself and the vet checked her ears and they are very clean. I thought that maybe is because she can't support herself on her other foot(she has a sore and it's bandaged) so that might be why she can't lift her good foot to scratch. Could that be why? Or could this be another effect of the spondylosis? Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Could this be a sign of another problem as well? Her eye on that side is also a bit wet from time to time.

She also had some "dandruff" on her skin and in her fur. She kind of has this problem for years, sometime was very little noticeable and sometime a bit more visible. Not is a bit more visible but only if you start going through her fur. It doesn't seem to bother her, she doesn't scratch and doesn't have fur loss(only normal shedding). The vet said that we can make some tests but if she doesn't have any of these signs then it could be some sebum problem, dermatitis. What do you guys say?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

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When a Rabbit has reduced mobility they often find it difficult to groom themselves. Mobility problems effecting the hind legs can lead to the Rabbit's ears becoming mucky and ear mites/ear infections can occur. I know you have said that the Vet checked the ears, but was this recently and with an otoscope ? A reduced ability to groom can lead to the Rabbit developing fur mites, the cheyletiella mite can cause a white dandruff

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/furmite/fur_mite.htm

The fact that your Rabbit's eye is also watering might be due to a slight conjunctivitis or possibly due to dental problems. Or if there is any ear infection going on it may be effecting the eye too.

With Meloxicam how often it is given and at what dose rate is something that can only be judged on an individual case basis. With arthritic type problems it may be necessary for the Rabbit to remain on treatment daily longterm. It is a decision only the Vet treating the Rabbit can make, taking into account all the risks versus benefits.

v.valy said:

We finished the 8 day treatment with Meloxicam and she is feeling a lot better. She is lively again, eats and drinks well and sometimes jumps over her litter box. We also thought that she put a bit of weight on as her spine as it isn't feeling that bad anymore but today when we weighed her she only has an extra 100-200g so not that much how we expected. The vet also said that if she is feeling ok now we can stop the Meloxicam treatment and start giving her glucosamine. We can repeat the Meloxicam treatment twice a year or when we see that she starts feeling bad again.
I've read that many give their bunnies meloxicam each day with no brakes. Am I wrong? Is it ok to stop her treatment with meloxicam?

Also what worries me a bit is that one of her ear keeps bothering her a bit especially if I massage it slightly at the base or scratch it for her. She then wants to scratch it herself but she can't reach it with her rear foot. Both myself and the vet checked her ears and they are very clean. I thought that maybe is because she can't support herself on her other foot(she has a sore and it's bandaged) so that might be why she can't lift her good foot to scratch. Could that be why? Or could this be another effect of the spondylosis? Has anyone else encountered this problem?
Could this be a sign of another problem as well? Her eye on that side is also a bit wet from time to time.

She also had some "dandruff" on her skin and in her fur. She kind of has this problem for years, sometime was very little noticeable and sometime a bit more visible. Not is a bit more visible but only if you start going through her fur. It doesn't seem to bother her, she doesn't scratch and doesn't have fur loss(only normal shedding). The vet said that we can make some tests but if she doesn't have any of these signs then it could be some sebum problem, dermatitis. What do you guys say?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

From the symptoms you are describing, she sounds like her immune system is rather 'run down'. This can happen at any time, but with older bunnies they seem to be more susceptible to things like watery eye etc. Have a look and make sure it isn't sore, or red at all. Also the eyelids.

Regarding the 'dandruff' - this is likely to be caused by fur mites. Another sign of a weakened immune system. I usually give echinacea for boosting immune system - I don't know what form you could get it in, but it's very useful

For the fur mites, we use injections or spot on treatments of Ivermectin. This treatment is repeated every two weeks for three doses and is very effective.

Good luck with your little one

Thank you both for your reply and all the details.

No, she wasn't checked with an otoscope, just simply looked into her ears. The ear problem is from before the spondylosis symptoms started. We're going to visit the vet tomorrow to have a more detailed chat.
Also I've an eye drop (Systane ultra) into her watering eye and after a few minutes it was normal again. Beside being watery it doesn't look swollen or anything else. It just happens from time to time. The last time was at least two weeks ago. About two months ago I thought it was an allergy because of the hay so I changed it and the eye watering stopped as well. Could it be because of the air as she stays beside a door sometimes?

Here are some images of her eye after I've put the eye drops:





I also thought that the dandruff could be worse now because her immune system is week now. MightyMax can you please tell me in what form is the echinacea you are giving your bunnies?
Here are some images of her dandruff as well:





I also made a video as well. The light wasn't that good so the quality is kind of poor. Also her eyes are red because of the camera light ( not because she's mad ).
As you'll see in the video her front foot always stays more or less outside. She rarely keeps it inside like the other one. I suppose this is a spondylosis effect.
You can check the video here:
https://youtu.be/0sDjnpH6-0Y