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Propalin / Urilin Issues

Misty'sMum

New Kit
Hello,

This is my first post so hopefully I do it right, and I'm sorry for the long post! I am quite new to bunny-keeping and currently own a 5 year old (approx) rescue Rex called Max. We successfully managed to bond him (yay!) with a lovely Rex cross called Flora and they have been living together for a few months now :).

The issue is with Max and I'm really hoping that you can give us some advice. He was neutered in October in preparation for meeting Flora and all went well but in the weeks that have followed he has become incontinent, leaking quite a lot of urine. Our vet (who is not specifically a bunny vet, but is really kind and seems to be very knowledgable), did a full exploration (bloods, scans, xrays, urine tests, worming treatment, baytril etc) so we are confident that there is nothing underlying (kidney issues, e cuniculi etc). The vet has concluded that it is loss of sphincter control following the neutering and drop in his hormone levels. We have put him onto Urilin 40mg - he is technically supposed to be able to have 2 or 3 drops twice per day but it REALLY upsets his digestion (which wasn't great before). We understand that it is a side effect of the drug but he has very sensitive digestion anyway (we have to really limit his greens and he can't tolerate the excel pellets very well) so we are down to 1 drop every 36 hours. This hasn't really sorted it as he is still alternating between urine wetness as the urilin wears off and then very mucousy/soft droppings (that make him very wet and dirty) when he has a fresh dose of the meds. He is currently on the protexin pro-fibre pellets from the vet (1-1.5 egg cups per day), a ton of hay (which he loves) and very limited greens (eg 1/2 a mange tout or a couple of basil leaves per day) but his digestion is not great at all.

His lovely Rex fur needs very regular cleaning around his bottom so he is about to go back into the vets for clipping as this helped last time with hygiene (although we are now experts at cornflour and bottom baths!!). We are trying everything we can with his husbandry to avoid sore hocks - cleaning their hutch out every day, change of all litter trays 1-2 times per day (carefresh litter). Soft hay for bedding/sitting on (foam matting in their run), sudocrem if needed on any sore bits etc. We love him a lot and it is getting us down a bit as we can think of what else to do :( In himself he is a very cheeky happy bun who loves having a girlfriend to live with (who happily is totally healthy and quite naughty) :) We are more upset than him I think!

Has anyone else experienced dodgy digestion in Rex rabbits? Or side effects like this from the Urilin/Propalin? Any suggestions for additionl dietary or husbandry changes? I was thinking of asking the vet if we can get a lower strength bottle of meds as I think less would still hold off the urinary wetness.

Thanks for reading and for any advice you may have!
 
Hello,

This is my first post so hopefully I do it right, and I'm sorry for the long post! I am quite new to bunny-keeping and currently own a 5 year old (approx) rescue Rex called Max. We successfully managed to bond him (yay!) with a lovely Rex cross called Flora and they have been living together for a few months now :).

The issue is with Max and I'm really hoping that you can give us some advice. He was neutered in October in preparation for meeting Flora and all went well but in the weeks that have followed he has become incontinent, leaking quite a lot of urine. Our vet (who is not specifically a bunny vet, but is really kind and seems to be very knowledgable), did a full exploration (bloods, scans, xrays, urine tests, worming treatment, baytril etc) so we are confident that there is nothing underlying (kidney issues, e cuniculi etc). The vet has concluded that it is loss of sphincter control following the neutering and drop in his hormone levels. We have put him onto Urilin 40mg - he is technically supposed to be able to have 2 or 3 drops twice per day but it REALLY upsets his digestion (which wasn't great before). We understand that it is a side effect of the drug but he has very sensitive digestion anyway (we have to really limit his greens and he can't tolerate the excel pellets very well) so we are down to 1 drop every 36 hours. This hasn't really sorted it as he is still alternating between urine wetness as the urilin wears off and then very mucousy/soft droppings (that make him very wet and dirty) when he has a fresh dose of the meds. He is currently on the protexin pro-fibre pellets from the vet (1-1.5 egg cups per day), a ton of hay (which he loves) and very limited greens (eg 1/2 a mange tout or a couple of basil leaves per day) but his digestion is not great at all.

His lovely Rex fur needs very regular cleaning around his bottom so he is about to go back into the vets for clipping as this helped last time with hygiene (although we are now experts at cornflour and bottom baths!!). We are trying everything we can with his husbandry to avoid sore hocks - cleaning their hutch out every day, change of all litter trays 1-2 times per day (carefresh litter). Soft hay for bedding/sitting on (foam matting in their run), sudocrem if needed on any sore bits etc. We love him a lot and it is getting us down a bit as we can think of what else to do :( In himself he is a very cheeky happy bun who loves having a girlfriend to live with (who happily is totally healthy and quite naughty) :) We are more upset than him I think!

Has anyone else experienced dodgy digestion in Rex rabbits? Or side effects like this from the Urilin/Propalin? Any suggestions for additionl dietary or husbandry changes? I was thinking of asking the vet if we can get a lower strength bottle of meds as I think less would still hold off the urinary wetness.

Thanks for reading and for any advice you may have!

From what you have posted I am assuming that all tests came back as normal ?

Before starting the Propalin did Max have any GI tract problems ? I have had numerous Rabbits who could not tolerate a pelleted feed at all, especially Excel. I prefer to feed a pellet free diet. So a variety of hays, grass, dried and fresh forage and some fresh herbs. I seldom feed any type of veg at all. I have one Rabbit who came to me with a severe GI tract problem and it took almost a year of 'fine tuning' his diet to find one that kept his symptoms under control. Removing all hard feed (pellets etc) from the diet was an essential.

With regards to the propalin, none of my past or present Rabbits have ever had a need for it. But I know of a few Rabbits who have been prescribed it. AFAIK none had any adverse side effects. Just recently an RU member (bunny babe) has had it prescribed for one of her Rabbits. You could drop her a PM incase she does not see your thread.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?453073-Propalin-for-Incontinence-dosage
 
Removing all hard feed (pellets etc) from the diet was an essential.

I would be tempted to look at this aspect aswell. Pro Fibre is an excellent product, certainly it has done wonders for many a poorly rabbit in my house, but it didn't suit them all.

You could look at some alternatives if you still want to include some prebiotics, such as Fibreplex, Bio Lapis or Avipro.

I also don't feed any veg to tummy buns, I stick to herbs and dried forage. Dill is a nice gentle one for tummy buns.

Aside from that I'm really not sure what else to suggest as it sounds like you are doing an excellent job.
 
Hello,

This is my first post so hopefully I do it right, and I'm sorry for the long post! I am quite new to bunny-keeping and currently own a 5 year old (approx) rescue Rex called Max. We successfully managed to bond him (yay!) with a lovely Rex cross called Flora and they have been living together for a few months now :).

The issue is with Max and I'm really hoping that you can give us some advice. He was neutered in October in preparation for meeting Flora and all went well but in the weeks that have followed he has become incontinent, leaking quite a lot of urine. Our vet (who is not specifically a bunny vet, but is really kind and seems to be very knowledgable), did a full exploration (bloods, scans, xrays, urine tests, worming treatment, baytril etc) so we are confident that there is nothing underlying (kidney issues, e cuniculi etc). The vet has concluded that it is loss of sphincter control following the neutering and drop in his hormone levels. We have put him onto Urilin 40mg - he is technically supposed to be able to have 2 or 3 drops twice per day but it REALLY upsets his digestion (which wasn't great before). We understand that it is a side effect of the drug but he has very sensitive digestion anyway (we have to really limit his greens and he can't tolerate the excel pellets very well) so we are down to 1 drop every 36 hours. This hasn't really sorted it as he is still alternating between urine wetness as the urilin wears off and then very mucousy/soft droppings (that make him very wet and dirty) when he has a fresh dose of the meds. He is currently on the protexin pro-fibre pellets from the vet (1-1.5 egg cups per day), a ton of hay (which he loves) and very limited greens (eg 1/2 a mange tout or a couple of basil leaves per day) but his digestion is not great at all.

His lovely Rex fur needs very regular cleaning around his bottom so he is about to go back into the vets for clipping as this helped last time with hygiene (although we are now experts at cornflour and bottom baths!!). We are trying everything we can with his husbandry to avoid sore hocks - cleaning their hutch out every day, change of all litter trays 1-2 times per day (carefresh litter). Soft hay for bedding/sitting on (foam matting in their run), sudocrem if needed on any sore bits etc. We love him a lot and it is getting us down a bit as we can think of what else to do :( In himself he is a very cheeky happy bun who loves having a girlfriend to live with (who happily is totally healthy and quite naughty) :) We are more upset than him I think!

Has anyone else experienced dodgy digestion in Rex rabbits? Or side effects like this from the Urilin/Propalin? Any suggestions for additionl dietary or husbandry changes? I was thinking of asking the vet if we can get a lower strength bottle of meds as I think less would still hold off the urinary wetness.

Thanks for reading and for any advice you may have!

Hi there and welcome to the Forum :wave:

I have had a rabbit taking Propalin, but it sounds from what you've written that the meds aren't really addressing the issue. Or maybe it's because at that low dose (because of affecting his digestion) it's not working effectively?

I think you are right - you are more upset about it than he is!

He sounds to have very little veg at all, but you could cut this out for a while and major on different types of hay and readigrass? I have also found that Oxbow bunny basics sometimes work when all pellets give rabbits soft poos on a regular basis. You could perhaps reduce (very slowly) the amount of pellets and see where that takes you.

None of these things will address the issue of leaking though. Has the vet suggested you see a specialist to talk about other options to keep him clean?

He sounds absolutely delightful :D
 
:wave: Thanks Jane, spotted this.

Jane has put one of my threads and I also had this:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?450274-Urinary-infection-update-Propalin

My female bun was prescribed Propalin along with Baytril.

Like you, we had all tests done and they came back clear.

We tried septrin (which had helped previously), penicillin, worming, metacam. These were over about 3-4 months.

This year it was really bad so I had read that propalin along with Baytril was successful. As we were desperate and tried other meds I asked my vet if we could try the combination and we gave it a go. The first time I gave the propalin I think I got mixed up with the dosage and was not giving enough so I gave it another go. Cassie's urine was very strong smelling so I did also suspect uti.

I am not sure what did actually work but she is now dry. She was on Baytril/Metacam/Propalin. Baytril was for about 12 days and then stopped. After the combination of these she started to be dryer after about day 5. We continued with the Metacam and Propalin. We then stopped the metacam to see what happened for a week. She was still dry. This Wednesday we stopped the Propalin and so far she is dry.

We have also cut back on the amount of greens given too, especially kale even though excess calcium was not suspected.

The metacam was in case it was arthritis related and maybe not holding herself right.

Whilst on the Propalin only there have been excess caetrophs (sp) but she does sometimes have that anyway. She is a great hay eater and pellet wise she has Oxbow Bunny Basics.

I hope you can find a solution as I know it is worrying.
 
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