Anyone had a Rabbit with occasional days of intermittent pain in intestines?

Peach Blossom is a c8 months lionhead lop who had a rough start in life - including probably being mistreated or mishamndled, and then being purposely left near a rubbish chute, rescued, having a pretty bad spay, having area of post spay infection on the uterine stump that was not picked up by the vet that spayed her (NOT mine) , having to have a further major operation to remove infection (by my vet so good op.) , and now being left with a slightly thickened wall in part of small intestine (found on ultrasound scan).

The cause of the thickening may be trauma, or possibly resulting from old bacterial infection to do with the post spay infection.

So thats the background . .

Now the on-going problem -

On an occasional irregular basis (about one every 2 weeks) she will have discomfort in her stomach.

This does not appear to me to be a classic 'stasis' or have involvement of gas, or bloat or anything of that sort of nature as the position she sits in, feel of stmach etc etc do not seem to have any gas involvement, - but instead from her general demeanour and movements there is a slight general discomfort accompanied by a sort of 'wariness', with then every few minutes a 'jab' of pain.

On these days (it generally lasts about 12 hours) she will be very very picky about food - just eat grass or apple sticks, or fresh geranium leaves, or hay, and even then cautiously as though anxious this will cause the jab of pain.


Her poos are generally small anyway, and she does not get sloppy or enlarged poos associated with the episodes.

She has always been a bit 'take it or leave it' with her caecal pellets.

She is on ranitidine and metacam every day (started this after last episode and it seemed to be working well and she had fabulous appetite at first on it so sorry to see she is having another episode now ) , and also in the past and today when she has the episodes we have given metaclopromide.


`Obviously I would like to help her get over the episodes quicker or preferably not have them at all.

Has anyone any ideas/experience of same/ ??

Sorry for the long essay but hoping for ideas.

Also ideas of what to try and give her in the way of gentle meds would be good (would biolapis help at all??)

She is by the way quite a stressy bun - suspect she was really mishandled when very young.



PS scan showed nothing odd in bladder or kidneys etc etc.

PS the way she 'looks' when she is going through these looks to me like the way people look when they have 'heartburn/ulcer etc' -

would this fit with a thickening? If so anything other than/as well as ranitidine? and how will the metacam affect this do you thinK? (we give it with ranitidine for its anti inflammatory effects)

Have you tried daily peppermint tea?

I have tried offering fresh mint this eve and she is not that interested - I was hoping she would be. Not sure how to get her to take any significant amount of mint tea.

She is petrified of things near her face - so the small amount of medicines she is currently having twice a day are as much as she can handle. Larger quantities by syringe would be tricky.

We could offer it in a saucer I guess and just ope she takes it. She is NOT a big drinker at all.

When I had my bunnies with gut issues, daily peppermint tea really helped them, but they absolutely hated it so I had to syringe it. Some of the bunnies on RU seem to love it - I wonder whether they are in the majority or minority!

I shall try making some tea and see if she will take it by syringe with her morning meds.Even if its only a very small amount.

Good luck! I used to give 1 ml twice a day, but that was just a random amount I came up with.

Sorry this will be worded in an abrupt manner

Dermot had ongoing episodes of abdominal pain but he was NEVER in gut stasis

All diagnostics drew a blank, only other option was a laparotomy, not something I wanted do proceed with

My Vet sought advice from an Exotics Specialist and sent him copies of all diagnostic results

Specialist advised treating Dermot as if for Pancreatitis- he was put onto abx, Ranitidine, Sucralfate, a lowish dose Metacam and if necessary (due to a severe pain episode) Tramadol. He also had SQ Fluids. He remained on this regime for about 3 weeks.

He was taken off ALL pelleted feed, all brands exacerbating his problems, and he had just a tiny portion of Rabbit Royale (to keep weight on him) along with a variety of hays ad lib and fresh corriander daily . *NO OTHER VEG, NO 'TREATS'

After the initial treatment regime prescribed by the specialist Dermot remained well for several months. He did replase, but he was never as ill as during the initial episodes. The relapse was treated in the same way as the initial treatment and again Dermot recovered. He went on to live to be almost 11. The 'episodes' began when he was about 3. At first they occurred every couple of weeks. Once the Specialist's prescibed treatment was given the 'episodes' became less and less frequent, every 3-4 months at most and much less severe

Thank you JJ - I greatly appreciate you taking the time and effort to reply given your own issues at present. My vet is cautious about abx as we do not know what if any bacteria are present so its a bit of a blind prescribing - but I do feel after this last episode that maybe we should try something. I realise its a very long time go but winder if you recall which abx you used?

This morning she is fine again and did a lot of poos overnight - they are well formed an the same size as normal but a bit 'wet' or slimier than her usual ones. Lovely when you get out of bed on the bedrom rug with bare feeT!! Did I mention she has no real concept of litter training??? except for pee - mostly.

I see the vet treated 'as if for Pancreatitis' - was it thought that was the issue or just something like? Sorry to add follow ups. If you cant manage answering then dont worry and just have my real thanks for answering my initial answer. Very helpful indeed.

PS abrupt fine by me! easier to read and digest.

I am naturally too wordy by nature . . and because in real life I am paid to write words . .

parsnipbun said:

Thank you JJ - I greatly appreciate you taking the time and effort to reply given your own issues at present. My vet is cautious about abx as we do not know what if any bacteria are present so its a bit of a blind prescribing - but I do feel after this last episode that maybe we should try something. I realise its a very long time go but winder if you recall which abx you used?

This morning she is fine again and did a lot of poos overnight - they are well formed an the same size as normal but a bit 'wet' or slimier than her usual ones. Lovely when you get out of bed on the bedrom rug with bare feeT!! Did I mention she has no real concept of litter training??? except for pee - mostly.

I see the vet treated 'as if for Pancreatitis' - was it thought that was the issue or just something like? Sorry to add follow ups. If you cant manage answering then dont worry and just have my real thanks for answering my initial answer. Very helpful indeed.

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I have no longer got the copies of the blood tests but the Specialist felt there was sufficient evidence from them to suspect 'something like' pancreatitis. The abx was 'just' Baytril.

Dermot never had any abnormally soft/wet poo. It just went slightly smaller during a 'pain episode'. His presenting symptoms were VERY sudden onset and severe abdominal pain. Rather like colic. He would go completely flat and his temperature would plummet. He obviously stopped eating BUT he was never in true gut stasis- always had some output and good gut sounds.

Has your Vet considered dietary intolerance ? This appears to be an issue for Lord H. He cannot have ANY type of hard feed. He can only have hay (various types) and dried forage. Grazing on fresh grass needs to be carefully controlled and avoided when the grass is at it's richest. However, Lord H has no pain with his GI tract problem. Thankfully at the moment on a very rigidly controlled diet, he is doing well.

That was another thing that really helped my two buns (although they did go into stasis, so different to this case). They could tolerate absolutely no veg or hard feed, and were a whole lot better off on hay and a pinch of dried herbs twice a day. They couldn't tolerate grass either.

interesting Sarah - do you mean fresh grass on dried - and was that lawn turf or meadow grass rough style?

JJ

Thankfully Peach Blossom is not that drastic in her episodes at present - its like watching someone with a very mild or small ulcer who has had something slightly acidic.

Its the known thickening of the Small intestine that is throwing a sort of 'added extra' into the pot I guess so we are all trying to think beyond dietary intolerance. but that may just be a red herring (the thickening)

We have 6 indoor rabbits at present and three are totally free ranging in the house, the other three do often not leave the the conservatory by their own choice, but Peach Blossom is a totally free ranging one, so separating foods is tricky (very) but I am hoping she will 'self select' if there is enough of the foods that do not upset her constantly available.

Is there any sign of enlargement of the mesenteric lymph nodes ?

parsnipbun said:

interesting Sarah - do you mean fresh grass on dried - and was that lawn turf or meadow grass rough style?

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Lawn type turf, I guess. Although, as I recall, dried grass wasn't tolerated either. I have no idea why grass was such a problem.

Jack's-Jane said:

Is there any sign of enlargement of the mesenteric lymph nodes ?

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The vet didnt mention it and we had a long conversation and he is very thorough. She has been examined several times and had a practically whole body ultrasound scan.

He was also looking for signs of lymphoma so `i guess he would have checked.