Bonded pair fell out :-(

UPDATE AND MORE QUESTIONS ON #15

Came into the craft/bunny room yesterday morning to find chunks of fluff everywhere and Poppy hiding in a corner of the wooden house.
I checked her over and put her back down near the house so she could go back in and Francis launched himself across the room and starting chasing and biting her.
I got bitten by him whilst trying to seperate them too, my first bunny bite!
Both have been checked over and are fine apart from missing fluff and a small scratch to Francis' ear. Poppy however was quite shaken up bless her, but has improved a lot since then.
Ive had to set up the indoor cage and have one in there and one free roam in the room and switch them every few hours.
They seem to just ignore each other completely now.
We think it was the new single wardrobe we put in on Monday which has a full length mirrored door on it. They showed no interest in it tbh but we figure it was this. The bottom 3ft has now been covered with sticky back plastic so they cannot see anything at all.

I contacted Alice at Windwhistle to ask what to do (she bonded them) and she suggested:
- Car ride with them in the same carrier (we don't have a car so we have to wait for someone to be able to do this with us)
- Then into a small neutral territory (of which we have little of so it will have to be the double shower cubicle downstairs) for 24 hours
- If that works then throughly clean and rearrange the bunny room and then put them back in and monitor

Luckily i have some holidays booked starting on Friday which i can use to rebond them.
Feel mean having to seperate them for five days with the cage but i don't want any injures and i want them to still be together to some degree. Unfortunately the bunny room cannot be split up or anything either. But its only short term.

Doesn't make me feel any better :-(
I was quite upset yesterday at the whole thing. Poppy is so small and was so upset :-(

Guess i just wanted some prayers and advice if anyone has anything to add

i don't have any advice, but am sending positive vibes that they find their bunny love for each other again

I'm so sorry this has happened Your rabbits seemed so cuddly together.

I think Alice's advice is very good and in your circumstances it's what I would do.

Silly rabbits if it was the mirror on the wardrobe :roll: Referred aggression from a reflection I suppose. Rabbits are so complex creatures. Wishing you the very best of luck for a successful re-bonding.

Oh no, I'm sorry Poppy and Francis have fallen out I hope you manage to rebond them again.

So sorry they've had a falling out My bonded pair had a big fight once so I had to keep them separate for a couple of days until I had the time to rebond them, popped them in a neutral pen and they were fine with each other from then on and they were fighting awfully before! I hope this will be the same for you, best wishes

They are still disinterested in each other when seperated by the cage, its quite sad.
Poppy ran out of the cage before i had chance, so they met and were fine for all of five mins before the circling started (by Francis) and then Poppy seems to take great offence to it and runs away which causes Francis to chase and bite fluff out. They they just full frontal fight.
I grabbed a tray and seperated them but he was so intent on getting to her :-(
Francis now spends the night in the cage and then Poppy spends the day in there to balance it out.
It makes me feel awful but there isn't anything else i can do :-(
I really hope they will rebond, so stressful :-(

Omg that is upsetting and stressful for all of you,and I thought that this wouldn't really happen beings they have been spade and neutered,whale it just goes to show that getting the pair done don't always work out.ive only ever heard of this happening once but it worries me now because I will be getting both my pair done in a couple of months for them to live together so I hope they bond urghhhhhh ��

Bonding

Is it true that basically it is the luck of the draw with bonding that 2 babies of the same sex from the same litter could actually get on living together without fighting if they have not been spade ?? As I've spoken to a friend of a friend and she had no problem with fighting of her two sisters that was from the same litter living together ,as I've not heard of any stories that have been a success bonding .

Today is the day!
One car ride in the middle of this storm Imogen will hopefully help them bond (vey windy and rainy here).
Then sraight into the double shower cubicle which ive lined with towels and blankets, two small litter boxes, hayrack with hidden herbs/pellets and fibafirst and a water bowl.
Hopefully that will be enough to keep them occupied, i have toys to give them a little later also if they manage to not fight!
Taking a spare carrier in the car just in case they start fighting in the one together.
Have no idea what to expect, am terrified.
Poppy has a bite on her side from the first fight which is now a massive scab :-( shes far too small to be on tbe receiving end of Francis' rage!
Please all pray for happy bunnies for us

Sending many happy bunnies vibes to Poppy and Francis. I hope they behave nicely.

Cheryl 1973 said:

Is it true that basically it is the luck of the draw with bonding that 2 babies of the same sex from the same litter could actually get on living together without fighting if they have not been spade ?? As I've spoken to a friend of a friend and she had no problem with fighting of her two sisters that was from the same litter living together ,as I've not heard of any stories that have been a success bonding .

Click to expand...

The problem is when you have 2 sisters together unneutered , one will always boss the other. This can lead to fallouts. Even when they are neutered they can still fall out, but not always.

The car ride went very well, no fighting or anything. Lot of panting and runny noses and snuggling up. We came home after 45 mins as i was feeling rather sick myself!
They are now on the shower cubicle and seem to be fine, washing and eating etc.
Francis has thumped a couple of times but thay may be because it smells of raccoon in here as our pet one is currently feeling unwell and is in a crate in the bathroom recovering temporarily!
How long should i keep them on the shower before transferring them back into the craft room?

After at least forty eight hours with no chasing/humping/fur pulling.

And then back into the craft room once it has been cleaned and rearranged?
Will i need new litterboxes?

So far all we have had is one humping session where Francis mounted Poppy around five times over two minutes. He was quite gentle with no scrabbling ot nipping and Poppy just sat and ignored his advances and nudges. Francis soon lost interest and went back to eating.
Ive noticed now that they are in neutral territory that it is Francis who is more dominant (ive heard usually the female is). He will full flop next to Poppy whilst she stays in the loaf position to guard, he nudges her out of the way of food so he can sniff first (but they do share and she does eat, i checked that).
Francis will also stick his head under Poppy's chin to demand grooming and he nudges her a lot to say move or hello, something which Poppy rarely does.
She also submits with her chin on the floor very easily.
They both eat, sleep, flop and groom whilst in there together though and they seem to be using the two litterboxes i put in
.
I have a few questions:
Would it be better to put two litterboxes in the craft room when they go back in so they can have some space? (instead of one large one)
Is it ok for one rabbit to be this dominant? Does it make for a fragile bond?
Am i making things worse by being more affectionate with Poppy? Should i make sure i stroke both at the same time and give the same amount of kisses etc (Poppy naturally loves fuss and having kisses as we were on our own for months, whereas Francis will not always be stroked and wont give me kisses at all, he is getting a lot better but he is still very independent).

Is there anything i could do to help reinforce the bond once in place? Or to help maintain it for them?

No advice I'm afraid as no experience in bonding, but lots of vibes sent for your two lovely rabbits.

There is usually one dominant rabbit. I dont know about the affection (from you) thing as all mine loathe any kind of human interaction (except being fed)!

I always have a litter tray each and scatter feed to reduce the need for chasing. Frosty (head of the quad) still does chase everyone at food time but they have plenty of eating places to go to so no problems.

Hope your two settle once they are back in their room.

We have four trays in total for our two girls.
Two downstairs which rarely get used. One extra large one outside their hutch in their bedroom, and one small one inside their hutch.

We scatter feed too, but Daphne (dominant) will still chase & mount Phoebe when it comes to their food cupboard being opened. Daphne does a lot of mounting in all honesty but it mainly tends to be when she thinks there is fresh hay or veg as she always wants first dibs on the best bits. I don't think it really affects the strength of their bond as they seem to idolise each other.

I'm not sure about the affection thing... Phoebe seems to get a little jealous when we give Daphne kisses and will come hopping over for a kiss too but doesn't seem to want strokes like Daphne. When bonding them we put the both side by side (so they were touching) and stroked them both at the same time.