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Starving rabbit...

binkybunnyox

binkybunnyox

Warren Scout
Hi,

I've not really been on since losing my beautiful girly pepper.
But once again am hoping you amazing guys can help me out :D

We recently adopted a bonded pair of neutered girls in October. When we picked them up one had a runny eye, they had been to the vets with the bunny & had been told that her runny eye was due to her been so hairy (she's a lionhead) they gave us eye drops that she had been prescribed and we took her home.

A couple days after bringing them home and letting them settle i took them to my vets because I was concerned that she had a blocked tear duct and knew this could be related to teeth and long molar roots. My vet confirmed my suspicions that she needed dental work. So we did a dental on her and xrayed her skull at the same time and turns out she had long molar roots.

At the start of the year i noticed that she was really thin and looked as if she had lost a lot of weight. We took her to the vets again, her weight was down to 1.37kg ! It was previously 1.63kg she also prescribed more eye drops as her runny eye just never seems to stop and we had to revisit in 2 weeks to weigh her. She's now down to 1.35kg, when you pet her you can feel every single bone in her spine, she is just wasting away to nothing right in front of me. I don't know what to do. We have added in porridge, junior nuggets and parsnips etc to her usual diet of hay greens and nuggets but she is still extremely thin. The vet had took blood to send away to the lab and got the results today, she says the bloods indicate that she is starving :shock::cry: Ive to separate her from her partner to keep a closer eye on her. I know that she has been eating as I watch them at feeding time and it's her partner that has to steal food :lol: & we feed her porridge seprate from her partner.

I'm just at a loss. I have no idea what to do with her. She eats like a horse so I have no idea why her bloods indicate that she is starving !
 
binkybunnyox said:
Hi,

I've not really been on since losing my beautiful girly pepper.
But once again am hoping you amazing guys can help me out :D

We recently adopted a bonded pair of neutered girls in October. When we picked them up one had a runny eye, they had been to the vets with the bunny & had been told that her runny eye was due to her been so hairy (she's a lionhead) they gave us eye drops that she had been prescribed and we took her home.

A couple days after bringing them home and letting them settle i took them to my vets because I was concerned that she had a blocked tear duct and knew this could be related to teeth and long molar roots. My vet confirmed my suspicions that she needed dental work. So we did a dental on her and xrayed her skull at the same time and turns out she had long molar roots.

At the start of the year i noticed that she was really thin and looked as if she had lost a lot of weight. We took her to the vets again, her weight was down to 1.37kg ! It was previously 1.63kg she also prescribed more eye drops as her runny eye just never seems to stop and we had to revisit in 2 weeks to weigh her. She's now down to 1.35kg, when you pet her you can feel every single bone in her spine, she is just wasting away to nothing right in front of me. I don't know what to do. We have added in porridge, junior nuggets and parsnips etc to her usual diet of hay greens and nuggets but she is still extremely thin. The vet had took blood to send away to the lab and got the results today, she says the bloods indicate that she is starving :shock::cry: Ive to separate her from her partner to keep a closer eye on her. I know that she has been eating as I watch them at feeding time and it's her partner that has to steal food :lol: & we feed her porridge seprate from her partner.

I'm just at a loss. I have no idea what to do with her. She eats like a horse so I have no idea why her bloods indicate that she is starving !
Click to expand...

Did the Vet clarify exactly what abnormalities in the blood profile indicated 'starvation' ?

For example did the Vet comment on the Liver Enzymes ?

Did the Vet suggest worming your Rabbit and also taking a fecal sample for testing for Coccidia ?
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Did the Vet clarify exactly what abnormalities in the blood profile indicated 'starvation' ?

For example did the Vet comment on the Liver Enzymes ?

Did the Vet suggest worming your Rabbit and also taking a fecal sample for testing for Coccidia ?
Click to expand...

Jacks Jane I actually asked for a copy of the blood work so have the results :lol:
The lab were unable to perform haematology as the blood has clotted so we are going tomorrow for more blood to be taken. On her biochem she has high potassium and CK (I think the vet said these point toward muscle damage, she has quite alot of muscle wastage, but can't remember exactly, will clarify tomorrow) her alt and bile acids are slightly raised too. She also has low phosphate, globulin & urea.

We have already wormed them with panacur for 9 days was thinking about just doing the 28 days ? will ask my vet about faecal testing tomorrow. she does have very small poos...
 
could she also be having an issue that she eats more slowly or even that it hurts when she eats ? I would try soaking the pellets and see if she has a faster uptake - or even trying supplemental syringe feeding.
 
She does seem to eat more slowly than what pepper did, she also seems to chew? food more, even porridge which is quite soft but pepper practically inhaled food, she didnt come up for air once the food bowl was down until it was empty :lol: so I thought maybe she just seemed slow because i was so used to pepper. Will try soaking her nuggets tonight for her
 
binkybunnyox said:
She does seem to eat more slowly than what pepper did, she also seems to chew? food more, even porridge which is quite soft but pepper practically inhaled food, she didnt come up for air once the food bowl was down until it was empty :lol: so I thought maybe she just seemed slow because i was so used to pepper. Will try soaking her nuggets tonight for her
Click to expand...


Sadly, this sounds familiar to me. I think you could get her teeth looked at, it's often the cause of the problem, even if it was just a short amount of time ago that they were treated.

Does your vet have to give a GA for dentals? I know someone who can examine teeth without the need for G.A. which is incredibly useful for fragile dental buns ...

Can you syringe feed a bit to build up stamina and weight ...... ?
 
MightyMax said:
Sadly, this sounds familiar to me. I think you could get her teeth looked at, it's often the cause of the problem, even if it was just a short amount of time ago that they were treated.

Does your vet have to give a GA for dentals? I know someone who can examine teeth without the need for G.A. which is incredibly useful for fragile dental buns ...

Can you syringe feed a bit to build up stamina and weight ...... ?
Click to expand...


My vet can examine her teeth without ga. But if she needs more work she would need to have a ga. Can try syringe feeding but she eats quite well she's just a bit slow, will get some recovery food tomorrow at the vets. Have just gave her porridge which she scoffed :D is porridge ok to be feeding often ? I'm not sure how well they digest oats and don't want to make her any more unwell..

Do you think her elongated molar roots could be part of the problem ?
 
Last edited:
yes the roots will put pressure on other parts and be sore if they are elongated. Try and build her up with syringe feeds and mushy food and very very soft pellets (check they are not still hard in the centre as that gives a surprise pain which is worse).

If she takes very well to all that then it does point to teeth/roots/

you should be able to get an xray with only a slight ga - or even none if she is placid -
 
I'd suggest completely swapping to junior nuggets for now, and soften them with water as suggested and feed them with her separated so she can take her time and you don't end up fattening up her partner :) I'd also suggest feeding a slightly higher daily ration, but split it into maybe three feeds instead of 1-2. That way you can keep topping her up. Porridge is a great idea, it might be worth adding a vitamin powder to that, or you can mix in a recovery food or crushed pellets - again just making sure she gets the calories and vit&mineral mix.

Does she eat hay at all?
 
binkybunnyox said:
My vet can examine her teeth without ga. But if she needs more work she would need to have a ga. Can try syringe feeding but she eats quite well she's just a bit slow, will get some recovery food tomorrow at the vets. Have just gave her porridge which she scoffed :D is porridge ok to be feeding often ? I'm not sure how well they digest oats and don't want to make her any more unwell..

Do you think her elongated molar roots could be part of the problem ?
Click to expand...

A vet should be able to not only see what needs doing, but also do it without the need for GA. Some vets lack the confidence or ability to do this. I don't see why he can examine her teeth without GA but needs GA to do any dental work?

Porridge is fine to feed. In over 20 year and hundreds of bunnies I have not had any problems though you may get criticised by other members of this Forum :D
 
MightyMax said:
A vet should be able to not only see what needs doing, but also do it without the need for GA. Some vets lack the confidence or ability to do this. I don't see why he can examine her teeth without GA but needs GA to do any dental work?
Click to expand...

... some of the best rabbit vets prefer to use GA for ethical reasons, not because they don't have the confidence not to... I have it on very good authority...
 
Bunny Buddy said:
... some of the best rabbit vets prefer to use GA for ethical reasons, not because they don't have the confidence not to... I have it on very good authority...
Click to expand...

There is nothing unethical with doing a dental without GA ;)

It's just much safer for the rabbit :)
 
binkybunnyox said:
Jacks Jane I actually asked for a copy of the blood work so have the results :lol:
The lab were unable to perform haematology as the blood has clotted so we are going tomorrow for more blood to be taken. On her biochem she has high potassium and CK (I think the vet said these point toward muscle damage, she has quite alot of muscle wastage, but can't remember exactly, will clarify tomorrow) her alt and bile acids are slightly raised too. She also has low phosphate, globulin & urea.

We have already wormed them with panacur for 9 days was thinking about just doing the 28 days ? will ask my vet about faecal testing tomorrow. she does have very small poos...
Click to expand...

I'd ask for the Bio-Chem to be run again too. Some of the previous results might have been corrupted due to haemolysis. This could effect the results for Potassium levels amongst other things.

Is your Rabbit drinking a lot ?

Hope all goes well with the next blood test xx
 
I'd add some Critical Care in her nutrition, probably about half of the needed amount if it was the only thing in her diet. My boy is a dental bunny too & the fact that he recognises it as a part of his diet & eats it on his own, has saved us many times :)
Mix it with less water to create a porrige & let her eat on her own. It is nutrient-packed & if she learns to eat it this way, you won't have to force-feed her if a tooth problem arises... I have a powerful mixer in which I pulverise hay & dried herbs to make my own formula. If she can't eat hay because of her molars, she'll love it. You can also try a mixture of timothy & alfalfa, to help her gain.
I know it's only a remedy, until you find the reason she is not putting weight, but my bun always gains whenever I need to add some before dentals.
No advice to offer on the bloodwork...Hope your vet finds out what is going on soon:3

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Jack's-Jane said:
I'd ask for the Bio-Chem to be run again too. Some of the previous results might have been corrupted due to haemolysis. This could effect the results for Potassium levels amongst other things.
Click to expand...

^^ This.

MightyMax said:
There is nothing unethical with doing a dental without GA
Click to expand...

The unethical part would be that fact that some of the work could be painful.
If just trimming spurs/or trimming incisors than that is fine, but any other work which may be more invasive/painful should be done under a GA to prevent any unnecessary pain/suffering.
 
daphnephoebe said:
^^ This.



The unethical part would be that fact that some of the work could be painful.
If just trimming spurs/or trimming incisors than that is fine, but any other work which may be more invasive/painful should be done under a GA to prevent any unnecessary pain/suffering.
Click to expand...

There is no way that any reputable vet would do invasive work that involved drills etc in a conscious bunny's mouth. Is that what you were referring to?
 
MightyMax said:
There is nothing unethical with doing a dental without GA ;)

It's just much safer for the rabbit :)
Click to expand...

I wasn't expressing my opinion on the matter - you asked why a vet why a vet would need a GA for dental work - I am explaining why, as explained to me by a top rabbit specialist, whose judgement I trust on the matter. You seem to be implying that if a vet resorts to a GA then they lack confidence and/or skill .. I can assure you that the vet I had the discussion with lacks neither of these :shock:
 
Bunny Buddy said:
I wasn't expressing my opinion on the matter - you asked why a vet why a vet would need a GA for dental work - I am explaining why, as explained to me by a top rabbit specialist, whose judgement I trust on the matter. You seem to be implying that if a vet resorts to a GA then they lack confidence and/or skill .. I can assure you that the vet I had the discussion with lacks neither of these :shock:
Click to expand...

I have also had a discussion about this issue with a top rabbit specialist :D

Vets have their preferred way of working - some vets will not flush tear ducts without sedation. Doing conscious dentals is understandably a very skilled procedure and I can quite understand some vets preferring not to use this method of working :)

Rabbit savvy vets have actually told me that the reason they won't do conscious dentals is for the very reason they do not have the confidence, and I would far rather they say that, than attempt something they feel is beyond them.
 
Last edited:
My vet, who is pretty much a rabbit specialist (and one and only in Greece, lol) does dentals without GA, using topical & dissociative anesthetics.
If the rabbit is calm enough, she only uses topical anesthetics & she was kind enough to let me see the procedure twice.
Once with my bunny, using topical & dissociative and the second time was with a rescue, using only topical, which was in terrible condition and obviously the worst candidate for GA.
None of the two animals that I saw, showed signs of pain as she worked.:)
 
We have added in critical care aswell which she scoffs :D I think she may even have gained some weight !! She's due her weigh in tomorrow (our scales at home are manual so not very accurate) fingers crossed.

Think she will need more dental work at some point but my vet would ga her for this so hopefully we can get weight on her before her teeth become an issue for her again. I totally understand why vets ga for ethical reasons, I know I would rather be knocked out at the dentist :lol: obviously it depends on circumstances etc as some buns may need dental work but would be higher ga risk

We have received her haematology results which don't look good either :( one of the nurses called us to pick up antibiotics & that they had asked a clinical pathologist to look at her blood as the lab had advised this due to her haematology results. There's mention of bone marrow failure :shock: I'm quite concerned about the little mite, she's such a loving little bunny & she has not had much luck since coming to live with us :(
 
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