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ec or something else?

k.mdaniels

Alpha Buck
Hi

Taking bun to vets tomorrow but would just like opinions -

Since September Sammy has been to the vet a few times due to a snuffily / wheezy sound when he breathes. Vets cant agree if noise is from chest, lungs or neither. He has been given several courses of antibiotics, first course lasted a week and the other two for three weeks. I feel this has got a good bit better bit not completely gone.
over two weeks ago he started tilting his head, not eating as much, I felt he was a bit slower in general and looking very tired all the time but looked like he was fighting it. So after a couple of days I rang the vet to arrange an x-ray, they suggested to try Panacur for e.c first.
I was given a course of 28 days but after 14 days I feel he has only gotten worse:(. At first I thought the head tilt was gone but some days its back again. I'm now worried he has had a stroke as is back end doesn't seem right. His back left leg sticks out a lot whilst his back end twists to the right. He is eating but not a lot which means he isn't pooing a lot. His urine looks normal although he is soiling himself a little. I now feel I haven't seen him comfortably lying down for days. He mainly just sits and looks as if he's nodding off but fighting sleep. I think he's lost weight and I have also heard tooth grinding.

He is also a little out of character - he will sit in odd places and seems to enjoy claps these days (sorry if that sounds silly but Sammy always liked to be left alone).

My gut instinct is telling me something is very wrong. He is 8 1/2 years old so I don't want to put him through any major operations but at the same time feel antibiotic courses aren't doing anything:(

I've been in a bad place about this all week.

I assume everything the vet tells me is guesswork without some sort of tests? I'm worried that I'm prolonging his suffering.

please don't judge but in one hand I'm asking myself 'am I giving up on him to soon' and in the other hand 'am I avoiding helping him to the bridge due to my own selfishness of getting heartbroken'
 
Hi KMD, as you know I have been having problems with EC with my own rabbit Willow so you have my utter sympathy and I am sending you and Sammy hugs and healing vibes.
I really don't have any practical advice I'm afraid but you sound as if you are very in tune with Sammy so after your meeting with the vet tomorrow (or rather today!) you will be better informed as to what is the best course of action.
Thinking of you and please let us know how it goes at the vets xx
 
I think I would be asking the vet about the possibility of taking some x-rays - eg back leg, head, chest - and to have a good look at the teeth while Sammy is sedated. He should also be weighed again so you can tell if he is losing weight - you can help by syringe feeding or changing some of his diet so he eats more by himself (eg moist pellets, grated veg) if he needs to gain weight.

EC can get worse temporarily before it improves. He should also be prescribed an anti-inflammatory to reduce the damage that the parasite does, and hence the symptoms such as head tilt and hind leg weakness. Don't forget that everything needs a thorough disinfect on days 21 and 28 to help break the cycle of reinfection.

X-rays may help to show whether the symptoms are EC or something else such as arthritis. Any lung issues may show up as well.

Head tilt could also be related to ear infections.

It sounds like there could be several things going on. I hope you get some answers and appropriate treatment so that Sammy can be more comfortable.
 
Hi

Taking bun to vets tomorrow but would just like opinions -

Since September Sammy has been to the vet a few times due to a snuffily / wheezy sound when he breathes. Vets cant agree if noise is from chest, lungs or neither. He has been given several courses of antibiotics, first course lasted a week and the other two for three weeks. I feel this has got a good bit better bit not completely gone.
over two weeks ago he started tilting his head, not eating as much, I felt he was a bit slower in general and looking very tired all the time but looked like he was fighting it. So after a couple of days I rang the vet to arrange an x-ray, they suggested to try Panacur for e.c first.
I was given a course of 28 days but after 14 days I feel he has only gotten worse:(. At first I thought the head tilt was gone but some days its back again. I'm now worried he has had a stroke as is back end doesn't seem right. His back left leg sticks out a lot whilst his back end twists to the right. He is eating but not a lot which means he isn't pooing a lot. His urine looks normal although he is soiling himself a little. I now feel I haven't seen him comfortably lying down for days. He mainly just sits and looks as if he's nodding off but fighting sleep. I think he's lost weight and I have also heard tooth grinding.

He is also a little out of character - he will sit in odd places and seems to enjoy claps these days (sorry if that sounds silly but Sammy always liked to be left alone).

My gut instinct is telling me something is very wrong. He is 8 1/2 years old so I don't want to put him through any major operations but at the same time feel antibiotic courses aren't doing anything:(

I've been in a bad place about this all week.

I assume everything the vet tells me is guesswork without some sort of tests? I'm worried that I'm prolonging his suffering.

please don't judge but in one hand I'm asking myself 'am I giving up on him to soon' and in the other hand 'am I avoiding helping him to the bridge due to my own selfishness of getting heartbroken'

Obviously it's impossible to say for certain, but given his history of RTIs I suspect an ear infection is more likely than EC. All of his current symptoms fit with an ear infection. Ear infections and RTIs are often linked. The lethargy,weight loss and tooth grinding may indicate pain. Ear infections are painful. If there is also sinusitis as part of the RTI then that too can cause a horrible headache.

I do hope that he has been prescribed analgesic/anti-inflammatory cover as well as the panacur ?

As diagnostics may not be an option given his age and debilitated state, I would ask the Vet to consider a working diagnosis of Otitis (ear infection) and ask if giving an injectable antibiotic such as Depocillin a try. I'd also request a non steroidal anti-inflammatory analgesic such as Metacam. If the Vet refuses I'd seriously consider taking your Rabbit to another Vet ASAP for a second opinion. Whilst all drugs carry risks and consequently the prescribing Vet needs to carefully weigh up risks v benefits, there is seldom, if ever, a reason for no pain relief to be given when a Rabbit is suspected to have a condition that causes pain.

Hopefully you trust your Vet and he/she will be able to suggest what to do now with regards to treatment.

These links may be helpful:

http://veterinarywebinars.com/assets/Study_Notes_Ear_Nose_Rabbits.pdf

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/diagnosis-of-otitis-externa-media-and-interna-in-rabbits/#f1

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Otit/otitis.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Bacterial/BacterialOtitisMediaInterna.htm

Good luck at the Vets xx
 
Last edited:
I think I would be asking the vet about the possibility of taking some x-rays - eg back leg, head, chest - and to have a good look at the teeth while Sammy is sedated. He should also be weighed again so you can tell if he is losing weight - you can help by syringe feeding or changing some of his diet so he eats more by himself (eg moist pellets, grated veg) if he needs to gain weight.

EC can get worse temporarily before it improves. He should also be prescribed an anti-inflammatory to reduce the damage that the parasite does, and hence the symptoms such as head tilt and hind leg weakness. Don't forget that everything needs a thorough disinfect on days 21 and 28 to help break the cycle of reinfection.

X-rays may help to show whether the symptoms are EC or something else such as arthritis. Any lung issues may show up as well.

Head tilt could also be related to ear infections.

It sounds like there could be several things going on. I hope you get some answers and appropriate treatment so that Sammy can be more comfortable.

I agree with Shimmer, that until you have a bit more info, which could be provided by an X-ray, you and your vet are shooting in the dark on this one. I think your thought about a possible stroke is also valid, and I have known this in rabbits too, so it's not a remote possibility at his age. An X-ray may also show up whether there is any ear infection, although this will be difficult to deal with using antibiotics, especially if you're not sure which one to use.

The teeth are also very important to look at, and if your vet doesn't feel able to look at them and deal with them consciously, then he would need sedation for that too.

I would also say that you should ask your vet for an anti inflammatory such as Metacam. This will help with any neurological issues going on connected with both E.C. and a stroke, and give him pain relief if there are any arthritic changes.

Good luck, I hope all goes well for you and Sammy at the vet! xx
 
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