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Side effects of Ranitidine and Baytril

A

AndyRachel&Jack

Young Bun
Hi, I'm new on here, we have an 8 month or so old female (called Mouse).

Since Monday 2st Nov she's been not eating well at all or behaving normally. I noticed that morning she was hunched in her nest compartment (normally she goes mental for attention and food). She ate nothing all day and was the same that night and next morning and so I decided to get straight to the vets. To cut a long story short she's been on Baytril and Fibreplex (for suspected bacterial infection in the tummy) since Thursday night last week and Ranitidine since Tuesday this week.

She only eats small quantities of dandelions and greens and won't touch hay. Some days she's produced some (3 or 4) small droppings, others tiny ones or non at all.

Today we thought she had got a bit better and might be turning a corner as she ate better but was still very very subdued. Tonight we think we might be loosing her. She appears to be loosing her ability to move around properly due to lack of balance.

She sits fine but rocks a bit on her feet as she walks, and also seeks out darkness. When she was picked up she really lost all coordination during a struggle to escape! and when put down again she kicked her legs while on her side. We thought she was having a fit. She is now settled and has eaten some dandelion and raspberry leaves. Could this balance/muscle control thing be a side effect of the Ranitidine. I've looked it up and the human side effect are quite similar, dizziness, malaise, vertigo and dystonia (from wikipedia..."sustained muscle contractions cause twisting and repetitive movements or abnormal postures. The movements may resemble a tremor") I can find no information of rabbits. I wondered if anyone has had similar problems? All medication has stopped until I call the vets tomorrow.

Many Thanks, Andy (and very poorly Mouse)
 
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AndyRachel&Jack said:
Hi, I'm new on here, we have an 8 month or so old female (called Mouse).

Since Monday 2st Nov she's been not eating well at all or behaving normally. I noticed that morning she was hunched in her nest compartment (normally she goes mental for attention and food). She ate nothing all day and was the same that night and next morning and so I decided to get straight to the vets. To cut a long story short she's been on Baytril and Fibreplex (for suspected bacterial infection in the tummy) since Thursday night last week and Ranitidine since Tuesday this week.

She only eats small quantities of dandelions and greens and won't touch hay. Some days she's produced some (3 or 4) small droppings, others tiny ones or non at all.

Today we thought she had got a bit better and might be turning a corner as she ate better but was still very very subdued. Tonight we think we might be loosing her. She appears to be loosing her ability to move around properly due to lack of balance.

She sits fine but rocks a bit on her feet as she walks, and also seeks out darkness. When she was picked up she really lost all coordination during a struggle to escape! and when put down again she kicked her legs while on her side. We thought she was having a fit. She is now settled and has eaten some dandelion and raspberry leaves. Could this balance/muscle control thing be a side effect of the Ranitidine. I've looked it up and the human side effect are quite similar, dizziness, malaise, vertigo and dystonia (from wikipedia..."sustained muscle contractions cause twisting and repetitive movements or abnormal postures. The movements may resemble a tremor") I can find no information of rabbits. I wondered if anyone has had similar problems? All medication has stopped until I call the vets tomorrow.

Many Thanks, Andy (and very poorly Mouse)
Click to expand...

Hello, I am sorry that your Rabbit is so ill. I very much doubt that the 'balance problems' are in any way related to the medication. From the outset you do not mention anything about pain relief being prescribed for your Rabbit ? A Rabbit in pain will not eat and then their GI tract closes down ,Ranitidine being a prokinetic-AKA'Gut motility stimulant'- as well as an anti GI ulcer medication, so hopefully it will be helping your Rabbit's GI tract

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Ranitidine.htm

There are a few possibilities I would expect a Vet to consider, gut stasis is often a secondary symptom of another problem

http://www.vettimes.co.uk/article/managing-gi-stasis-in-rabbits/

http://www.melbournerabbitclinic.com/melbournerabbi/stasis.html

http://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/pdfs/ROWinter10p7.pdf

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

The subsequent 'balance problems' may be related to your Rabbit's general weakness and malaise, possibly related to failing liver function, possibly related to a condition called Encephalitozoon Cuniculi (EC)

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm

Have you been syringe feeding your Rabbit ? This is usually essential once a Vet has ruled out a full gut obstruction. Fluid therapy is also very important, fluids both given orally and IV. So it is not unusual for a Rabbit to have to be hospitalised for the intensive care needed from the outset in a severe case of gut stasis. And of course pain relief is an absolute essential and I would be extremely cross with a Vet who failed to take pain control into account when treating a Rabbit in gut stasis regardless of the primary cause

Another possibility is that Dental problems may have meant that for some time your Rabbit has been eating less and less hay. Eventually this would cause gut problems due to the lack of long fibre needed for good gut motility. So I would also expect the Vet to consider any Dental involvement in the overall problem.

I am not in any way qualified to say that the above is what is wrong with your Rabbit, but I would certainly want a Vet to have considered all of it. If your Rabbit has made it through the night then I would get her straight back to a Rabbit Savvy Vet first thing this morning. If you have any doubt at all as to how 'Rabbit Savvy' your Vet is (many Vets may be great with cats and dogs but very, very limited in their knowledge of Rabbits) then you could post a thread on here in 'Rabbit Chat' asking for Rabbit Savvy Vet recommendations in your area.
 
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Hi no she has not had pain relief, and no syringe feeding, she has been eating but only green material (dandelions mainly). He didn't think tooth spurs could be the cause as she's too young, is this correct?
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
Hi no she has not had pain relief, and no syringe feeding, she has been eating but only green material (dandelions mainly).
Click to expand...

Both pain relief and assisted feeding are almost always essential. I do hope that the Vet you see today is on the ball and has a decent amount of knowledge about Rabbits.
 
We have just got back. The vet says that he's never heard of these side happening and doubts that they are caused by the medication. She seamed a lot better when we got there, not really wobbly at all but still not right. Earlier this morning she was bad (unsteady on feet) and dropped her head in the water bowl and seamed agitated circling around a bit. She likes to be out the cage and under the radiator.

He checked eyes, ears and felt around her neck. He mentioned possibilities of neurological problems and also the liver. He also mentioned inner ear. He said her eyes were OK (not moving around which, would be a further sign of brain problems). He also mentioned the possibility of the intestines becoming over lapped (not twisted).

I should have mentioned before that right at the start of this (Monday 2nd) I first thought that she might have been eating fallen leaves from a Bird Cherry tree (Prunus Padus). After some research I found that these contain nasty toxins but in small quantities. The vet said that although this was a possibility he thought it would be a bacterial infection as there was gas in her stomach. The other rabbits and those before have always nibbled a few with no ill effects, in fact in small amounts they are a medicinal plant! He gave her an anti inflammatory injection (sorry can't remember name will get paperwork tomorrow). I asked about Metacam, I think she will get that tomorrow. So now were are about to restart medication and go back in the morning.

She is (or has been) eating. I don't think lack of food or dehydration is a problem, she needs to eat hay however, she and isn't, or in fact anything dry. Her weight today is 1.6 kg which is the same as she was and Monday. On Wednesday last week she was 1.76kg. She lost a bit at first but has stabilised, she maybe just getting enough bearing in mind she's warm inside and not burning up energy running about like a lunatic as she normally does.

I think he's pretty thorough and I think he's OK with rabbits but they won't be specialists like Crab Lane, we have been referred to therm in the past by our vets with a rabbit with thymoma. I don't question what he's doing for Mouse but I know it's very difficult to be sure what's happening.

Thanks for your help and support everyone. I'll be back on later, I've got to give her the antibiotic now, and go to work (luckily I'm self employed and can get back for the other medications and check on her, Rachel is also at home to watch her).
 
So far so good, she's actually eating more now, although still subdued. Rachel has mashed up some of her dry food pellets and covered apple chunks with it which she is eating, she's also eaten quite a bit of greens, with constant encouragement. One or two droppings appeared today, I still need to have a proper count up. We are not out of the woods yet though as I'm not sure what the attack of the wobbles was about. Maybe some kind of virus rather than bacteria which got to her inner ears for a while or maybe just weakness from not eating enough variety?
 
Mouse just produced a large number (20+) of good droppings and has an appetite again! The anti inflammatory injection must have had an effect. She comes out of her hiding place under the radiator exploring for food now. Still not her normal self but encouraging. I hope this isn't just temporary but at least she can build her strength up again.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
Mouse just produced a large number (20+) of good droppings and has an appetite again! The anti inflammatory injection must have had an effect. She comes out of her hiding place under the radiator exploring for food now. Still not her normal self but encouraging. I hope this isn't just temporary but at least she can build her strength up again.
Click to expand...

Metacam is an anti-inflammatory as well as an analgesic, so that is possibly what the injection was. I am glad to hear that there appears to be some improvement now that pain/inflammation control has been addressed.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
We have just got back. The vet says that he's never heard of these side happening and doubts that they are caused by the medication. She seamed a lot better when we got there, not really wobbly at all but still not right. Earlier this morning she was bad (unsteady on feet) and dropped her head in the water bowl and seamed agitated circling around a bit. She likes to be out the cage and under the radiator.

He checked eyes, ears and felt around her neck. He mentioned possibilities of neurological problems and also the liver. He also mentioned inner ear. He said her eyes were OK (not moving around which, would be a further sign of brain problems). He also mentioned the possibility of the intestines becoming over lapped (not twisted).

I should have mentioned before that right at the start of this (Monday 2nd) I first thought that she might have been eating fallen leaves from a Bird Cherry tree (Prunus Padus). After some research I found that these contain nasty toxins but in small quantities. The vet said that although this was a possibility he thought it would be a bacterial infection as there was gas in her stomach. The other rabbits and those before have always nibbled a few with no ill effects, in fact in small amounts they are a medicinal plant! He gave her an anti inflammatory injection (sorry can't remember name will get paperwork tomorrow). I asked about Metacam, I think she will get that tomorrow. So now were are about to restart medication and go back in the morning.

She is (or has been) eating. I don't think lack of food or dehydration is a problem, she needs to eat hay however, she and isn't, or in fact anything dry. Her weight today is 1.6 kg which is the same as she was and Monday. On Wednesday last week she was 1.76kg. She lost a bit at first but has stabilised, she maybe just getting enough bearing in mind she's warm inside and not burning up energy running about like a lunatic as she normally does.

I think he's pretty thorough and I think he's OK with rabbits but they won't be specialists like Crab Lane, we have been referred to therm in the past by our vets with a rabbit with thymoma. I don't question what he's doing for Mouse but I know it's very difficult to be sure what's happening.

Thanks for your help and support everyone. I'll be back on later, I've got to give her the antibiotic now, and go to work (luckily I'm self employed and can get back for the other medications and check on her, Rachel is also at home to watch her).
Click to expand...

I have had many rabbits eat from the tree you mention and with no ill effects. Plant toxicity is not as common as some vets think, so I think your vet must be on the sensible side!

I'm glad she had the anti inflammatory injection. She probably wouldn't have been able to have Metacam at the same time, as that is also an anti inflammatory.

I'm glad to hear she's doing well and look forward to more positive updates in due course!
 
I am glad your bunny is feeling better. The three most important things is to make sure she is eating drinking, eating, and has pain control. Bunnies are prey animals and they tend to hide their pain well, so it is often hard to tell if they are in pain.
Sending you more positive vibes for continued improvement.
 
She's now eating like mad but not hay or pellets. Loads of poops every where. Maybe a little too much greens at once as some a bit soft but not too bad, having to limit greens intake to avoid problems. She will eat dry treats though. I suppose that now she's been spoilt on nice things it might be hard to get her on the proper stuff again?

Resumed medication Baydtril and Ranitidine. I was worried that the wobbles would come back despite assurances that it isn't the drugs. 2 hours after Ranitidine she did get a little bit wobbly again, I'm not sure what's going on. It's the same time of day though so maybe she's just exhausted. She is in doors of course and we may be extending the day too long for her. We keep the lights down but maybe we shouldn't monitor her too much so she can rest later in the day.

I think she's built some strength up today, far less wobbly than last night. Yes, the vet said that the injection would act as pain relief as well so that must have really helped her.

Throughout the whole thing she's always responded to me holding and stroking her by licking my hands and face etc. Can't believe how rabbits do that even when they must feel so unwell. She was 1 of a litter of 4 and their mother someone abandoned near our house earlier this year. She was the smallest and cheekiest and looked like a grey mouse which is how she got her name. We had a very bad biting incident and she was rushed to the vets with puncture wounds on her neck ear and face. The vet said it looked like one of the other babies had done it (although at the time I suspected a rat as we had a problem with them) . Despite getting an abscess she made a full recovery and looks perfect. She's been through a lot but very affectionate.

Vets again tomorrow.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
She's now eating like mad but not hay or pellets. Loads of poops every where. Maybe a little too much greens at once as some a bit soft but not too bad, having to limit greens intake to avoid problems. She will eat dry treats though. I suppose that now she's been spoilt on nice things it might be hard to get her on the proper stuff again?

Resumed medication Baydtril and Ranitidine. I was worried that the wobbles would come back despite assurances that it isn't the drugs. 2 hours after Ranitidine she did get a little bit wobbly again, I'm not sure what's going on. It's the same time of day though so maybe she's just exhausted. She is in doors of course and we may be extending the day too long for her. We keep the lights down but maybe we shouldn't monitor her too much so she can rest later in the day.

I think she's built some strength up today, far less wobbly than last night. Yes, the vet said that the injection would act as pain relief as well so that must have really helped her.

Throughout the whole thing she's always responded to me holding and stroking her by licking my hands and face etc. Can't believe how rabbits do that even when they must feel so unwell. She was 1 of a litter of 4 and their mother someone abandoned near our house earlier this year. She was the smallest and cheekiest and looked like a grey mouse which is how she got her name. We had a very bad biting incident and she was rushed to the vets with puncture wounds on her neck ear and face. The vet said it looked like one of the other babies had done it (although at the time I suspected a rat as we had a problem with them) . Despite getting an abscess she made a full recovery and looks perfect. She's been through a lot but very affectionate.

Vets again tomorrow.
Click to expand...

She sounds adorable. I do hope that she continues to recover well and that her check up at the Vet goes well. It is not unusual for a Rabbit to pass some abnormal fecal pellets after an episode of gut stasis and getting back to 'normal' eating patterns can take a few days. However, I would ask the Vet to take a look at her teeth to check for any obvious signs of problems in her mouth. Whilst it is impossible to see 100% of the inside of the mouth of a conscious Rabbit whilst the Rabbit is awake, a limited amount can be seen which can pick up on any elongated/sharp crowns, spurs and/or signs of soft tissue inflammation.

Hopefully all is well with her teeth and she will start eating hay again now that things are moving through.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
She's now eating like mad but not hay or pellets. Loads of poops every where. Maybe a little too much greens at once as some a bit soft but not too bad, having to limit greens intake to avoid problems. She will eat dry treats though. I suppose that now she's been spoilt on nice things it might be hard to get her on the proper stuff again?

Resumed medication Baydtril and Ranitidine. I was worried that the wobbles would come back despite assurances that it isn't the drugs. 2 hours after Ranitidine she did get a little bit wobbly again, I'm not sure what's going on. It's the same time of day though so maybe she's just exhausted. She is in doors of course and we may be extending the day too long for her. We keep the lights down but maybe we shouldn't monitor her too much so she can rest later in the day.

I think she's built some strength up today, far less wobbly than last night. Yes, the vet said that the injection would act as pain relief as well so that must have really helped her.

Throughout the whole thing she's always responded to me holding and stroking her by licking my hands and face etc. Can't believe how rabbits do that even when they must feel so unwell. She was 1 of a litter of 4 and their mother someone abandoned near our house earlier this year. She was the smallest and cheekiest and looked like a grey mouse which is how she got her name. We had a very bad biting incident and she was rushed to the vets with puncture wounds on her neck ear and face. The vet said it looked like one of the other babies had done it (although at the time I suspected a rat as we had a problem with them) . Despite getting an abscess she made a full recovery and looks perfect. She's been through a lot but very affectionate.

Vets again tomorrow.
Click to expand...

That's all lovely to hear - I'm glad she's doing well at the moment.

As for getting her back onto the 'good' stuff, you can gradually wean her onto hay and pellets, I find it has to be done slowly though or they don't accept it!

I think your remark about her having 'built up strength' is the starting point. It's this she needs to do, albeit slowly.

Good luck for the next vet visit :thumb:
 
Another injection this morning, Colvasone according to the receipt however I'm sure that yesterday I was told that it would be Metacam. I've looked it up and seen some comments on here from years ago and that it's a steroid which might not be good for rabbits. I'll check as we have to go back tomorrow for another and final injection. Baytril to end tomorrow and Ranitidine Tuesday, all being well.

Good news, Mouse is now eating a little bit of hay and also now keen on pellets again. She is also much more alert, exploring things, and generally looks a lot brighter We have 3 other rabbits so I've been trying not to ignore them although it's been hard as it's been a busy two weeks with Mouse.

This is the first time we've had this happen in 10 years of rabbits (we usually only keep 2 at once), although Bramley went off his food a couple of months ago and I thought he was loosing weight (I think he was living on grass only, grazing when we let them out). I popped him the vets and he was 2kg which was OK. He's since improved his eating.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
Another injection this morning, Colvasone according to the receipt however I'm sure that yesterday I was told that it would be Metacam. I've looked it up and seen some comments on here from years ago and that it's a steroid which might not be good for rabbits. I'll check as we have to go back tomorrow for another and final injection. Baytril to end tomorrow and Ranitidine Tuesday, all being well.

Good news, Mouse is now eating a little bit of hay and also now keen on pellets again. She is also much more alert, exploring things, and generally looks a lot brighter We have 3 other rabbits so I've been trying not to ignore them although it's been hard as it's been a busy two weeks with Mouse.

This is the first time we've had this happen in 10 years of rabbits (we usually only keep 2 at once), although Bramley went off his food a couple of months ago and I thought he was loosing weight (I think he was living on grass only, grazing when we let them out). I popped him the vets and he was 2kg which was OK. He's since improved his eating.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right, Colvasone is a steroid ... Dexamethasone, which is a synthetic corticosteroid with a potent anti-inflammatory action. So it's no surprise that she is eating, as a steroid will make her feel hungry.

You are right, there can be side effects from taking a steroid, but a careful and savvy vet will have weighed up the pros and cons and decided it's the best way forward.

Please make sure you're not giving Metacam at the moment as she is having a steroid injection. Giving Metacam after a corticosteroid could precipitate kidney damage and gastrointestinal tract ulceration.
 
No, were not giving Metacam. I'll check tomorrow if I've got the facts right. basically she's only having medication as prescribed by the vet, we have non of our own.

I think without the injection she would be in a bad way by now as although eating, she was weak. She had produced some better droppings though and had picked up ever so slightly with eating. The wobble thing then kicked in that night which made us go to the vets the next morning. Maybe the infection (if that's what it was) was being beaten by the antibiotics (hence the slight increase in appetite) but her weakness was also increasing. The steroid both made her feel better and eat better which pulled her through.
 
AndyRachel&Jack said:
Another injection this morning, Colvasone according to the receipt however I'm sure that yesterday I was told that it would be Metacam. I've looked it up and seen some comments on here from years ago and that it's a steroid which might not be good for rabbits. I'll check as we have to go back tomorrow for another and final injection. Baytril to end tomorrow and Ranitidine Tuesday, all being well.

Good news, Mouse is now eating a little bit of hay and also now keen on pellets again. She is also much more alert, exploring things, and generally looks a lot brighter We have 3 other rabbits so I've been trying not to ignore them although it's been hard as it's been a busy two weeks with Mouse.

This is the first time we've had this happen in 10 years of rabbits (we usually only keep 2 at once), although Bramley went off his food a couple of months ago and I thought he was loosing weight (I think he was living on grass only, grazing when we let them out). I popped him the vets and he was 2kg which was OK. He's since improved his eating.
Click to expand...

Whilst Corticosteroids should be used with extreme caution in Rabbits there are some circumstances when the risk is deemed necessary to take. They have a rapid onset anti-inflammatory effect and they also stimulate appetite and thirst. So it will be important to carefully monitor how things go after the effects of the Colvosone start to wear off. I would ask the Vet about keeping on with the Ranitidine for a bit longer than Tuesday as one possible side effect of Corticosteroids is GI tract ulceration, this being exacerbated if the Rabbit is not eating as much as usual. Ranitidine offers some protection against GI tract ulceration. I would also ask the Vet if keeping the course of Baytril going for a bit longer may also be advisable. Corticosteroids have a negative impact on the immune system and given that at the outset of Mouse's illness the Vet obviously felt there was already a bacterial infection going on he may think it appropriate to continue to give abx cover now that a Corticosteroid is being given too, especially as it sounds not to be just a one off shot of it.
 
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