8 Year Old Flemish Giant, struggling to use his back legs

Hello All,

I wondered if you could offer me some advice. I have an 8 1/2 year old Flemish Giant called Stanley. We've kept him in the house all of his life and in the last week, we noticed that he has periods where he can't seem to make his back legs work in the way he wants. He ends up either dragging them behind himself, or trying to propel himself along by shuffling along the carpet.

Initially this happened very infrequently and if we assisted him by standing him up, he could then hop as usual. However as a couple of days went on, he began to drag himself more and when we did try to stand him up, he just flopped to one side and couldn't stand.

We took him to the vet (miraculously he was walking fine at the time, despite having problems earlier in the day) and she prescribed 1mg of Metacam for 10 days and a 28 day course of Panacur, in case it's a bacterial infection.

We're 5 days into the prescription and his legs seem to be getting worse. I contacted the vet and asked if we should bring him into the vet so they could check him out and whether or not the dose he was taking was correct (I've read online that rabbits breakdown metacam v quickly and rabbits much smaller than him are on 0.6mg twice daily in some cases). They assured me the does was fine, that they could do x-rays, but if nothing else helped we might have to look into having him put down as a last resort.

I'm very confident he doesn't have a broken leg as he is not at all sensitive about his legs being touched. Also if he did have a broken leg, is there anything a vet can do? He's too old to be operated on, or would they just suggest this to rule it out?

They assured me he wouldn't be in any pain, it just looks discomforting for use to see. I confirmed that he is eating and drinking as normal, he's very affectionate still and he does still manage to wee in the area he uses all the time (although his poo is sticking to his fur and we are cleaning him a few times a day).

The questions I would appreciate some help with are:
- Does anyone else have a rabbit with this problem? If so, did you use Metacam and how long did it take to work?
- Is it worth getting a second opinion from another vet? If so, does anyone know a good Rabbit vet near Oxfordshire?
- How do you know if a rabbit is in pain? He never makes a sound and is still eating everything I put in front of him and begging for more!
- Does the dose of Metacam sound correct to you?
- Can he live a happy life without the use of his back legs if the rest of him is fine?

Help with any of these would be great and here's a picture of Stanley so you know who I'm talking about

Sorry to hear your big bun is unwell

The Panacur is for parasites, not bacterial infections. The EC parasite in particular can cause hind end weakness, it's a neurological thing. Definitely continue with this just in case. You can ask the vet to test for EC.

With giants, spinal fractures can be an issue, an X-Ray would be needed to rule that out which may involve a general anesthetic, more risky in senior giants than senior smaller rabbits.

Not sure about dosages I'm afraid! I'm sure someone will pop along soon better at that!

Oh what a beautiful boy!! Black giants are the best!

I'm sorry to hear this.

The loss of use of back legs could well be EC (so the panacur is a good start although I think the course should be quite long?)

It could also be arthritis or something of the sort.

To answer your question, bunnies (including large ones) who are happy enough in themselves can live perfectly well without the proper use of his back legs although, as you have found, it's hard work to keep them happy and clean

Metacam - Hector is 9kg. He has Dog Metacam and I use up to the same dose as for a 20kg dog if that is any help?

I'd definitely be seeking a second opinion if you don't seem to be getting answers. I had this with my nethie. I got answers too late for her

I also had this with my Frenchie - I got answers and he lived a good life for a good while.

It's worth saying, one of them was EC whilst the latter was a kidney tumour.

I hope your poor man stays in good spirits


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SJH said:

The loss of use of back legs could well be EC (so the panacur is a good start although I think the course should be quite long?)

Click to expand...

The 28 day course is the recommended one to kill off the full lifecycle of the parasite.

You could start another Thread entitled Rabbit Savvy Vet near Oxfordshire. I hope you find out what the problem is:thumb:

Thank you so much - you've all made me feel much more positive.

I was beginning to think this was the end with him, especially when the vets trot out the words 'euthanasia'.

I will definitely try another thread as you have suggested, to find a vet.

With regards to the panacur and E.C - do they usually make a full recovery? How long would you expect it to take before seeing an improvement and what causes the parasite to get into their system?

catxx said:

The 28 day course is the recommended one to kill off the full lifecycle of the parasite.

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yes - that is what the vet said to us. What causes the parasite to get into their system?

angela82 said:

Thank you so much - you've all made me feel much more positive.

I was beginning to think this was the end with him, especially when the vets trot out the words 'euthanasia'.

I will definitely try another thread as you have suggested, to find a vet.

With regards to the panacur and E.C - do they usually make a full recovery? How long would you expect it to take before seeing an improvement and what causes the parasite to get into their system?

Click to expand...

The current thinking is that the damage that's done is done. However, I have used herbs to repair nerve damage and seen remarkable improvements, so miracles are definitely possible

They pick up the parasite in the spores in urine. It's estimated that well over half rabbits have it dormant in their systems, but it causes no symptoms.

With the Panacur, it's important to disinfect (where you can) with either a 10% bleach solution or steam cleaning, on days 21 and 28 of treatment so that you kill the life cycle of the parasite. Especially litter trays

Good luck! xx

Though EC is certainly possible, I would be more inclined to think it is a spinal issue such as spondylosis, that is causing the hind limb weakness, due to your rabbits age and being a large breed rabbit as they are known to have these types of issues.

Giving the panacur is a good precaution just in case it is EC, but if it is a spinal issue and/or arthritis, getting on the proper dose of metacam or other proper meds, may prove more helpful. Usual dosage for metacam is 0.3-0.6mg/kg given once a day or split into twice a day, so the dose you are getting does seem to me it may be inadequate with your rabbit being a larger breed. My 1.7kg rabbit gets 1mg per day and she isn't even that big.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

But this is just a guess on my part. A rabbit specialist will be able to give you a more accurate diagnosis of what is truly affecting your rabbit and how best to treat it.


Typically a rabbit that is in pain will often have a reduced appetite and activity. They may also grind their teeth. To me it doesn't sound like this is the case with your rabbit. It sounds like he mainly has decreased function with little to no pain.

Hind limb weakness or paralysis is certainly not a death sentence for a rabbit. It can be labor intensive though, so for a rabbit that stresses with hands on care, it might be too much. But if your rabbit copes with the extra care fine and you are able to provide the extra care needed, if your bun does continue to have hind limb issues despite treatment, there is no reason he can't go on to have a good quality of life if he copes well with the disability. There are other rabbits on here that have had similar issues and continued to live a full and happy life.

I would certainly agree with getting a second opinion from a rabbit specialist. Seeing a specialist can make all the difference in getting a proper diagnosis and the correct treatment for your bun

He looks to be a sweet bun. I hope you are able to find a good rabbit vet to give you the help that you need.

Here is some information if you are interested in reading up.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=490

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Osteoarthritis_rabbits.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Spinal_abnormalities_rabbits.htm

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

Jbun said:

Though EC is certainly possible, I would be more inclined to think it is a spinal issue such as spondylosis, that is causing the hind limb weakness, due to your rabbits age and being a large breed rabbit as they are known to have these types of issues.

Giving the panacur is a good precaution just in case it is EC, but if it is a spinal issue and/or arthritis, getting on the proper dose of metacam or other proper meds, may prove more helpful. Usual dosage for metacam is 0.3-0.6mg/kg given once a day or split into twice a day, so the dose you are getting does seem to me it may be inadequate with your rabbit being a larger breed. My 1.7kg rabbit gets 1mg per day and she isn't even that big.
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Meloxicam.htm

But this is just a guess on my part. A rabbit specialist will be able to give you a more accurate diagnosis of what is truly affecting your rabbit and how best to treat it.


Typically a rabbit that is in pain will often have a reduced appetite and activity. They may also grind their teeth. To me it doesn't sound like this is the case with your rabbit. It sounds like he mainly has decreased function with little to no pain.

Hind limb weakness or paralysis is certainly not a death sentence for a rabbit. It can be labor intensive though, so for a rabbit that stresses with hands on care, it might be too much. But if your rabbit copes with the extra care fine and you are able to provide the extra care needed, if your bun does continue to have hind limb issues despite treatment, there is no reason he can't go on to have a good quality of life if he copes well with the disability. There are other rabbits on here that have had similar issues and continued to live a full and happy life.

I would certainly agree with getting a second opinion from a rabbit specialist. Seeing a specialist can make all the difference in getting a proper diagnosis and the correct treatment for your bun

He looks to be a sweet bun. I hope you are able to find a good rabbit vet to give you the help that you need.

Here is some information if you are interested in reading up.

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=490

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Osteoarthritis_rabbits.htm

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Spinal_abnormalities_rabbits.htm

http://www.gwexotics.com/wccms-resources/a/5/0/e/77554b90-a660-11e0-a685-0050568626ea.pdf

Click to expand...

I completely agree with jbun's excellent advice. Treating with Panacur wont do any harm as a 'one off' event, but in some cases Vets seem to always assume 'EC' when a Rabbit presents with any hind leg weakness issues. Thus establishing a definitive diagnosis may be delayed.

I'd be vigilant about your Rabbit's hocks, sore hocks can become a problem when a Rabbit has hind leg weakness for any reason. Giant breeds being especially at risk.

In my experience Giant Breed Rabbits of advanced years are VERY prone to spondylosis and subsequent hind leg paresis/paralysis. I hope you manage to locate a Vet who is able to provide a second opinion.

Good luck x

Jack's-Jane said:

I completely agree with jbun's excellent advice. Treating with Panacur wont do any harm as a 'one off' event, but in some cases Vets seem to always assume 'EC' when a Rabbit presents with any hind leg weakness issues. Thus establishing a definitive diagnosis may be delayed.

I'd be vigilant about your Rabbit's hocks, sore hocks can become a problem when a Rabbit has hind leg weakness for any reason. Giant breeds being especially at risk.

In my experience Giant Breed Rabbits of advanced years are VERY prone to spondylosis and subsequent hind leg paresis/paralysis. I hope you manage to locate a Vet who is able to provide a second opinion.

Good luck x

Click to expand...

From reading the symptoms of Spondylosis he seems to have nearly all of them - apparently it is diagnosed by carrying out an x-ray. Do they need to be sedated for x-rays?

Also is spondylosis constant? This morning when I came down to check him he was bright and stood up and looked like he'd had a good night and was much less stumbly, I did try some of the massage techniques I read on the links jbun gave me.

On a side note... he's got a wet patch on his dewlap now and he seems to be licking it a lot. This is a new thing, could it be anxiety? I've noticed he's making a lot of saliva type noises (not sure if that makes sense) and licking his lips etc.

Also this morning, he was licking me a lot more than usual, on my legs and bare feet. Is this a sign of anything?

angela82 said:

From reading the symptoms of Spondylosis he seems to have nearly all of them - apparently it is diagnosed by carrying out an x-ray. Do they need to be sedated for x-rays?

Also is spondylosis constant? This morning when I came down to check him he was bright and stood up and looked like he'd had a good night and was much less stumbly, I did try some of the massage techniques I read on the links jbun gave me.

On a side note... he's got a wet patch on his dewlap now and he seems to be licking it a lot. This is a new thing, could it be anxiety? I've noticed he's making a lot of saliva type noises (not sure if that makes sense) and licking his lips etc.

Also this morning, he was licking me a lot more than usual, on my legs and bare feet. Is this a sign of anything?

Click to expand...

The effects of spondylosis can vary from day to day and/or throughout the day. Pain is usually involved and the specific pain associated with the condition can cause a Rabbit to overgroom/lick excessively and hypersalivate. However, licking/hypersalivation and 'saliva type noises' can also be caused by oral discomfort-ie Dental problems. So this would need to be checked out by the Vet.

Have you checked your Rabbit's undercarriage/bum ? Rabbits with hind leg weakness/spinal problems can struggle to keep themselves clean. This can lead to them licking their dewlap excessively as they cant get to the bit that is bothering them-ie their bum/undercarriage.

It is generally necessary to carry out Xrays under sedation in order to obtain appropriate views that would enable the Vet to make a diagnosis.But given your Rabbit's age the Vet may consider that sedation for Xrays is not appropriate and thus the Vet may suggest a trial of an increased dose of Metacam which is a non steroidal anti-inflammatory.If there were to be an improvement on a higher dose of Metacam this could add weight to the possibility of the problem being spine related. All xrays really do is confirm a diagnosis, they wont really provide any other treatment options. In younger Rabbits where the risks of sedation are less then xrays may be considered to be appropriate. But in an 8 year old Giant the Vet may feel that the risk of sedation is not one to be taken just to obtain xrays that wont actually change the treatment to be given. If that makes sense !!

You mention that your Rabbit is already on Metacam but can you clarify whether it is the DOG Metacam (1.5mg/ml) or the CAT Metacam (0.5mg/ml). Also, you say the dose prescribed is '1mg/day', do you mean 1ml/day ?

Rabbits metabolise Metacam at a much faster rate than other species and some Vets significantly underdose.

angela82 said:

From reading the symptoms of Spondylosis he seems to have nearly all of them - apparently it is diagnosed by carrying out an x-ray. Do they need to be sedated for x-rays?

Also is spondylosis constant? This morning when I came down to check him he was bright and stood up and looked like he'd had a good night and was much less stumbly, I did try some of the massage techniques I read on the links jbun gave me.

On a side note... he's got a wet patch on his dewlap now and he seems to be licking it a lot. This is a new thing, could it be anxiety? I've noticed he's making a lot of saliva type noises (not sure if that makes sense) and licking his lips etc.

Also this morning, he was licking me a lot more than usual, on my legs and bare feet. Is this a sign of anything?

Click to expand...

It would certainly be a good idea to have an X-ray so that you know exactly what you are dealing with. Metacam can be very hard on the kidneys, and no vet wishes to prescribe it without a diagnosis, if one is possible.

It's likely he would need sedation for an X-ray, but this could be very light and not at all like the anaesthetic given for a GA.

Physio and massage can go a very long way .. I managed an arthritic bun in this way for years - kept him on his feet and hopping! I devised my own set of exercises as the vet was at a loss, but you nay be able to get some advice?

My French lop Daisy's back legs became splayed and she was struggling to move around (she was 6.5 at the time) the vet told us that if there was no improvement within a few weeks it was likely to be permanent. As she was getting older we decided against X-rays etc due to the risk of anaesthetic. Your bun seems happy enough at the moment and I think a good owner can always tell when their bunny isn't quite right. Daisy eventually lost bladder and bowel control and stopped eating as much which indicated to use that she was loosing quality of life.

Jack's-Jane said:

The effects of spondylosis can vary from day to day and/or throughout the day. Pain is usually involved and the specific pain associated with the condition can cause a Rabbit to overgroom/lick excessively and hypersalivate. However, licking/hypersalivation and 'saliva type noises' can also be caused by oral discomfort-ie Dental problems. So this would need to be checked out by the Vet.

Have you checked your Rabbit's undercarriage/bum ? Rabbits with hind leg weakness/spinal problems can struggle to keep themselves clean. This can lead to them licking their dewlap excessively as they cant get to the bit that is bothering them-ie their bum/undercarriage.

It is generally necessary to carry out Xrays under sedation in order to obtain appropriate views that would enable the Vet to make a diagnosis.But given your Rabbit's age the Vet may consider that sedation for Xrays is not appropriate and thus the Vet may suggest a trial of an increased dose of Metacam which is a non steroidal anti-inflammatory.If there were to be an improvement on a higher dose of Metacam this could add weight to the possibility of the problem being spine related. All xrays really do is confirm a diagnosis, they wont really provide any other treatment options. In younger Rabbits where the risks of sedation are less then xrays may be considered to be appropriate. But in an 8 year old Giant the Vet may feel that the risk of sedation is not one to be taken just to obtain xrays that wont actually change the treatment to be given. If that makes sense !!

You mention that your Rabbit is already on Metacam but can you clarify whether it is the DOG Metacam (1.5mg/ml) or the CAT Metacam (0.5mg/ml). Also, you say the dose prescribed is '1mg/day', do you mean 1ml/day ?

Rabbits metabolise Metacam at a much faster rate than other species and some Vets significantly underdose.

Click to expand...

Hi, it's the dog metacam and yes I meant 1ml a day, sorry!

Everytime we take him to the vet, his teeth are checked and they have been fine, but I will get them to check again.

Yes we're very good about keeping his bottom clean, we check it every day and shampoo/wash him as necessary.

Is there anything I can do to stop him licking? He has problems with his eyes streaming and has been prescribed fucithalmic in the past to clear any infection and I have to clean it with warm cotton wool and keep it dry as best I can. I also have a solution to help break down the wax in his ears and keep them clean, as he can't clean them himself.

With regards to his eyes, has anyone tried flushing the tear ducts themselves? I've heard you can buy kits, as he's got older one of his eyes is permanently watering.

angela82 said:

Hi, it's the dog metacam and yes I meant 1ml a day, sorry!

Everytime we take him to the vet, his teeth are checked and they have been fine, but I will get them to check again.

Yes we're very good about keeping his bottom clean, we check it every day and shampoo/wash him as necessary.

Is there anything I can do to stop him licking? He has problems with his eyes streaming and has been prescribed fucithalmic in the past to clear any infection and I have to clean it with warm cotton wool and keep it dry as best I can. I also have a solution to help break down the wax in his ears and keep them clean, as he can't clean them himself.

With regards to his eyes, has anyone tried flushing the tear ducts themselves? I've heard you can buy kits, as he's got older one of his eyes is permanently watering.

Click to expand...

Do you have a syringe that comes with the Metacam with dog-weights on it?




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angela82 said:

Hi, it's the dog metacam and yes I meant 1ml a day, sorry!

Everytime we take him to the vet, his teeth are checked and they have been fine, but I will get them to check again.

Yes we're very good about keeping his bottom clean, we check it every day and shampoo/wash him as necessary.

Is there anything I can do to stop him licking? He has problems with his eyes streaming and has been prescribed fucithalmic in the past to clear any infection and I have to clean it with warm cotton wool and keep it dry as best I can. I also have a solution to help break down the wax in his ears and keep them clean, as he can't clean them himself.

With regards to his eyes, has anyone tried flushing the tear ducts themselves? I've heard you can buy kits, as he's got older one of his eyes is permanently watering.

Click to expand...

Yes, always did it myself for my rabbit that needed it.

I had vet instruction and the kit was given to me by the vet. I did it every 6 weeks.

MightyMax said:

Yes, always did it myself for my rabbit that needed it.

I had vet instruction and the kit was given to me by the vet. I did it every 6 weeks.

Click to expand...

I'll have to ask the vet about this - is it easy? Does it stress the rabbit at all?

SJH said:

Do you have a syringe that comes with the Metacam with dog-weights on it?




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Click to expand...

no, the vet decanted the 10ml into a smaller bottle and it just has the word (dog) in brackets, which is how I know the type. Stanley weighs 5.6kgs.

Ah ok. Sorry, I only know the equivalent dog weight from the syringe (which is at least twice the rabbit weight effectively).

I hope he's feeling better. Poor big man. He's got such a sweet face. It's such a worry when they are poorly.

Lots of nose rubs and Hector hugs.


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