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Post mortem, worth informing yourself so that you can be ready when the time comes ..

Bunny Buddy

Bunny Buddy

Wise Old Thumper
It's not an easy subject to discuss and think about but I know how much an unexplained death can carry on haunting and tormenting you. I may have been able to forgive myself for Scrappy's death long ago if I had know 'why'. So, here's an article to prepare you for what to expect, and the value to you as well as your vet:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/research/post-mortem-examination

I've had three post mortems done now and I have to say they helped enormously with coming to terms with my losses. They also helped me give some meaning to their passing - the vet's knowing why it happened and being able to match up the symptoms/other diagnostic values with the causes may one day help other rabbits. That aspect gave me great comfort.

It's not for everybody and I'm really not sure I could have agreed to it with Artie, but as it says in the article, it is a difficult question for your vet to ask, but if you are already prepared for the idea of it and understand the value of it then maybe more owners will feel able to consent and more will be learnt.
 
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Bunny Buddy said:
It's not an easy subject to discuss and think about but I know how much an unexplained death can carry on haunting and tormenting you. I may have been able to forgive myself for Scrappy's death long ago if I had know 'why'. So, here's an article to prepare you for what to expect, and the value to you as well as your vet:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/research/post-mortem-examination

I've had three post mortems done now and I have to say they helped enormously with coming to terms with my losses. They also helped me give some meaning to their passing - the vet's knowing why it happened and being able to match up the symptoms/other diagnostic values with the causes may one day help other rabbits. That aspect gave me great comfort.

It's not for everybody and I'm really not sure I could have agreed to it with Artie, but as it says in the article, it is a difficult question for your vet to ask, but if you are already prepared for the idea of it and understand the value of it then maybe more owners will feel able to consent and more will be learnt.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing to be prepared for certainly. Thank you BB.

Can I ask what sort of costs are involved with a PM? I realise they will vary, but a 'ball park' starting figure maybe. I'm sure that after having paid lots of vets fees to help a little one, funds will be vastly depleted in many cases ...
 
MightyMax said:
It's a good thing to be prepared for certainly. Thank you BB.

Can I ask what sort of costs are involved with a PM? I realise they will vary, but a 'ball park' starting figure maybe. I'm sure that after having paid lots of vets fees to help a little one, funds will be vastly depleted in many cases ...
Click to expand...

My rabbit died suddenly and unexpectedly so I asked for a PM. It cost £450, but was worth it as it revealed that she'd had coccidiosis. There had been no clinical signs whatsoever (she'd been examined by a vet only 3 days earlier after a spay and showed now symptoms / ate and pooped normally) the vet was certain that she'd had coccidiosis when I adopted her from P@H.
I was worried that my rabbit may have passed infection on to other rabbits so went to P@H to make sure that they carried out a suitable cleaning regime. When I explained what had happened they paid all of the vet bills including the PM. Having the results helped me come to terms with what had happened and removed the 'what if?' element that always seem to be present when you lose a pet.
 
MightyMax said:
Can I ask what sort of costs are involved with a PM? I realise they will vary, but a 'ball park' starting figure maybe. I'm sure that after having paid lots of vets fees to help a little one, funds will be vastly depleted in many cases ...
Click to expand...

I don't know as I've never been charged for them.

In the case of Izzy I presented them with a 7 month old apparently healthy rabbit that had stopped eating the day before. She died before they got chance to do a laparoscopy. They asked if they could do one as they were keen to know what had caused it. Edit to add: I wasn't really registered with their practice at that time but it was the way all this was dealt with that made me go back there.

Shadow died under GA, so again it was my vet who requested the chance to do it. She had never had a rabbit die under GA for something routine (dental) without a serious underlying condition so wanted to find out why as it was a complete shock. He did indeed have a very serious underlying condition.

I offered with Binky. From past experience I know they needed to know as much if not more than I did.
 
Bunny Buddy said:
I don't know as I've never been charged for them.

In the case of Izzy I presented them with a 7 month old apparently healthy rabbit that had stopped eating the day before. She died before they got chance to do a laparoscopy. They asked if they could do one as they were keen to know what had caused it. Edit to add: I wasn't really registered with their practice at that time but it was the way all this was dealt with that made me go back there.

Shadow died under GA, so again it was my vet who requested the chance to do it. She had never had a rabbit die under GA for something routine (dental) without a serious underlying condition so wanted to find out why as it was a complete shock. He did indeed have a very serious underlying condition.

I offered with Binky. From past experience I know they needed to know as much if not more than I did.
Click to expand...

That's very kind of them.

It certainly is something extremely worth doing from a 'closure' point of view.
 
Bunny Buddy said:
It's not an easy subject to discuss and think about but I know how much an unexplained death can carry on haunting and tormenting you. I may have been able to forgive myself for Scrappy's death long ago if I had know 'why'. So, here's an article to prepare you for what to expect, and the value to you as well as your vet:

https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/research/post-mortem-examination

I've had three post mortems done now and I have to say they helped enormously with coming to terms with my losses. They also helped me give some meaning to their passing - the vet's knowing why it happened and being able to match up the symptoms/other diagnostic values with the causes may one day help other rabbits. That aspect gave me great comfort.

It's not for everybody and I'm really not sure I could have agreed to it with Artie, but as it says in the article, it is a difficult question for your vet to ask, but if you are already prepared for the idea of it and understand the value of it then maybe more owners will feel able to consent and more will be learnt.
Click to expand...

Thank you for highlighting this sensitive but very important matter. I too feel that a PM can help with the over-all coming to terms with a loss. Also, as you say, the fact that any findings may help in the future treatment of other Rabbits is of some comfort. Seeming to make my personal loss not entirely pointless. As I mentioned previously it was essential for me to try to established why such a young, vibrant Rabbit like Sir Victor became so acutely ill and died so quickly. The presenting symptoms being different to any either me or C, Laura or Wendy had seen before. Now all three Vets have gained knowledge which will remain with them for the rest of their professional careers.

Maybe agreeing to a PM is less of an issue for people such as myself, I do not believe that the body remains the specific Rabbit after death, just a vessel the Rabbit's soul no longer needs. I respect the fact that not everyone will feel that way and the thought of a PM may be repugnant to them.

C has never charge me for a PM either, even if other Vets have also been involved, including FHB re Sir Victor.
 
I've not read the link yet but we have nearly aways have PM's done on our rabbits. We have learnt so much from them over the years and so have our vets. They have certainly helped us give the right care to future rabbits. I must also say that not once have we ever regretted making the decision to pts when we have the PM result. Each one has confirmed we did the right thing which for us makes it just a little easier to live with.

The cost for us is around £36 then extra if any samples are sent of for analysis.
 
I agree with you Jane...I feel that the bunny we knew is no longer in its body...and think the knowledge gained could help save more bunnies.
But what would worry me is if I have another bunny who is bonded with the rabbit who has died....I want a PM done but it needs to be done asap obviously but i also want to take the bunny home so its bunny friend can see that they are no longer with us...how would this work for a PM to be done? How do you incorporate the bunny thats left behind..?

Jack's-Jane said:
Thank you for highlighting this sensitive but very important matter. I too feel that a PM can help with the over-all coming to terms with a loss. Also, as you say, the fact that any findings may help in the future treatment of other Rabbits is of some comfort. Seeming to make my personal loss not entirely pointless. As I mentioned previously it was essential for me to try to established why such a young, vibrant Rabbit like Sir Victor became so acutely ill and died so quickly. The presenting symptoms being different to any either me or C, Laura or Wendy had seen before. Now all three Vets have gained knowledge which will remain with them for the rest of their professional careers.

Maybe agreeing to a PM is less of an issue for people such as myself, I do not believe that the body remains the specific Rabbit after death, just a vessel the Rabbit's soul no longer needs. I respect the fact that not everyone will feel that way and the thought of a PM may be repugnant to them.

C has never charge me for a PM either, even if other Vets have also been involved, including FHB re Sir Victor.
Click to expand...
 
When Skye died at Antons under the care of John Chitty, I asked him to do a PM as I needed to know why. I expected to be charged for it but he never did - I suspect he wanted to investigate for his own learning as Skye had some very complex issues and odd symptoms.
 
chelle said:
But what would worry me is if I have another bunny who is bonded with the rabbit who has died....I want a PM done but it needs to be done asap obviously but i also want to take the bunny home so its bunny friend can see that they are no longer with us...how would this work for a PM to be done? How do you incorporate the bunny thats left behind..?
Click to expand...

That is definitely the hard decision. For me when Shadow died unexpected under GA his brother (companion) was with him at the vets so I asked for Shadow to be left with him for a while before the PM was done. It wasn't as long as I would have liked but I had to give some priority to my vet's need to understand. Binky did get to say goodbye, I wanted to be there as it was an important time for me to see them as they had a close bond. It tore me apart that I couldn't be with them (too far away), just to request it be done.

When Binky died he had been at the vets for a few days anyway and Binky had had surgery. I'm not 100% sure I would have shown Esme anyway.
 
I would have liked to know what my first rabbit died of but it was too difficult a time: he was a happy, fairly healthy almost-11 year old who had a seizure and died very shortly (minutes) later. But our vets were maybe not rabbit-savvy, and it was 1998.

I hope I would be able to get one done if the cause was not readily apparent: when you have another rabbit sharing the space it is important to rule out infectious stuff. Even if the cause remains unknown, it can at least rule out many other things. Thankyou for posting the link, I will have a read later because, well, you never know with rabbits, do you!
 
I think this is an important discussion, it can be quite difficult to talk about.
As a vet nurse I have seen a few PMs before, it is really useful for vets to understand what happened and can help other animals in the future and also give you (and the vet) some closure.
 
Having a Pm is not something I'd really considered previously but is something I would certainly do in the case of a sudden or unexplained death , for my own peace of mind and to potentially make me aware of any risks to my remaining rabbits.
 
When my bunny Joe died suddenly last year we had a PM done.I seem to remember a basic PM costing £70ish and obviously for further investigations a lot more depending on what was done.A student vet had an initial look which was no charge and then we had the basic PM done by a qualified vet.No cause was found but im sure it would have been a useful experience for the student nurse.
It was worth trying anyway but difficult to make that decision when youre uoset.
 
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