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Gastric Ulcers

ergodic

ergodic

New Kit
I came here since it seems I am finding more threads about Ulcers then on other places.
George my 1.5 year old holland lop, appears to have gastric ulcer caused by stress.
I originally took him in for stasis but the vets felt no gas and he was in no pain (stomach pain).
His only symptom,before hand, was excessive cecals.

Monday he was extremely anemic (red blood cell count was at 11%) and showing signs of liver failure.
He has been checked for hephatic coccidia, liver torsion and other infections.
As of Thursday he is back up to 24% red blood cell count. He had a fever but it was down to 104.4 F/ 40.22 C.
Knock on wood, it seems he is recovering well and may be coming home today.

The vets said he will probably be on sucralfate and Ranitidine (Zantac) to help with his ulcer(s).

Does any one have much experience with these and are there thing I should watch for such as side effects?

Thank you in advance.
 
I am sorry that your Rabbit has been unwell.

I have had a few Rabbits who have been prescribed Ranitidine and Sucralfate for GI tract problems and none exhibited any side effects.

Did the Vet do blood cultures ? It seems infection is/was involved as your Rabbit was febrile.

This thread may be useful to take a look at:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...ology-results-back-from-Lois-s-PM-please-read

I hope that your Rabbit will make a full recovery xx
 
A little more good news his rbc was up to 26% and his temperature is back down to 103.9/39.9.
Actually he only showed signs of a fever yesterday. Actually during the entire process his temperature was pretty stable at 100/37.77 it did drop one night and they had him in a incubator.

I will definitely check with them this evening if they about a blood culture, but he has been on abx since they had no clue what was causing it.

Thanks for the link I am going to go through after I finish this.

Are there are any other question I should ask the vet?
 
Last edited:
ergodic said:
I came here since it seems I am finding more threads about Ulcers then on other places.
George my 1.5 year old holland lop, appears to have gastric ulcer caused by stress.
I originally took him in for stasis but the vets felt no gas and he was in no pain (stomach pain).
His only symptom,before hand, was excessive cecals.

Monday he was extremely anemic (red blood cell count was at 11%) and showing signs of liver failure.
He has been checked for hephatic coccidia, liver torsion and other infections.
As of Thursday he is back up to 24% red blood cell count. He had a fever but it was down to 104.4 F/ 40.22 C.
Knock on wood, it seems he is recovering well and may be coming home today.

The vets said he will probably be on sucralfate and Ranitidine (Zantac) to help with his ulcer(s).

Does any one have much experience with these and are there thing I should watch for such as side effects?

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear about your poorly rabbit.

I have used these two drugs in rabbits, and there's some more info on sucralfate here:

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00Chem/ChComplex/Sucralfate.htm

Zantac is the most common med to heal gastric ulcers.

If he's been on antibiotics, then it's no use doing a blood culture. In addition, it won't necessarily show up an infection. Talk to your vet about that one ...

Good luck xx
 
I agree with mightymax a blood culture can't be done if antibiotics have been used.

I hope your bunny continues to improve
 
Thanks for the info, that is sort of what I thought. I will just be on the look out for it. Below I will put what exactly happened in case someone has something similar (sorry about the temperature being in F I tried to convert):

I wanted to share my bunny George's experience. George is 1.5 years old and pretty high strung and stress out pretty easily, gets a runny nose going to the vet. My vet is almost positive it is stress related.

Anyway for the month of May I was having some house work done and it was pretty loud. The finished by May 30th. June 1st I notice during George's normal bed time he was pretty stressed out and would not go to bed.
The following Tuesday I was noticing mushy cecals so I called my vet to check about putting him on an all hay diet thinking it was another bout of stasis (he had had one in January). She thought it was a good idea. By Thursday I had seen no cecals. So I started by introducing an oxbow barley biscuit with some bene-bac and a booster x supplement since he has had upper respiratory problems. In the mean time he was eating tons and tons of hay.

Friday and Saturday I noticed a return of the cecals, they were well formed, but he would eat them if I pointed him to them. I was going out Sunday morning before I left George was continuing to eat hay like a horse.

I get back Sunday I notice George and Gracie (bonded friend) getting ready to sleep. I watched George and saw the cecals so I turned him around hoping he would eat them. He refused, So I got a little piece of hay which loves to eat, again he would not eat. Finally tried a piece of his favorite treat, refused to eat it. I knew something was wrong so I called the emergency vet luckily they exiotic specialist on staff. Go to the vet about 3pm. They looked at him, and said they felt no gas and his stomach was in no pain so they did not think it was stasis. They suggested I check with my normal vet on Monday morning. I gave him some critical care about 8pm and nothing the only thing he wanted to do was sleep in the corner.
So I take him back toe the emergency vet this time they decided they needed to observe him because he dehydrated.

I left him there Monday and got a call saying that there was not change his temperature at 100 F 37.77 which was good and his gut was just not moving. At this time they gave him some med just in case he had ulcers. Monday afternoon no change I ask for blood work. Get a call in the evening that George is blood work looked bleak. His red blood cell count was at 11% and he was showing signs of liver failure. They immediately considered coccidia lymphoma or a possible torsion, but he had no pain so they we pretty sure it was not a torsion. The vet also told me she understood why George only wanted to sleep. They gave him pretty much every medicine they could in case it was an infection.

I did not sleep much Monday, Tuesday morning comes around George is stable temperature is good, his gut is slowly starting to move.
Tuesday morning his red blood cells were up to 13% so the vet felt a little better that they had stopped whatever bleeding was going on. More over he had 4 poops .The vets told me after getting his history, that they suspect he had a stress ulcer and he had been bleeding they said that they though this had been going on for some time just no one noticed. I honestly never saw any blood in his stools and I check them pretty regularly.

Anyway today is Wednesday, and he is doing pretty well, this morning his red blood count was up to 18% they will only be measuring it once a day, and he is nibbling on some lettuce and he is defecating on his own.

They suspect that the cecals I was seeing was related to Melena. The body digesting the blood.

He still has a long way to go, but in all my searching I have not found a similar story on the internet, and I wanted to share.

The evening of Wednesday June 10th for some reason his temp spiked up to 105/40.6 106/41.11 and came back down to 105/40.6. They also did a ultrasound Thursday June 11th, his liver and intestines looked good he was showing some fluid (not a lot), the vet think he was reabsorbing it. His rbc was at 24% and his temperature came down to 104.4 F/ 40.22 C.

This morning June 12 rbc was at 26% and his body temp was at 103.9/39.9 and he was being feisty, and happy little bunny he normally is.
 
ergodic said:
Thanks for the info, that is sort of what I thought. I will just be on the look out for it. Below I will put what exactly happened in case someone has something similar (sorry about the temperature being in F I tried to convert):

I wanted to share my bunny George's experience. George is 1.5 years old and pretty high strung and stress out pretty easily, gets a runny nose going to the vet. My vet is almost positive it is stress related.

Anyway for the month of May I was having some house work done and it was pretty loud. The finished by May 30th. June 1st I notice during George's normal bed time he was pretty stressed out and would not go to bed.
The following Tuesday I was noticing mushy cecals so I called my vet to check about putting him on an all hay diet thinking it was another bout of stasis (he had had one in January). She thought it was a good idea. By Thursday I had seen no cecals. So I started by introducing an oxbow barley biscuit with some bene-bac and a booster x supplement since he has had upper respiratory problems. In the mean time he was eating tons and tons of hay.

Friday and Saturday I noticed a return of the cecals, they were well formed, but he would eat them if I pointed him to them. I was going out Sunday morning before I left George was continuing to eat hay like a horse.

I get back Sunday I notice George and Gracie (bonded friend) getting ready to sleep. I watched George and saw the cecals so I turned him around hoping he would eat them. He refused, So I got a little piece of hay which loves to eat, again he would not eat. Finally tried a piece of his favorite treat, refused to eat it. I knew something was wrong so I called the emergency vet luckily they exiotic specialist on staff. Go to the vet about 3pm. They looked at him, and said they felt no gas and his stomach was in no pain so they did not think it was stasis. They suggested I check with my normal vet on Monday morning. I gave him some critical care about 8pm and nothing the only thing he wanted to do was sleep in the corner.
So I take him back toe the emergency vet this time they decided they needed to observe him because he dehydrated.

I left him there Monday and got a call saying that there was not change his temperature at 100 F 37.77 which was good and his gut was just not moving. At this time they gave him some med just in case he had ulcers. Monday afternoon no change I ask for blood work. Get a call in the evening that George is blood work looked bleak. His red blood cell count was at 11% and he was showing signs of liver failure. They immediately considered coccidia lymphoma or a possible torsion, but he had no pain so they we pretty sure it was not a torsion. The vet also told me she understood why George only wanted to sleep. They gave him pretty much every medicine they could in case it was an infection.

I did not sleep much Monday, Tuesday morning comes around George is stable temperature is good, his gut is slowly starting to move.
Tuesday morning his red blood cells were up to 13% so the vet felt a little better that they had stopped whatever bleeding was going on. More over he had 4 poops .The vets told me after getting his history, that they suspect he had a stress ulcer and he had been bleeding they said that they though this had been going on for some time just no one noticed. I honestly never saw any blood in his stools and I check them pretty regularly.

Anyway today is Wednesday, and he is doing pretty well, this morning his red blood count was up to 18% they will only be measuring it once a day, and he is nibbling on some lettuce and he is defecating on his own.

They suspect that the cecals I was seeing was related to Melena. The body digesting the blood.

He still has a long way to go, but in all my searching I have not found a similar story on the internet, and I wanted to share.

The evening of Wednesday June 10th for some reason his temp spiked up to 105/40.6 106/41.11 and came back down to 105/40.6. They also did a ultrasound Thursday June 11th, his liver and intestines looked good he was showing some fluid (not a lot), the vet think he was reabsorbing it. His rbc was at 24% and his temperature came down to 104.4 F/ 40.22 C.

This morning June 12 rbc was at 26% and his body temp was at 103.9/39.9 and he was being feisty, and happy little bunny he normally is.
Click to expand...

Thank you for going to the trouble of posting the details of George's illness. I hope that by now you have had a good update about him from the Vet and that he is continuing to improve. Even if you never find out exactly what was wrong, him getting better is the most important thing. Hopefully he will soon be able to return home xx
 
ergodic said:
Thanks for the info, that is sort of what I thought. I will just be on the look out for it. Below I will put what exactly happened in case someone has something similar (sorry about the temperature being in F I tried to convert):

I wanted to share my bunny George's experience. George is 1.5 years old and pretty high strung and stress out pretty easily, gets a runny nose going to the vet. My vet is almost positive it is stress related.

Anyway for the month of May I was having some house work done and it was pretty loud. The finished by May 30th. June 1st I notice during George's normal bed time he was pretty stressed out and would not go to bed.
The following Tuesday I was noticing mushy cecals so I called my vet to check about putting him on an all hay diet thinking it was another bout of stasis (he had had one in January). She thought it was a good idea. By Thursday I had seen no cecals. So I started by introducing an oxbow barley biscuit with some bene-bac and a booster x supplement since he has had upper respiratory problems. In the mean time he was eating tons and tons of hay.

Friday and Saturday I noticed a return of the cecals, they were well formed, but he would eat them if I pointed him to them. I was going out Sunday morning before I left George was continuing to eat hay like a horse.

I get back Sunday I notice George and Gracie (bonded friend) getting ready to sleep. I watched George and saw the cecals so I turned him around hoping he would eat them. He refused, So I got a little piece of hay which loves to eat, again he would not eat. Finally tried a piece of his favorite treat, refused to eat it. I knew something was wrong so I called the emergency vet luckily they exiotic specialist on staff. Go to the vet about 3pm. They looked at him, and said they felt no gas and his stomach was in no pain so they did not think it was stasis. They suggested I check with my normal vet on Monday morning. I gave him some critical care about 8pm and nothing the only thing he wanted to do was sleep in the corner.
So I take him back toe the emergency vet this time they decided they needed to observe him because he dehydrated.

I left him there Monday and got a call saying that there was not change his temperature at 100 F 37.77 which was good and his gut was just not moving. At this time they gave him some med just in case he had ulcers. Monday afternoon no change I ask for blood work. Get a call in the evening that George is blood work looked bleak. His red blood cell count was at 11% and he was showing signs of liver failure. They immediately considered coccidia lymphoma or a possible torsion, but he had no pain so they we pretty sure it was not a torsion. The vet also told me she understood why George only wanted to sleep. They gave him pretty much every medicine they could in case it was an infection.

I did not sleep much Monday, Tuesday morning comes around George is stable temperature is good, his gut is slowly starting to move.
Tuesday morning his red blood cells were up to 13% so the vet felt a little better that they had stopped whatever bleeding was going on. More over he had 4 poops .The vets told me after getting his history, that they suspect he had a stress ulcer and he had been bleeding they said that they though this had been going on for some time just no one noticed. I honestly never saw any blood in his stools and I check them pretty regularly.

Anyway today is Wednesday, and he is doing pretty well, this morning his red blood count was up to 18% they will only be measuring it once a day, and he is nibbling on some lettuce and he is defecating on his own.

They suspect that the cecals I was seeing was related to Melena. The body digesting the blood.

He still has a long way to go, but in all my searching I have not found a similar story on the internet, and I wanted to share.

The evening of Wednesday June 10th for some reason his temp spiked up to 105/40.6 106/41.11 and came back down to 105/40.6. They also did a ultrasound Thursday June 11th, his liver and intestines looked good he was showing some fluid (not a lot), the vet think he was reabsorbing it. His rbc was at 24% and his temperature came down to 104.4 F/ 40.22 C.

This morning June 12 rbc was at 26% and his body temp was at 103.9/39.9 and he was being feisty, and happy little bunny he normally is.
Click to expand...


You're very kind to update us on his health and your experiences. We all learn so much from one another here, and it's always very valuable.

I do hope everything progresses well with George. Our little companions are often so difficult to understand, but we do our best :D
 
You can do cultures if they've had antibiotics. If the antibiotics aren't working the organism will still be there. You can also deactivate common antibiotics by adding specific things to the media used. You do it differently but it can still be done.
 
RedFraggle said:
You can do cultures if they've had antibiotics. If the antibiotics aren't working the organism will still be there. You can also deactivate common antibiotics by adding specific things to the media used. You do it differently but it can still be done.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying that RF :D
 
RedFraggle said:
You can do cultures if they've had antibiotics. If the antibiotics aren't working the organism will still be there. You can also deactivate common antibiotics by adding specific things to the media used. You do it differently but it can still be done.
Click to expand...

That's good to know RedFraggle. My vet has only ever said not to do a culture when on antibiotics - great to have an input from FHB (if it was!)

ETA: Just been researching blood cultures whilst on antibiotics and it seems to be done regularly in hospitals (on humans). The best practice seems to be to draw the blood just *before* the next dose of abx.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the info. It is very useful. He is back home. He is currently on:

If you would like to know the dosages
abx
Metrodonidazole
Penicillin (sub q)
Any advice for this one, his main problem with him is it is like wrestling with a pig.

(Gi Protectant)
Sucralfate

(Liver protectant)
Lactulose w Milk Thistle

(pain)
Metacam (should I be worried about this one?)

Yunnan Baiyao (for increased clotting times)

He has a lot of energy, and feeling fairly good, he even flopped out.

Trying to get him back to his hay been supplementing it with critical care. He will eat lettuce, and pellets, and some hay.
 
MightyMax said:
That's good to know RedFraggle. My vet has only ever said not to do a culture when on antibiotics - great to have an input from FHB (if it was!)

ETA: Just been researching blood cultures whilst on antibiotics and it seems to be done regularly in hospitals (on humans). The best practice seems to be to draw the blood just *before* the next dose of abx.
Click to expand...

Indeed. They do it all the time in people. Not info from FHB, I inspect microbiology labs within my job.
 
ergodic said:
Thanks for the info. It is very useful. He is back home. He is currently on:

If you would like to know the dosages
abx
Metrodonidazole
Penicillin (sub q)
Any advice for this one, his main problem with him is it is like wrestling with a pig.

(Gi Protectant)
Sucralfate

(Liver protectant)
Lactulose w Milk Thistle

(pain)
Metacam (should I be worried about this one?)

Yunnan Baiyao (for increased clotting times)

He has a lot of energy, and feeling fairly good, he even flopped out.

Trying to get him back to his hay been supplementing it with critical care. He will eat lettuce, and pellets, and some hay.
Click to expand...

I am glad to hear that he is now home and appearing to be in reasonably good spirits.

Do you have someone to hold him as you give him the SQ Penicillin ? If he is a real wriggler you may find it easier to have the help of an extra pair of hands.

Good to see that Lactulose and Milk Thistle is in the Rx regime, my Vet has prescribed this for one of my Rabbits who had a Liver problem. I hope that things continue to improve and that your Rabbit will make a full recovery xx
 
RedFraggle said:
Indeed. They do it all the time in people. Not info from FHB, I inspect microbiology labs within my job.
Click to expand...

Vets very rarely request blood cultures. Both the vets we spoke to about it have never requested one in their entire careers. Both are great vets and one has been qualified since 1993. So definitely not something that is regularly done. My bunny had been on antibiotics so they were unable to culture anything and we will never know what the bacteria was :(
 
ergodic said:
Thanks for the info. It is very useful. He is back home. He is currently on:

If you would like to know the dosages
abx
Metrodonidazole
Penicillin (sub q)
Any advice for this one, his main problem with him is it is like wrestling with a pig.

(Gi Protectant)
Sucralfate

(Liver protectant)
Lactulose w Milk Thistle

(pain)
Metacam (should I be worried about this one?)

Yunnan Baiyao (for increased clotting times)

He has a lot of energy, and feeling fairly good, he even flopped out.

Trying to get him back to his hay been supplementing it with critical care. He will eat lettuce, and pellets, and some hay.
Click to expand...

Thank you for providing his protocol. I don't think there is cause to be concerned about the Metacam at the moment - I wouldn't be. Milk Thistle and Lactulose are good, as you say for protecting the liver :thumb:

Regarding the Penicillin injections - It may be that he is picking up on your nervousness? If one person can hold him steady on their lap, then the other can confidently (hopefully!) pick up a piece of the 'scruff' or thereabouts and tent it, getting the injection done quickly. Your vet nurse could maybe give you other tips as to get this done more easily?
 
This is some great info, and thanks for all the input. His digestive track was moving last night, must have been all the critical care. He is eating romaine no problem. He will eat hay and pellets and some hay as well, it just feels like not quite what he need.

I actually took him to the a vet tech, for the pen g shot, this morning he is getting a lot of fight.
He has also told me on no uncertain term where he expect his litter pan to be placed.

I feel very lucky just to have him back.
 
Hugo's There said:
Vets very rarely request blood cultures. Both the vets we spoke to about it have never requested one in their entire careers. Both are great vets and one has been qualified since 1993. So definitely not something that is regularly done. My bunny had been on antibiotics so they were unable to culture anything and we will never know what the bacteria was :(
Click to expand...

I didn't say they did it regularly in rabbits Liz just that it is a myth you can't do a blood culture because antibiotics are in use. Some organisms are what is known as viable but non-culturables (known as VBNC) I.e. You just cannot isolate, culture and ID them. The inability to culture in the sad case of your rabbit could have been that, not the antibiotics.
 
Last edited:
No problem Liz. Vets don't often understand microbiology, for the most part they don't need to, but for future reference for folks, if they were to tell a lab what antibiotics were in use they would be able to add something to deactivate.
You actually have to test antibiotics for microbial contamination before they go into the supply chain. So the method has to be able to demonstrate that the most common organisms can be grown during the test, in the presence of the antibiotic. It's all clever stuff!
 
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