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We have the histology results back from Lois's PM - please read

Hugo's There

Wise Old Thumper
For those that didn't read Lois's original thread it is here - http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?443913-Lois-is-poorly-sleep-tight-Lois

In summary I had a niggle about her for quite some time but nothing really presented itself. Then she got mites and a bit depressed. The mites were treated. She didn't improve so a short course of antibiotics were given which helped a little. Once they stopped she became depressed again but was still eating and feisty enough. Last Monday evening her appetite started to reduce, only nibbling veg. By wednesday she was admitted and every diagnostic was tried but with no answers until they did an exploratory laparotomy on Friday which showed half her liver had turned white. We then decided to let her go under the GA.


We have had the histology results back from Lois's post mortem. There was a lot of complicated info to take in during a short phone call so I hope it makes sense as I didn't understand it all but will try my best -
We knew that part of her liver was white. This was an infarct, which means it was dead tissue. It looked very similar to VHD and we hadn't been able to vaccinate in April so they ruled this out first. The dead tissue was caused by a bacteria. However they were unable to culture the bacteria so we do not know what it was. We think this is because she had a course of antibiotics a couple of weeks earlier ( which did make her a little better). She has a history of pasturella so it could quite possibly be this. A sample of spleen was also sent and this showed the same damage. This showed she was slowly going in to sepsis.
I asked if there was any way this could have been diagnosed earlier and the only possibility would have been to have her blood cultured. In all his career he has never requested blood to be cultured so it really is a very rare problem. I asked if a longer course of antibiotics would have worked and again no. The antibiotics we gave her earlier were doing their job and killing the bacteria but the damage they had caused her organs was permanent. The liver only being half damaged should have started to regenerate but for reasons unknown it wasn't.
I asked if it is a risk to our other rabbits but because we don;t know the bacteria involved we really don't know. If others do become ill with similar symptoms then we know to culture the blood. But tbh Lois had not been quite right for a very long time so I think if we were going to see a spread we would have seen something by now.
Given Lois's very vague symptoms I think we all did everything we possibly could for her over the last few weeks and definitely made the right decision before she went into full blown sepsis.
I hope that makes some sense to people. Its not something we have ever come across before. But maybe one day the into may help someone.
 
Thanks for posting, it's always hard to share such information but as you say it may help someone else some day so well worth doing.

It sounds like you have peace about your decision to let Lois go when you did, which was incredibly hard given that you didn't know what you were dealing with.
 
Poor Lois. You realise there is so much going on in side that can be missed due to its rarity and even now still not knowing what it was. I hope whatever the bacteria was it isn't something ever likely to affect the others.
 
Oh I am really really sorry that you lost lovely Lois. Poor little sweetheart. RIP Lois x
 
Sorry you lost Lois.

I would speculate that there was more going on internally - maybe a problem with her immune response in general - and whatever it was may have been a 'normal' bug that won't normally affect the other buns.

We had one rabbit who was found to have a mass of previously infected soft tissue mass in her mouth. It was sent to the labs but they could not identify the bugs either - it was all dead tissue and quite unusual. I saw it before it was sent off - it looked like lean minced meat rather than pus. She did, however, still have some liver involvement (which resolved over a couple of months), an active jaw infection which eventually won.

It's the mites issue that gets me every time - it always seems to point to something else going on - and is often a life limiting condition, in my experience.
 
Sorry you lost Lois.

I would speculate that there was more going on internally - maybe a problem with her immune response in general - and whatever it was may have been a 'normal' bug that won't normally affect the other buns.

We had one rabbit who was found to have a mass of previously infected soft tissue mass in her mouth. It was sent to the labs but they could not identify the bugs either - it was all dead tissue and quite unusual. I saw it before it was sent off - it looked like lean minced meat rather than pus. She did, however, still have some liver involvement (which resolved over a couple of months), an active jaw infection which eventually won.

It's the mites issue that gets me every time - it always seems to point to something else going on - and is often a life limiting condition, in my experience
.

This is an interesting observation as my first rabbit had mites, following her first course of mite treatment within a week she had mites again and was really infested with them. She had a second course of mite treatment and two weeks into that I found her dead. My vets at the time were useless and I always regret not realising the mites were an indication of something serious underlying. My vet now of course would pick up on it and the ones at the time should have done.... It's certainly something that will always ring serious alarm bells for me now.
 
Obviously we were very aware that the mites could indicate a serious problem. But given the lack of symptoms the vet decided to treat mites first and investigate further if any symptoms presented themselves. When she started sneezing after that, given her history, we went straight for antibiotics.

I think even if we had investigated further at the mite stage we would have found nothing. Unless a vet randomly decided to do a blood culture.
 
Obviously we were very aware that the mites could indicate a serious problem. But given the lack of symptoms the vet decided to treat mites first and investigate further if any symptoms presented themselves. When she started sneezing after that, given her history, we went straight for antibiotics.

I think even if we had investigated further at the mite stage we would have found nothing. Unless a vet randomly decided to do a blood culture.

You do a wonderful job. If only rabbits could give us a better indication of what was wrong.

I just hate that feeling of dread when I find mites - they are so easily treated on their own - but, as Bunny Buddy said - it's just the alarm bells that start ringing.

RIP Lois.
 
Thank you so much for posting this. I really appreciate it, even though it may have been difficult for you to do.

You did everything you could, and so did your vet. In a human who is going into sepsis they would have IV antibiotics. I guess Lois was at the stage where nothing would have helped.

You really do pull out all the stops for your buns. They are so lucky to have you :)
 
Thank you so much for posting this. I really appreciate it, even though it may have been difficult for you to do.

You did everything you could, and so did your vet. In a human who is going into sepsis they would have IV antibiotics. I guess Lois was at the stage where nothing would have helped.

You really do pull out all the stops for your buns. They are so lucky to have you :)

Thank you. I hope the info helps someone/bun

We try our best and thankfully the new vets at the practice are really good. Especially with Otis. I need to update his thread later as we have had his scan results back and they are not what we hoped :( There has been so much info to take in today my brain is frazzled!
 
I can't add anymore to what has already been said. You do amazing work with your bunnies, Liz, and Steve and your vets too.
It's scary that so much can be going on under the surface that we can't even recognize. But I know you gave Lois the most wonderful life during her time with you. Hopefully that outweighs the sadness at least a little bit and I know it made a difference to her.

Thank you too for posting this information. I know it had to be very hard to do so. ((((((((((((((Huge hugs))))))))))) xxxxxxx
 
Thanks so much.

Not the easiest think I have had to write, bit emotions aside I thought it was important to share from an educational view x
 
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